What's in a name?

[Risto the Great]

Pomaks (in now Greece) were definitely Macedonians. Their choice to embrace Islam probably caused them to differentiate slightly but they have much more in common with Macedonians than many realise. I once heard the name came from the etymological roots of "pomosh" meaning help. Namely these were Islamised Macedonians who helped the Ottomans.

The video above with Pomaks talking is a clear Macedonian language albeit with Turkish numbers. Everything else is perfectly understood by Macedonians. And quite frankly, Macedonians over 100 years ago probably had to know those Turkish numbers bloody well when they were paying their pound of flesh to their Ottoman oppressors.

[johnMKD]

Pomaks (in now Greece) were definitely Macedonians. Their choice to embrace Islam probably caused them to differentiate slightly but they have much more in common with Macedonians than many realise. I once heard the name came from the etymological roots of "pomosh" meaning help. Namely these were Islamised Macedonians who helped the Ottomans.

The video above with Pomaks talking is a clear Macedonian language albeit with Turkish numbers. Everything else is perfectly understood by Macedonians. And quite frankly, Macedonians over 100 years ago probably had to know those Turkish numbers bloody well when they were paying their pound of flesh to their Ottoman oppressors.

Cheers RTG for that. Just a clarification: Macedonians have been living also outside the borders of geographical Macedonia? Or are you referring to the Pirin part? (Pomaks to the best of my knowledge lived/live around the mountain of Rhodope)

[Risto the Great]

Hi John, the Pirin part as well as around Solun.
My cousin had to stay in hospital in Solun once and was shocked to realise he could understand everything the Pomaks were saying to the guy who was convalescing in the bed next to him. He always thought they were Turks and this is the message the Greek Government tries to give when talking about many of the Muslims of Greece.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Bump. What a thread! JohnMKD walking the plank and making it out in one piece, lol. You've been an interesting addition to the membership here to say the least.

[johnMKD]

Bump. What a thread! JohnMKD walking the plank and making it out in one piece, lol. You've been an interesting addition to the membership here to say the least.

Hahah...indeed! Choosing this thread to show up maybe was rather stupid on my behalf, given my already existing feelings about myself and Macedonia. But, I learned a lot and I still do. My "special" connection to Greece will never disappear for me, but at least I can proudly say that I feel a proud Macedonian

[Bratot]

Many thanks for this info to both of you guys. Really enlightening.
I very carefully listened to what the people were saying in Greek. The woman seems to be defining herself as something like Thrakoturk, probably from the region of within Bulgaria (Thrace), with which Greece had another exchange of populations. She says that the language spoken there was very similar to "endopika", but the counting of numbers was in Turkish. I can confirm the existence of these people, as I have met quite a few. In the beginning, when I was listening to them, I thought..OK sounds like Macedonian, but it's not. When I asked them, they gave me the same answer as the lady in the video.
If somebody has more information about these people, please post.

Ah, and could somebody tell me how I can post a photo which is saved in my pc and it's not online? Cheers

Since you show interest, here is more for you John:

Greece and Turkey Exchange Two Million of their People!

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=620

[julie]

You certainly have come a very long way John

[Soldier of Macedon]

Hahah...indeed! Choosing this thread to show up maybe was rather stupid on my behalf, given my already existing feelings about myself and Macedonia. But, I learned a lot and I still do. My "special" connection to Greece will never disappear for me, but at least I can proudly say that I feel a proud Macedonian

John, that special connection that you feel with the country you were brought up in is the same feeling we have in the diaspora. The one main difference is the fact that our countries in the diaspora did not usurp parts of Macedonia and manipulate our people into believing they were something other than Macedonians. So, with your special connection to Greece there should also be a special reservation about what the state has done to our land and people.

[johnMKD]

John, that special connection that you feel with the country you were brought up in is the same feeling we have in the diaspora. The one main difference is the fact that our countries in the diaspora did not usurp parts of Macedonia and manipulate our people into believing they were something other than Macedonians. So, with your special connection to Greece there should also be a special reservation about what the state has done to our land and people.

SOM, my special connection is rather much more simpler than what you say. I've lived there from the moment that I was born until I left abroad and it was almost a 30 years period. My family, my friends and most of my relatives are still there. I was brought up there to feel as a Greek, amongst Greeks. For me, there was a difference between us and the others, but this was suppressed by the propaganda.

My special connection is to the people, first of all, and secondly to the land, to my town, to my life there. This is for me my "patris", after all. I couldn't care less about their politicians.

You say that: "So, with your special connection to Greece there should also be a special reservation about what the state has done to our land and people". I will say that I feel very sorry for what had happened back then. I guess that my ancestors were part of it, as Macedonians and they have also suffered along with the rest. My connection to the people there and to my life there doesn't change this.

[Soldier of Macedon]

I guess there is also that added factor, namely, despite 'official' terminology referring to the area as 'Greece', where you come from is still Macedonian territory.

[johnMKD]

I guess there is also that added factor, namely, despite 'official' terminology referring to the area as 'Greece', where you come from is still Macedonian territory.

I don't get it here what is it that you imply.

[Bratot]

It's about one state borders, namely Macedonians in Macedonia doesn't feel for Greece in any manner as you do, which is logical because you are not inhabitant of a Macedonian state, but the Greek state, refering to the borders only and you citizenship.

[johnMKD]

I guess there is also that added factor, namely, despite 'official' terminology referring to the area as 'Greece', where you come from is still Macedonian territory.

I don't get it here what is it that you imply.

It's about one state borders, namely Macedonians in Macedonia doesn't feel for Greece in any manner as you do, which is logical because you are not inhabitant of a Macedonian state, but the Greek state, refering to the borders only and you citizenship.

I am sorry if I am getting it wrong here but I still don't seem to get it. I was under the impression that I was amongst brothers in this forum. If you guys (SoM/Bratot) or anyone else here believes otherwise, I am kindly asking from the administrators to delete my account now.

[Soldier of Macedon]

John, you are among Macedonian brothers, but you've obviously misinterpreted what we're trying to say. What exactly do you see as offensive in what I have written? You have an added affinity to where you are from as opposed to where I am from, because, while we both live in states outside of the Macedonian state, you still reside (or did before Italy) in Macedonian territory, despite the fact that it falls within Greek borders today. Is that untrue?

[Bratot]

John,

I/we don't believe otherwise, I'm not sure what has offended you. I was trying to explain the technical issue of formal designation and building connection toward Greece.

If the whole Macedonia happened to be under Greece's borders and if most of Macedonians including me were raised with the conscience of belongining to a Greek state (through the educational system, society, enviroment), but not excluding the local ethnic Macedonian origin, it's very posibile I would carry the 'institutional identity' of being 'Greek' as part of me too.

That's my opinion, of why a person could felt connected to the institution - the State (Greece or Macedonia) where he lives.