What's in a name?

[johnMKD]

It is the same when it is said in Macedonian as 'nashe'. In the north of today's Greece, 'endopika' generally refers to the Macedonian language. People use it for different reasons, some by habit, others in spite.

Could please explain to me why a Macedonian would refer to it as "endopika" in spite? In my family, it was always "endopika" meaning only what's ours.

[Risto the Great]

Could please explain to me why a Macedonian would refer to it as "endopika" in spite? In my family, it was always "endopika" meaning only what's ours.

The fact that a Greek word is being used to describe the Macedonian language suggests something is not quite normal with the descriptor. This abnormality can come from a number of motivations ... all of them baseless.

[johnMKD]

The fact that a Greek word is being used to describe the Macedonian language suggests something is not quite normal with the descriptor. This abnormality can come from a number of motivations ... all of them baseless.

This is what's strange, you're absolutely right. When I was a child, I remember it was really strange to me that the "endopika" was something so far from Greek. Only for new adopted words, like fridge etc, they would use Greek words with Macedonian ending, e.g. "psigiut"

[osiris]

johnmkd pm me the name of your ancestral village and i can tell you what your families heritage is.

its not rocket science the insignificant amount of native greek speakers in macedonia at the turn of the 20th century is well documented.

understand this if greeces first prime minister from hydra koundouriotis could not speak greek why would there be any native greek speakers in macedonia.

[johnMKD]

if greeces first prime minister from hydra koundouriotis could not speak greek why would there be any native greek speakers in macedonia.

Could you please tell me where have you found that he could not speak Greek?
Cheers

[Risto the Great]

This is what's strange, you're absolutely right. When I was a child, I remember it was really strange to me that the "endopika" was something so far from Greek. Only for new adopted words, like fridge etc, they would use Greek words with Macedonian ending, e.g. "psigiut"

John, there are way too many inconsistencies in the Greek arguments to suggest continued Greekness from time immemorial in the region of Greece proper much less Macedonia. This typically manifests itself in absurd arguments and justifications. If there was no population transfer and no Metaxas, northern Greece would be a very different place today. You may well have had a very progressive Greece with proud Greek nationals who are ethnic Macedonians. There may have even been the rest of Macedonia banging on Greece's door looking for federation. Who knows?

Unfortunately, we have a very confused modern Greek identity that relies on myths and misinformation to prove its existence and superiority. Ethnic Macedonians who have swallowed the Greek identity have always had a chip on their shoulder and do absurd things to prove their Greekness unequivocally. This should not be confused with reality or honesty. Naturally, by the time that kind of bizarre behaviour transfers to the children, there is little for them to gauge with accuracy.

[Stojacanec]

johnmkd pm me the name of your ancestral village and i can tell you what your families heritage is.

its not rocket science the insignificant amount of native greek speakers in macedonia at the turn of the 20th century is well documented.

understand this if greeces first prime minister from hydra koundouriotis could not speak greek why would there be any native greek speakers in macedonia.

This is correct. There are many writers at the turn of the century that say the Greek language only survived along the coast line.

What you see today is a construct the the last 100 years only.

[Onur]

What you see today is a construct the the last 100 years only.

Most definitely and not even 100 years...

At the year of 1925, Greece`s population was around 2,6 million.
1,1 million of it was Anatolian immigrants and the rest of 1,5 million people consisted of Greeks, Macedonians, Albanians, Vlachs, Serbians, Gypsies, Bulgars, Urums, Turks etc......


About half of the Anatolian immigrants(Pontic, Smyrna) could only speak a language like Byzantine medieval Greek with heavy Turkish and some Armenian influences. This language was so different from current modern Greek.

Other half of them(Karamanlides, Cappadocians) didn't even know a single word in Greek, they were only speaking Turkish, using Turkish bibles and praying in Turkish at churches.




This is from the National Geographic issue of November 1925;




Its written like "they have been exiled from supposedly mother-land!!!(LOL, exiled since 600 BC?? and who exiled them for what?), but the editors of the magazine admits that they couldn't speak Greek at all. So, Greek government forced them to learn modern Greek while outlaw speaking in Turkish. No doubt, they did same thing for Macedonians too.

[Pelister]

The New Greeks do not have a legitimate claim to the territory of Macedonia they currently occupy, and they are literally theiving/stealing/appropriating the name 'Macedonia'. It never belonged to them, and it still does not belong to them.

The New Greeks are engaging in identity theft.

[Stojacanec]

Most definitely and not even 100 years...

At the year of 1925, Greece`s population was around 2,6 million.
1,1 million of it was Anatolian immigrants and the rest of 1,5 million people consisted of Greeks, Macedonians, Albanians, Vlachs, Serbians, Gypsies, Bulgars, Urums, Turks etc......




About half of the Anatolian immigrants(Pontic, Smyrna) could only speak a language like Byzantine medieval Greek with heavy Turkish and some Armenian influences. This language was so different from current modern Greek.

Other half of them(Karamanlides, Cappadocians) didn't even know a single word in Greek, they were only speaking Turkish, using Turkish bibles and praying in Turkish at churches.




This is from the National Geographic issue of November 1925;




Its written like "they have been exiled from supposedly mother-land!!!(LOL, exiled since 600 BC?? and who exiled them for what?), but the editors of the magazine admits that they couldn't speak Greek at all. So, Greek government forced them to learn modern Greek while outlaw speaking in Turkish. No doubt, they did same thing for Macedonians too.

Yeah, when I read that they finally were reunited with motherland Greece after 2500 years in excile, I was seriously wondering what the writer was smoking.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Could you please tell me where have you found that he could not speak Greek?
Cheers

Take a look at this thread:

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1111&highlight=kondouriottes

There is much you need to learn about 'the' Greeks and their emergence as a modern nation.

Could please explain to me why a Macedonian would refer to it as "endopika" in spite?

In spite of a word that already exists (nashe) in the language which is being made reference to. In spite of the fact that a name (Macedonian) for the language already exists.

[johnMKD]

Take a look at this thread:

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1111&highlight=kondouriottes

There is much you need to learn about 'the' Greeks and their emergence as a modern nation.

In spite of a word that already exists (nashe) in the language which is being made reference to. In spite of the fact that a name (Macedonian) for the language already exists.

Thanks! It's sounds very strange that Greek leaders were Albanians back in the beginning of the modern Greek state. Why would Albanians construct a Greek country? I'll definitely read the link you sent.

About the "spite", I thought you were referring to it by its other meaning, which is close to "hostility". That's why I asked why Macedonians should see their language with hostility.

[johnMKD]

Most definitely and not even 100 years...

At the year of 1925, Greece`s population was around 2,6 million.
1,1 million of it was Anatolian immigrants and the rest of 1,5 million people consisted of Greeks, Macedonians, Albanians, Vlachs, Serbians, Gypsies, Bulgars, Urums, Turks etc......


About half of the Anatolian immigrants(Pontic, Smyrna) could only speak a language like Byzantine medieval Greek with heavy Turkish and some Armenian influences. This language was so different from current modern Greek.

Other half of them(Karamanlides, Cappadocians) didn't even know a single word in Greek, they were only speaking Turkish, using Turkish bibles and praying in Turkish at churches.




This is from the National Geographic issue of November 1925;




Its written like "they have been exiled from supposedly mother-land!!!(LOL, exiled since 600 BC?? and who exiled them for what?), but the editors of the magazine admits that they couldn't speak Greek at all. So, Greek government forced them to learn modern Greek while outlaw speaking in Turkish. No doubt, they did same thing for Macedonians too.

Agreed. However, I don't think Pontic and Smyrna Greek are so much related, as you say here. The first is more as you said Byzantine/medieval Greek (maybe with the Armenian influences) while the second is clearly more close to Istanbul Greek (with Turkish influences). I've heard both of them and they are quite different from each other.

[Soldier of Macedon]

It's sounds very strange that Greek leaders were Albanians back in the beginning of the modern Greek state. Why would Albanians construct a Greek country?

Many occurences surrounding the events that led to a modern Greek state are strange and require clarity. The MTO has provided much of that clarity, and will continue to do so.

Albanians didn't construct the state, England, France and Russia did, with the Germans reigning as the 'god fathers'. The Albanians fought for a free Christian state in the face of Ottoman domination, were they to know that all of their sacrifices would lead to the pratical extermination of their historical culture in what is today known as Greece, they would have done many things differently.

Having an Albanian-speaking (non-Greek speaking) President was not an issue to the people of the new state back then - for the Greek racists today, this is anathema. They don't even want to tread on this sort of ground, yet they will try to deny existence of their neighbours without a second thought. The origins of modern Greece are far more shakier than those of modern Macedonia.

[johnMKD]

Many occurences surrounding the events that led to a modern Greek state are strange and require clarity. The MTO has provided much of that clarity, and will continue to do so.

Thanks guys, really good job.