Origins of IMRO ?

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  • Liberator of Makedonija
    Senior Member
    • Apr 2014
    • 1597

    #31
    I've seen numerous references to Tatarčev's memoirs supposedly published in 1928 (which can be found written in Macedonian here: http://www.angelfire.com/super2/vmro.../spomht03.html), though I am unsure of their authenticity as I can't find any concrete sources. Macedonian wikipedia lists the source from a Bulgarian website, who claim to have photoscanned an original copy. This supposed original copy can be found here: http://www.strumski.com/books/Spomen...0Tatarchev.pdf

    These memoirs, if legitimate, claim that the founders of the Macedonian Revolutionary Organisation did consider the idea of fighting for the union of Macedonia with Bulgaria, but generally believed the Great Powers wouldn't support it and so settled on autonomy instead - though floating that autonomy may one day lead to annexation.

    Is anyone able to confirm the legitimacy of this memoirs?
    I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

    Comment

    • Carlin
      Senior Member
      • Dec 2011
      • 3332

      #32
      I have not been able to review the memoirs but Strumski (a Bulgarian site) has the following pdf as well:


      It's in Macedonian: "Мислата за слобода кај македонскиот народ; Конституирање на Македонската револуционерна организација", публикувано в "Македонската револуционерна организација и д-р Христо Татарчев (помеѓу митот и реалноста)", Скопје, 2017 година

      I have not read it yet.

      Comment

      • Liberator of Makedonija
        Senior Member
        • Apr 2014
        • 1597

        #33
        Originally posted by Carlin15 View Post
        I have not been able to review the memoirs but Strumski (a Bulgarian site) has the following pdf as well:


        It's in Macedonian: "Мислата за слобода кај македонскиот народ; Конституирање на Македонската револуционерна организација", публикувано в "Македонската револуционерна организација и д-р Христо Татарчев (помеѓу митот и реалноста)", Скопје, 2017 година

        I have not read it yet.
        Really have to question where this site gets all these documents from and how accurate they are?
        I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

        Comment

        • Carlin
          Senior Member
          • Dec 2011
          • 3332

          #34
          Originally posted by Liberator of Makedonija View Post
          Really have to question where this site gets all these documents from and how accurate they are?
          What do you make of publishing houses (in Macedonia) making this content available in Macedonian, like the one above?

          Comment

          • Liberator of Makedonija
            Senior Member
            • Apr 2014
            • 1597

            #35
            Originally posted by Carlin15 View Post
            What do you make of publishing houses (in Macedonia) making this content available in Macedonian, like the one above?
            I imagine you're referring to the likes of the Radko Association in Ohrid and the Ivan Mihajlov centre in Bitola? Not much to say about them really, just a handful of people with no real support.
            I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

            Comment

            • sydney
              Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 390

              #36
              I have a booked called Spomeni, containing the memoirs of Tatarchev. It’s been translated from Bulgarian to Macedonian. In the foreword, the editor Ivan Katardzviev writes that Tatarchev’s memoirs were released by Ljubomir Miletich (he interviewed Tatarchev) during his lifetime and as far as it is known Tatarchev did not raise any concerns as to the context or accuracy of the content. There is also a shorter memoir included which is directly written by Tatarachev.

              Tatarchev speaks of freedom and autonomy for Macedonia in the shorter memoir published. In Miletich’s, Tatarchev declares the aim of the organisation when formed was autonomy of Macedonia with the advantage going to the Bulgarian element within. Further, he states they couldn’t consider the position of directly joining Macedonia with Bulgaria due to the backlash they would most likely face from the great powers, the aspiring neighbouring states and Turkey. Finally he states it would be easier for an autonomous Macedonia to join Bulgaria later or if this was not possible then an autonomous Macedonia could act as a tool to achieve a federation of Balkan peoples.

              Miletich’s retelling certainly pushes the ‘Bulgarian character of Macedonia’ viewpoint.

              Comment

              • Liberator of Makedonija
                Senior Member
                • Apr 2014
                • 1597

                #37
                Originally posted by sydney View Post
                I have a booked called Spomeni, containing the memoirs of Tatarchev. It’s been translated from Bulgarian to Macedonian. In the foreword, the editor Ivan Katardzviev writes that Tatarchev’s memoirs were released by Ljubomir Miletich (he interviewed Tatarchev) during his lifetime and as far as it is known Tatarchev did not raise any concerns as to the context or accuracy of the content. There is also a shorter memoir included which is directly written by Tatarachev.

                Tatarchev speaks of freedom and autonomy for Macedonia in the shorter memoir published. In Miletich’s, Tatarchev declares the aim of the organisation when formed was autonomy of Macedonia with the advantage going to the Bulgarian element within. Further, he states they couldn’t consider the position of directly joining Macedonia with Bulgaria due to the backlash they would most likely face from the great powers, the aspiring neighbouring states and Turkey. Finally he states it would be easier for an autonomous Macedonia to join Bulgaria later or if this was not possible then an autonomous Macedonia could act as a tool to achieve a federation of Balkan peoples.

                Miletich’s retelling certainly pushes the ‘Bulgarian character of Macedonia’ viewpoint.
                Yes I read the same. Are you suggesting Miletich may have added these Bulgarian elements? That wouldn't be uncharacteristic of him.
                I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

                Comment

                • Momce Makedonce
                  Member
                  • Jul 2012
                  • 562

                  #38
                  What's the accurate name to be calling the organisation? Just 'The Macedonian Revolutionary Organisation' (MRO), 'Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organisation' (IMRO/VMRO) or Internal Macedonian- Adrianople Revolutionary Organisation' (VMORO). Does it really matter? Or are they just different ways that the organisation was called over the years?
                  "The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task." Goce Delcev

                  Comment

                  • Liberator of Makedonija
                    Senior Member
                    • Apr 2014
                    • 1597

                    #39
                    Originally posted by Momce Makedonce View Post
                    What's the accurate name to be calling the organisation? Just 'The Macedonian Revolutionary Organisation' (MRO), 'Internal Macedonian Revolutionary Organisation' (IMRO/VMRO) or Internal Macedonian- Adrianople Revolutionary Organisation' (VMORO). Does it really matter? Or are they just different ways that the organisation was called over the years?
                    All different names the organisation adopted over the years, though I have noticed that simply the 'Macedonian Revolutionary Organisation' has become popular in recent years.
                    I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

                    Comment

                    • Risto the Great
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 15659

                      #40
                      I would probably trust something like EMRO (External Macedonian Revolutionary Organisation) more than anything "Internal" nowadays.
                      Risto the Great
                      MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                      "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                      Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                      Comment

                      • Momce Makedonce
                        Member
                        • Jul 2012
                        • 562

                        #41
                        Originally posted by Liberator of Makedonija View Post
                        All different names the organisation adopted over the years, though I have noticed that simply the 'Macedonian Revolutionary Organisation' has become popular in recent years.
                        Thanks for that, yeah I have seen that and IMRO/VMRO the most.

                        Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                        I would probably trust something like EMRO (External Macedonian Revolutionary Organisation) more than anything "Internal" nowadays.
                        Unfortunately that is the way it seems in the current climate.
                        "The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task." Goce Delcev

                        Comment

                        • Liberator of Makedonija
                          Senior Member
                          • Apr 2014
                          • 1597

                          #42
                          Originally posted by Momce Makedonce View Post
                          Thanks for that, yeah I have seen that and IMRO/VMRO the most.
                          I think in official Macedonian hisoriography, VMRO is used to refer to the revolutionary groups in the 1920s and 30s, and MRO is reserved for the original organisation from 1893.
                          I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

                          Comment

                          • Momce Makedonce
                            Member
                            • Jul 2012
                            • 562

                            #43
                            Originally posted by Liberator of Makedonija View Post
                            I think in official Macedonian hisoriography, VMRO is used to refer to the revolutionary groups in the 1920s and 30s, and MRO is reserved for the original organisation from 1893.
                            Yeah I feel like that's the case too.
                            "The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task." Goce Delcev

                            Comment

                            • Liberator of Makedonija
                              Senior Member
                              • Apr 2014
                              • 1597

                              #44
                              The External Representation of the MRO is often thought of as been solely located in Sofia but in Lape's The Foreign Branch of the Secret Macedonian Odrin Revolutionary Organisation, he makes known that less-official branches also operated in Athens, Constantinople and Geneva. Little is known of these branches other than their existence, which are largely cited in the memoirs of Ǵorče Petrov.
                              I know of two tragic histories in the world- that of Ireland, and that of Macedonia. Both of them have been deprived and tormented.

                              Comment

                              • Carlin
                                Senior Member
                                • Dec 2011
                                • 3332

                                #45
                                1938 US press report - Bulgaria comes down hard on Macedonians / IMRO: "Many Macedonians were arrested and large stores of arms were seized"

                                URL:

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