Albanians in Greece

[osiris]

epirot risto was right i was not referring to you i am very interested in what your personal story is and your opinions on balkan history.

[Epirot]

Epirot, I think Osiris was talking to the Macedonians more than you.

Tell me, were you not aware of places like Flambour in Greece?

Sorry Risto! I thought Osiris was refering to me.

Telling the truth, I knew that there were some Albanian villages on Fllorinė (as we pronounce it) but nothing more. My knowledge was a bit vague regarding Fllorinė and Kostur.

I saw in a historical map (produced by Chiepert, correct if i am wrong) showed some Albanian villages or Albanian speaking villages in Fllorina.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Epirus_ethnic_(Greek_point_of_view).JPG

I did not knew also that our famous patriot Papa Kristo Negovani (who was killed by '''Greek''' Patriarchate agents) was from there.

http://sq.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papa_Kristo_Negovani

Btw, can I know why did you ask me for Flambour (Negovan)?

[Risto the Great]

I did not attack personally nobody!
I respect all opinions here though some of them I oppose.
Until now I am surprised because all of Macedonian members can discuss normally as civilizied people, a thing that I never met on ''Greek'' side. I debated with them more than 2 years. It is very hard to find a single '''Greek''' which can keep conversation without irritable state, nervous and insultings.

Epirot, I think Osiris was talking to the Macedonians more than you.

Tell me, were you not aware of places like Flambour in Greece?

[Epirot]

Epirot, Where do you originate from??

Mother Tereza is born in Skopje and if you know anything about Skopje she was born in Vlashko Maalo which is where Ulica Makedonija is (City Square of Skopje) There has never been up till this day any Albanians that lived there all the Albanians in Skopje are from Chajir onwards (Across the Vardar River). Mother Tereza is a Vlach with roots from Albania, her father was Nikola Bojadziu a typical Vlach name and her mother was a Vlach from Albania. Albania is a strong hold for the Vlachs, Mihajlo Pupin the man who invented long distance calls was a Vlach from Vevchani (Born in Vojvodina) however his parents emigrated from Albania to Vevchani (Strusko) they were Vlachs. So Mother Teresa is as Albanian as Mihajlo Pupin, you should look around and see how many Vlachs are there in Albania you'll be surprised.

l]

To be honest, I never heard of any Catholic Vlach in Albania.
Prolet I don't understand why is problem nationality of Mother Teresa. Mother Teresa spent his life in supporting poor people and spreading peace message to all people of the world. Mother Teresa did not make any difference of people. For her all of people were the same and equal to the God.

Everything may be likely. But what I consider as most important is how Mother Teresa herself perceived her origin and nationality.

Here is an interesting article which speaks volume:

By blood, I am Albanian. By citizenship, an Indian. By faith, I am a Catholic nun. As to my calling, I belong to the world. As to my heart, I belong entirely to the Heart of Jesus. ”Small of stature, rocklike in faith, Mother Teresa of Calcutta was entrusted with the mission of proclaiming God’s thirsting love for humanity, especially for the poorest of the poor. “God still loves the world and He sends you and me to be His love and His compassion to the poor.” She was a soul filled with the light of Christ, on fire with love for Him and burning with one desire: “to quench His thirst for love and for souls.”

http://www.vatican.va/news_services/...teresa_en.html

I brought up this article not from any Albanian site or influenced by the Albanians but it is from Vatican site.

Mother Teresa (26 August 1910 – 5 September 1997), born Agnesė Gonxhe Bojaxhiu (pronounced [aɡˈnɛs ˈɡɔndʒe bɔjaˈdʒiu]), was an Albanian[2][3] Catholic nun with Indian citizenship[4] who founded the Missionaries of Charity in Kolkata (Calcutta), India in 1950. For over 45 years she ministered to the poor, sick, orphaned, and dying, while guiding the Missionaries of Charity's expansion, first throughout India and then in other countries. Following her death she was beatified by Pope John Paul II and given the title Blessed Teresa of Calcutta.[5][6]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_Teresa#cite_note-2

Spink, Kathryn (1997). Mother Teresa: A Complete Authorized Biography. New York. HarperCollins, pp.16. ISBN 0-06-250825-3.

From my side I call finished our dispute over Mother Teresa's nationality. Not because I give up but the topic here isn't concerned about Teresa's nationality, is not?

P.S: As for your question I descent from Kėrēova (old Uscana) but now I live in Prishtinė.

[Epirot]

so can we keep this thread free of personal attacks and if we dont not reach a common conclusion simply and civilly agree to disagree

I did not attack personally nobody!
I respect all opinions here though some of them I oppose.
Until now I am surprised because all of Macedonian members can discuss normally as civilizied people, a thing that I never met on ''Greek'' side. I debated with them more than 2 years. It is very hard to find a single '''Greek''' which can keep conversation without irritable state, nervous and insultings.

[Prolet]

Mastika ... Mother Teresa never said that she was of Vlach (or Aromunian) descent. She felt herself as Albanian not as Aromunian.

'Gonxhe' is an Albanian name denoting rosebud, whereas 'Bojaxhiu' is a common surname of Albanian families of Prizren.

Epirot, Where do you originate from??

Mother Tereza is born in Skopje and if you know anything about Skopje she was born in Vlashko Maalo which is where Ulica Makedonija is (City Square of Skopje) There has never been up till this day any Albanians that lived there all the Albanians in Skopje are from Chajir onwards (Across the Vardar River). Mother Tereza is a Vlach with roots from Albania, her father was Nikola Bojadziu a typical Vlach name and her mother was a Vlach from Albania. Albania is a strong hold for the Vlachs, Mihajlo Pupin the man who invented long distance calls was a Vlach from Vevchani (Born in Vojvodina) however his parents emigrated from Albania to Vevchani (Strusko) they were Vlachs. So Mother Teresa is as Albanian as Mihajlo Pupin, you should look around and see how many Vlachs are there in Albania you'll be surprised.

YouTube - Pictures with important aromanians

[osiris]

so can we keep this thread free of personal attacks and if we dont not reach a common conclusion simply and civilly agree to disagree

[Mastika]

Mastika ... Mother Teresa never said that she was of Vlach (or Aromunian) descent. She felt herself as Albanian not as Aromunian.

'Gonxhe' is an Albanian name denoting rosebud, whereas 'Bojaxhiu' is a common surname of Albanian families of Prizren.

My understanding is that her grandparents on her fathers side were originally from Moscopole (Aromanian city). Her father was from Shkoder and so was her mother (Albanian woman). She would have grown up speaking Albanian at home and thus felt herself to be Albanian, even if she was half-Aromanian.

As for surnames, dont forget 100 years ago surnames were anything but definitive.

[julie]

Epirot, You provide the parallel that Mother Teresa was born in Macedonia.
I was born in Australia.

I am an Australian Macedonian .
She was a Macedonian citizen.

[Epirot]

Her father was an Aromanian from Shkoder, Albania. He was involved with the Vlach association in Skopje after the family moved there. It is unlikely that he was in VMRO, but you never know.

Mastika ... Mother Teresa never said that she was of Vlach (or Aromunian) descent. She felt herself as Albanian not as Aromunian.

'Gonxhe' is an Albanian name denoting rosebud, whereas 'Bojaxhiu' is a common surname of Albanian families of Prizren.

[Mastika]

I think that Albanians and Macedonians will and should have a future together, given the many commonalities between our countries. HOWEVER, this can only happen when Albanians stop wanting to destroy Macedonia, and only when the Macedonian minority in Albania is granted full minority rights.

[Mastika]

i have heard that mother theresa's father was in vmro can anyone throw some light on this subject.

Her father was an Aromanian from Shkoder, Albania. He was involved with the Vlach association in Skopje after the family moved there. It is unlikely that he was in VMRO, but you never know.

[Epirot]

Here I found something that may be interesting for the topic:

From among the various nationalities who lived in this part of Macedonia (Macedonian's, Vlach's and some Albanian's), a Republican Council was elected with 60 members - 20 representatives of each nationality. The Council chose an executive body, called the Provisional Government, with six members (2 from each nationality), whose duty it was to ensure law and order and see to such things as supplies, finances, and medical care. The "Krusevo Manifesto" was published. Written by Nikola Karev himself, it outlined the aims of the Uprising, calling upon the population to join forces with the government in the struggle against tyranny and enslavement to attain freedom and independence.

For further reading:

http://www.cybermacedonia.com/iliupris.html

So, even Macedonian sites recognize Albanian contribution on this glorious struggle...so attempts to deny Albanian contribution (like BBS did) are not fair!

[Epirot]

Firstly most of the albanians that collaberated with the macedonians where tosks, from southern albania, north west aegean macedonia or south west vardar macedonia. They where also christian.

The trouble makers in the republic today are ghegs and muslims from the north. Ghegs have always been a bit more violent and backwards, even when compared to their "tosk brothers".

And secondly and most most importantly, the macedonian celebration of Krusevo has nothing to do with albanians - hence why they dont care about it, celebrate it or probably even know about it. Albanians celebrate the Leuge of Prizren more so then the Illenden uprising. For those who dont know the Leuge of Prizren was a movement for greater albania in ottoman times.

Conclusion: Dont believe the lie.

Let straight things in order!
The League of Prizren wasn't attempt to create 'Great Albania'. The League of Prizren aimed to protect all Albanian lands from partition decided in Congress of Berlin. Saying that League of Prizren was attempt for Greater Albania is equal with saying that Kruesheva Struggle was aimed for Great Macedonia.

For the sake of debate, can you elaborate better what do you mean with 'Great Albania'? The 'Greater Albania' is nothing else but a fallacious term invented by Serbia, Bulgaria and Greece in order to hide their expansionist nature. It has Great Bulgaria because it encompassing non-Bulgarian lands like: Macedonia of Pirin and Rhodope Mountains - region of more than 900,000 Turks. Right! It has Great Serbia because it occupied itself non-Serbian land like Vojvodina (homeland of thousands of ethnic Hungarians), Sandjak (homeland of thousands of Bosniaks and Albanians), Presheva Valley (150,000 Albanians peopled there), Timoko Valley (50,000 Rumanians do live there). It has also Great Greece because all of its northern and eastern parts are in fact, non-greek lands occupied by military force (Epirus a.k.a.Chameria, Aegean Macedonia, Thrace, Aegean Islands, etc).

If you persist that it has Great Albania, then it has also Great Macedonia. How do you feel when '''Greeks''' accused you of irredentical behaviours in order to make 'Great Macedonia'.
Finally, 'Great Macedonia' or 'Great Albania' are fictive terms and we shouldn't waste our time by talking of fallacious terms, should we?

If Albanians do not celebrate anniversaries of Kruesheva Repuplic that does not mean that Albanians had not contribute in this struggle. Two years ago, I've a brief visit in Krusheva muzeums. There I saw many old photos of both Albanian and Macedonian fighters. Below of each picture were names of revolutionaries, and although they were in Cirilic alphabet I found many of them Albanian.

[Big Bad Sven]

This is the first I have ever heard that Albanians activly took part in the Macedonian Uprising, if this is indeed true why today in the Republic do Albanians then literally throw dirty at the National Day.

Firstly most of the albanians that collaberated with the macedonians where tosks, from southern albania, north west aegean macedonia or south west vardar macedonia. They where also christian.

The trouble makers in the republic today are ghegs and muslims from the north. Ghegs have always been a bit more violent and backwards, even when compared to their "tosk brothers".

And secondly and most most importantly, the macedonian celebration of Krusevo has nothing to do with albanians - hence why they dont care about it, celebrate it or probably even know about it. Albanians celebrate the Leuge of Prizren more so then the Illenden uprising. For those who dont know the Leuge of Prizren was a movement for greater albania in ottoman times.

Conclusion: Dont believe the lie.