The Existence of a Macedonian minority in Bulgaria

[osiris]

the real disgrace iis how some nations in the balkans still live with a fascist mind set and refuse to allow minority rights.

can you provide me with a link to the veracity of the name bulgaria to describe a nation where no bulgars live anymore.

[Bill77]

Guys, you are not looking for any truth. You had decided what the truth is and then proceeded to finding evidence-it's just not how things are done, that's not a scientific approach..

Dick Head, why would we need to look for truth when we already have it. Another thing Einstein, obviously we would need to find evidance so we can stick it up fuck wits like yourself. What is wrong with Backing our claims with evidance. You cunts must try it one day.

You are free to explain to the people in Blagoevgrad that they are Macedonians (ethnically not geographically), but prepare yourselves for the response, they are not famous for being gentle, at least among my friends who lived there. .

You have friends???? Well they must be dick heads like your self. And racist ones at that by the sounds of things. And why in the world would we want to go and ask Gypsi's like you and your mates. Would be like talking to a brick wall.

[julie]

No Bill, they cant do that sweet because then they cant say Alexander the Great was Bulgarian - they also try and steal our history
Oh yes and Makumastara before you hop onto your high horsr and profess to have the honour and integrity which is a load of bullshit , my BULGARIAN uncle, yes that is right Bulgarian, he was married to my mum's sister , Bog da go prosti, and he even admitted to the cultural genocide of the Macedonians in pirin as well, and the fact that Bulgarians are vulgar in stealing Macedonian history

DONT YOU DARE ever imply Macedonians have no honour or integrity you Vulgarian

[kate]

OMG, I can't believe you deleted the link!!!! Propagandaaa?!! HAHA! The book was written by a macedonian, secreatary of the macedonian council in Switzerland 1919, the book wasn't even published in Bulgaria. Anyway i know now that I won't be allowed to post what for me is evidence of the history of Macedonia. Fair enough i thought it would be interesting. The main reason I joined is because I read some very ineteresting posts about this so called" macedonian minority" in Bulgaria and that people here want to know more about it. Well there you go, you can ask anything. I was born in Razlog and this is the place (if of course you know history and facts) was in the heart of the Ilinden - Preobrajen riots and gave a lot for the liberation of the macedonian region. So I was born there, my parents were born there and their parents and so on. I guess that makes me "Macedonian" and part of that unrecognised minority that has suffered so much in Bulgaria. Go on ask!!!

[Daskalot]

OMG, I can't believe you deleted the link!!!! Propagandaaa?!! HAHA! The book was written by a macedonian, secreatary of the macedonian council in Switzerland 1919, the book wasn't even published in Bulgaria. Anyway i know now that I won't be allowed to post what for me is evidence of the history of Macedonia. Fair enough i thought it would be interesting. The main reason I joined is because I read some very ineteresting posts about this so called" macedonian minority" in Bulgaria and that people here want to know more about it. Well there you go, you can ask anything. I was born in Razlog and this is the place (if of course you know history and facts) was in the heart of the Ilinden - Preobrajen riots and gave a lot for the liberation of the macedonian region. So I was born there, my parents were born there and their parents and so on. I guess that makes me "Macedonian" and part of that unrecognised minority that has suffered so much in Bulgaria. Go on ask!!!

Do not be so surprised, your only agenda with the link was to claim us Macedonians as Bulgarians or you had another agenda with the link?

Do you consider yourself an ethnic Bulgarian?

[makedonin]

Haha, history and facts you say? Just for starters, Ilinden (preobrazhenie, no such thing) had it's center in western Macedonia, today in R. of Macedonia. Razlog was center of the Kresna-Razlog uprising which has taken place some 15 years erlier than Ilinden uprising. Get your facts streigt before writing jokes like that!

[kate]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilinden-Preobrazhenie_Uprising

Read this Razlog did take part in Ilindensko - Preobrajensko uprising. And yes thank you for adding the Kresna - Razlog one. You'll as well understand why I called it Ilindensko - Preobrajensko.

[julie]

Kate, wikepedia is not a factual source of information, it is not ackowledged as a factual reference tool in Australian universities because anyone can change the "facts" posted on it

[kate]

Look man, I don't really care if you're macedonians or Bulgarians. I don't mind Macedonia and it's existance. What I can't understand is the hatred against bulgarians and very weired interpretation of historical facts. Why can't you just build your history from now on and live the past where it belongs. Yes there was Alexander, but after him so many changes happened to the region, so many tribes came and went. Acoording to the counts of Macedonia in the early 1900's the ethnical elements in Macedonian region were Bulgarians, Turks, Greeks and Albanians. That is in all publications during this period. It is your right now to establish your nation after being granted the right to have yout own country and I support that. But it is not the way to do it, by false interpretations and hatred towards other nation, who have as much right as you to exist.

[kate]

Well dear if I try to post anth else it would be deleted. Right?!! According to administrator I am spreading Bulgarian propaganda. Go figure! But trsut me the article can be trusted .

[julie]

Kate you can spout your bullshit as much as you want, you are a brainwashed person that believes in the sense and logic of wikepedia, I really dont care what you say you Vulgarians together with the Hellass and Yugos can try and justify the cultural and ethnic genocide of my Macedonian people, but it wont distinguish the flame in the diaspora. You pathetic excuses for human beings can dribble your verbal diarhea and bullshit as much as you like, you have NOTHING and your fear on Pirin Macedonia rightfully being unified with the rest of m beautiful country is what will forever have you spout your garbage

ok DEAR, and NO we wont have your indoctrinaring bullshit garbage links posted on this forum which is the MACEDONIA TRUTH

[Daskalot]

Kate please respond to this post:


Taken from “From Recognition to Repudiation: Bulgarian Attitudes on the Macedonian Question” by Vanǵa Čašule, Kultura, 1972.

[Makemustara]

Daskale, greetings!
Obviously Kate will not be able to respond but I will try to. The link I presented clearly states that there were tens of thousands of people killed by the comunists + armed resistance, because they refused to accept Macedonian identity. It will become even clearer when more documents on the red terror are out of secrecy, but it takes more political will and less agents in the government.
julie, what geopolitical turn will be needed for the ancient Macedonian lads to be unified. Second, Alexander was quite far from being Bulgarian.
Why are there no debates between Bulgarian, Macedonian,Greek and may be western historians on your claims?OMO Ilinden were struggling to find one more signature from the minorities and don't worry-peaceful separatism is acceptable in Europe so don't fear any repressions. Btw, Bulgaria is not looking to unify with a large Albanian minority, either. Speaking of Albanians I encountered one, driver in the UK, he trully beleaved that half the population of MK are his countrymates and his spoken Bulgarian was quite good in fact (we are not really different for him).
I want to make it right-I don't generalize on Macedonians, their honor or other moral strengths, my apologies if you got it that way. The world is more than black and white.

in fact there are more macedonians in bulgaria then ethnic bulgars

a nation where no bulgars live anymore

Well, Bulgarians live there.You are confusing historical terms, in English "Bulgars" is predominantly used to describe one of the components of the ethnogenesis of modern Bulgarian nation, although I've seen variations.
Bill77, how about a more dialectic approach? Also, I'll put it simple-FIRST you gather facts NEXT you analyse them and build a theory, THEN you test the theory, and provide credability trough using other methods/comparing with other theories and facts.
And I think I didn't use offensive language, so please...

[Orfej]

Daskale, greetings!
Obviously Kate will not be able to respond but I will try to. The link I presented clearly states that there were tens of thousands of people killed by the comunists + armed resistance, because they refused to accept Macedonian identity.

Now now Makemustara, you speak about a scientific approach but you present us with an interview from a Bulgarian who we can easily dismiss as subjective and intended to feed the Bulgarian public with their national myth.

http://dariknews.bg/view_article.php?article_id=147280

Are you aware that there are people who lived in Pirin Macedonia at the time who are giving interviews completely opposite to these? For them there was no ``forced macedonization`` , there was a situation where for the first time the population could express their identity without being feared of repression from the Bulgarian atrocities. And that situation was reflected in the censuses in 1946 and 1956 respectively.

It will become even clearer when more documents on the red terror are out of secrecy, but it takes more political will and less agents in the government.

We are anxiously waiting for all those ``documents`` that you speak off!! I’m somehow afraid that we are just going to see parody of documents like the one that already circulates the internet( allegedly from the Blagoevgrad archive)

OMO Ilinden were struggling to find one more signature from the minorities and don't worry-peaceful separatism is acceptable in Europe so don't fear any repressions.

Well then why can’t they be registered as a party? Maybe we should play a game, what excuse will the Bulgarian state think of to stop their registration? I bet on `` their shoes were too dirty, we can’t allow guys with such dirty shoes to be considered as politicians``

And what about the Macedonian minority? Why doesn’t your country recognize it?

[Makemustara]

Are you aware that there are people who lived in Pirin Macedonia at the time who are giving interviews completely opposite to these?

No. But the large numbers from the census have disappeared somewhere.

Bulgarian atrocities

I already mentioned them, but they were conducted from Bulgarians to Bulgarians.

And what about the Macedonian minority? Why doesn’t your country recognize it?

Because, that country sees no logic in the historical and cultural facts presented by that minority.
Where is the historical dispute on the question? One can be easily organised on neutral turf if there is will from the respective institutions.