The Greek "province" of Macedonia, fact or fiction?

[Bill77]

Tell you what. Next time you visit macedonia pls make a brief stop in thessaloniki. Mention where your from in a cafeteria or taverna. Then let me know how much of racists we really are.

yeh, like the time i called the operator from a public pay phone. i asked "zborvash makedonski?" (can you speak Macedonian?) her reply was "ohi" what a ridiculous racist nation. hehehehe

And the time i asked a lady at the petral station "zboruvash Makedonski" "do you speak Macedonian?" so i can get directions, the husband of the lady asked her something in Greek. and she replied with one word i could only make out which was "Bulgari" or something along those lines. Mind you, she aparently did not know or heard of Florina. lol mabe i should have asked for Lerin.

Both these incidents were in solun.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Tell you what. Next time you visit macedonia pls make a brief stop in thessaloniki. Mention where your from in a cafeteria or taverna. Then let me know how much of racists we really are.

Haha, you're kidding, right?

SOM the problem is that the word " macedonia " has meanings that reach to the time of antiquity. So where do we start ? Do we start with the macedonia of the middle age period ? Do we start with the macedonia of antiquity ? Do we start with macedonia of the 90's ?

If other people wished to play the stupid games that Greek racists do, then all of the Orthodox Christians in Europe and Asia would be asking for your state to not be referred to as 'Greece' as the term 'Greek' in western terminology has represented the Eastern Orthodox Church for about a millenia, as far as Russia the Orthodox Church was known as the 'Greek Church'. The problem exists only in the heads of deluded Greek racists. The rest of the (normal) world understands reality, my people are the only people in the world who self-identify their ethnicity, nation, language and culture as Macedonian.

What does your side claim, a geographical description in which 90% of the so-called Greeks have a history of less than 90 years in Macedonia?

Yet again, I am asking myself, why, why I am wasting my time explaining something to someone like you who can't help but contradict himself in every second post, someone who claims he has no problem with respecting my Macedonian people and Macedonian identity on the one hand, then talks about a "problem" with reference to antiquity and the middle ages on the other.

You're wasting my time, we both know it. You think that if you come here pretending to be a so-called moderate that you will slip under the radar with your contradictions and discrimination against my people.

You come here talking about "bilingual" Macedonians but when the same suggestion is made about Greeks you cannot accept it. You're a propagandist tool.

Let me put it to you this way:

Ethnicity: You are Greek, I am Macedonian.
Nation: You are Greek, I am Macedonian.
Language: You are Greek, I am Macedonian.
Culture: You are Greek, I am Macedonian.
Geography: You are Macedonian in the Greek state, I am Macedonian in the Macedonian state.

How exactly are you anywhere near Macedonian as I am, apart from the region your fleeing ancestors may have been settled in 90 years ago? This should narrow down your perceptions to a tee, and this way we can clarify exactly where you stand.

[Soldier of Macedon]

So much for your examples of objectivity by the way. I was so looking forward to seeing your posts on other forums where you have told your fellow Greeks about respecting the Macedonian people and Macedonian identity......nah, I wasn't really, because I knew you were lying the minute you wrote it.

Where is the ONE Greek forum that isn't racist against the Macedonians? Come on, let's see if Greece has went beyond the 1890's let alone the 1990's.

[Alpha]

yeh, like the time i called the operator from a public pay phone. i asked "zborvash makedonski?" (can you speak Macedonian?) her reply was "ohi" what a ridiculous racist nation. hehehehe

And the time i asked a lady at the petral station "zboruvash Makedonski" "do you speak Macedonian?" so i can get directions, the husband of the lady asked her something in Greek. and she replied with one word i could only make out which was "Bulgari" or something along those lines. Mind you, she aparently did not know or heard of Florina. lol mabe i should have asked for Lerin.

Both these incidents were in solun.

I meant to tell them in english....Dont expect them to know the language.

[Alpha]

So much for your examples of objectivity by the way. I was so looking forward to seeing your posts on other forums where you have told your fellow Greeks about respecting the Macedonian people and Macedonian identity......nah, I wasn't really, because I knew you were lying the minute you wrote it.

Where is the ONE Greek forum that isn't racist against the Macedonians? Come on, let's see if Greece has went beyond the 1890's let alone the 1990's.

SOM, I did express my opinion. What do you want me to do ? Go looking for the specific posts that i stated so in other forums ?
Also, im sure you know that these forums are often frequented by the diaspora. It is also known that the diaspora usually hold hardline ideas in comparison to their countrymen in their respective countries.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Alpha, show me a forum from Greece then, where you have done it?

Or, just tell the truth and admit you have never done it, and you were trying to make a certain impression on readers that has now been completely exposed.

Most Greek racists would consider me a "hardline" Macedonian - Yet this hardline Macedonian has no problem with respecting the way you self-identify as Greeks, I guess I can't be that hardline then.

IS THERE NOT ONE GREEK FORUM WHERE MEMBERS RESPECT THE SELF-IDENTITY OF THE MACEDONIAN PEOPLE?

[Bill77]

I meant to tell them in english....Dont expect them to know the language.

Hey dick Head, look at my first example, i spoke in macedonian if she can speak my language. She understood me alright to answer "OHI" But the racist slut wants nothing to do with my language. Any way i no longer will respond to Brainless idiots and will finaly leave you with this message.

YouTube - Hit the road jack Ray Charles (lyrics)

[Alpha]

Haha, you're kidding, right?

No, Im not kidding.

The rest of the (normal) world understands reality, my people are the only people in the world who self-identify their ethnicity, nation, language and culture as Macedonian.

I disagree, and that is the core problem.

What does your side claim, a geographical description in which 90% of the so-called Greeks have a history of less than 90 years in Macedonia?

90% ? No...its not 90%.

Yet again, I am asking myself, why, why I am wasting my time explaining something to someone like you who can't help but contradict himself in every second post, someone who claims he has no problem with respecting my Macedonian people and Macedonian identity on the one hand, then talks about a "problem" with reference to antiquity and the middle ages on the other.

Im discussing the obvious with you. Its no secret that the word macedonia is in essence a large part of greek history. You may not like that fact...but it is a fact. THAT DOES NOT MEAN I DISREGARD MACEDONIANS SUCH AS YOURSELF THAT DEFINES THEMSELVES AND COUNTRYMEN THE SAME. So, im am not contradicting myself.

You're wasting my time, we both know it. You think that if you come here pretending to be a so-called moderate that you will slip under the radar with your contradictions and discrimination against my people.

Geezus SOM. For the millionth time...I harbor no bad feelings nor do I discriminate.

You come here talking about "bilingual" Macedonians but when the same suggestion is made about Greeks you cannot accept it. You're a propagandist tool.

When ? I said their are greeks in albania that speak both albanian and greek. I dont understand what your trying to say.

Let me put it to you this way:

Ethnicity: You are Greek, I am Macedonian.
Nation: You are Greek, I am Macedonian.
Language: You are Greek, I am Macedonian.
Culture: You are Greek, I am Macedonian.
Geography: You are Macedonian in the Greek state, I am Macedonian in the Macedonian state.

I am well aware of how you see things.

How exactly are you anywhere near Macedonian as I am, apart from the region your fleeing ancestors may have been settled in 90 years ago? This should narrow down your perceptions to a tee, and this way we can clarify exactly where you stand.

Me personally ? Im not. But I have family that is. And nobody can tell them they are not. They have land and ancestry from that region just as long if not longer than most of macedonians here.
Also, pls note that greeks here still follow the city state mentality. You ask someone from where they are from and they will tell you: Macedonia, Pelloponiso, Aigio, ect....

Same as a german that has bavarian origin. This is how we relate. Collectivly speaking though.. macedonian history is a part of greek history AS WELL AS YOURS. Im sure you heard that all before, im just answering your question though.

[Alpha]

Hey dick Head, look at my first example, i spoke in macedonian if she can speak my language. She understood me alright to answer "OHI" But the racist slut wants nothing to do with my language. Any way i no longer will respond to Brainless idiots and will finaly leave you with this message.

YouTube - Hit the road jack Ray Charles (lyrics)

dont think that was called for...but anyway.

[Alpha]

Alpha, show me a forum from Greece then, where you have done it?

Or, just tell the truth and admit you have never done it, and you were trying to make a certain impression on readers that has now been completely exposed.

Most Greek racists would consider me a "hardline" Macedonian - Yet this hardline Macedonian has no problem with respecting the way you self-identify as Greeks, I guess I can't be that hardline then.

IS THERE NOT ONE GREEK FORUM WHERE MEMBERS RESPECT THE SELF-IDENTITY OF THE MACEDONIAN PEOPLE?

The same can be said the other way around.

Listen, i dont know why your so openly hostile and trying to paint a picture of something im not. I never posted anything here that was from another forum or anything that can be considered as greek propaganda.

[makedonin]

All the shits you fake comes back to haunt you

No compromise, my heart won't pump the other way

[Soldier of Macedon]

.....my people are the only people in the world who self-identify their ethnicity, nation, language and culture as Macedonian.

I disagree, and that is the core problem.

What do exactly in the above do you disagree with? What exactly do you disagree with in the below;

Ethnicity: You are Greek, I am Macedonian.
Nation: You are Greek, I am Macedonian.
Language: You are Greek, I am Macedonian.
Culture: You are Greek, I am Macedonian.
Geography: You are Macedonian in the Greek state, I am Macedonian in the Macedonian state.

Is your ethnicity, nation, culture or language called Macedonian?

Should we refer to Pavlos Melas' view of what the "Makedonika" language was?

I said their are greeks in albania that speak both albanian and greek.

And I said there are Greeks today who speak Macedonian, Vlach and Albanian as an ancestral tongue with family and friends. Do you disagree? If not, then Greeks are a quadra-lingual nation. If you do disagree, then you are contradicting your earlier statement that Macedonians can be bilingual. If it is good for one, it is good for the other. In fact, I am being lenient in my comparison, because we don't have people who were Albanians until yesterday that identify as Macedonians today in an ethno-linguistic sense. Whereas you guys, well, don't even get me started, but, for fun, I will throw one at you, if your first president Kondouriotes could come back from the dead, in what language would you speak to him? Greek? Please, say Greek.....

They have land and ancestry from that region just as long if not longer than most of macedonians here.

Yeah, ok. There are Albanians in Athens from the Middle Ages, much longer than most of the later settlers that arrived after the creation of a 'Hellenic' kingdom. Much longer than your Asian ancestors arrived in Europe during the 1920's. You want to dictate terms to the Macedonians that you are not willing to accept for your own people, why are you so pathetically racist? Who made you this way?

Also, pls note that greeks here still follow the city state mentality.

That has to be the most idiotic thing I have heard from you thus far. Can you show me examples of this city-state mentality during Ottoman times? I am curious. City-state mentality, lol.

macedonian history is a part of greek history AS WELL AS YOURS.

Yeah I know, murdering whole populations and selling the rest as slaves, destroying the ancient liberties and democracy of the Hellenes, placing garrisons all over the Hellenic city-states and bringing the Hellenes to their knees, accusations from Hellenes about the barbarians from Macedonia who are destroying their way of life, rebellions and celebrations at the news of Phillip's and Alexander's deaths, etc, it is such a glorious part of ANCIENT history in the Hellenic city-states. Unfortunately for you and your recently conjured city-state theory of modern Greece, the Macedonian Kingdom was NEVER A CITY-STATE.

IS THERE NOT ONE GREEK FORUM WHERE MEMBERS RESPECT THE SELF-IDENTITY OF THE MACEDONIAN PEOPLE?

The same can be said the other way around.

No, it can't actually. As I said before, I am a Macedonian who is considered "hardline" by Greek racists, yet I still call your people Greek. Show me a "hardline" Greek that calls my people Macedonians? Can you? Of course not. They don't exist, they only pretend as you do when in a situation where normality reigns.

Your every attempt to dilute the Macedonian identity by claiming that it has to be "shared" by multiple people is a stab at my people. Keep going, I can see that you have almost run your course (again) here.

[Soldier of Macedon]

I want to reiterate:

Your every attempt to dilute the Macedonian identity by claiming that it has to be "shared" by multiple people is a stab at my people. Keep going, I can see that you have almost run your course (again) here.


Come on Alpha, try and dilute the Macedonian identity again, I dare you to.

[Alpha]

What do exactly in the above do you disagree with? What exactly do you disagree with in the below;

Is your ethnicity, nation, culture or language called Macedonian?

Should we refer to Pavlos Melas' view of what the "Makedonika" language was?


And I said there are Greeks today who speak Macedonian, Vlach and Albanian as an ancestral tongue with family and friends. Do you disagree? If not, then Greeks are a quadra-lingual nation. If you do disagree, then you are contradicting your earlier statement that Macedonians can be bilingual. If it is good for one, it is good for the other. In fact, I am being lenient in my comparison, because we don't have people who were Albanians until yesterday that identify as Macedonians today in an ethno-linguistic sense. Whereas you guys, well, don't even get me started, but, for fun, I will throw one at you, if your first president Kondouriotes could come back from the dead, in what language would you speak to him? Greek? Please, say Greek.....

Yeah, ok. There are Albanians in Athens from the Middle Ages, much longer than most of the later settlers that arrived after the creation of a 'Hellenic' kingdom. Much longer than your Asian ancestors arrived in Europe during the 1920's. You want to dictate terms to the Macedonians that you are not willing to accept for your own people, why are you so pathetically racist? Who made you this way?

That has to be the most idiotic thing I have heard from you thus far. Can you show me examples of this city-state mentality during Ottoman times? I am curious. City-state mentality, lol.

Yeah I know, murdering whole populations and selling the rest as slaves, destroying the ancient liberties and democracy of the Hellenes, placing garrisons all over the Hellenic city-states and bringing the Hellenes to their knees, accusations from Hellenes about the barbarians from Macedonia who are destroying their way of life, rebellions and celebrations at the news of Phillip's and Alexander's deaths, etc, it is such a glorious part of ANCIENT history in the Hellenic city-states. Unfortunately for you and your recently conjured city-state theory of modern Greece, the Macedonian Kingdom was NEVER A CITY-STATE.

No, it can't actually. As I said before, I am a Macedonian who is considered "hardline" by Greek racists, yet I still call your people Greek. Show me a "hardline" Greek that calls my people Macedonians? Can you? Of course not. They don't exist, they only pretend as you do when in a situation where normality reigns.

Your every attempt to dilute the Macedonian identity by claiming that it has to be "shared" by multiple people is a stab at my people. Keep going, I can see that you have almost run your course (again) here.

forget it...this is pointless.

bottom line SOM is that nobody is trying to dilute your identity. Your kneejerk reaction to propagandic beliefs is really regrettable.

Just for your info...Sparta was another kingdom in Classical Greece.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Yes, pointless to backtrack on all of your misjudgements and lies in the last 12 hours, or probably now, after realising how you have wasted my time in the exact same way you did with your previously banned user ID, you can probably see how you will end up like you did last time. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with you being here so long as you respect the Macedonians and don't endlessly harp on about how we should share our identity with Greeks just because some of them happen to live in geographical Macedonia. I really hope you can see the stupidity in your argument one day.

Sparta was still considered a Hellenic city-state, Macedonia never was....just for your information.

Now that we all know where we stand, I advise you not to denigrate, dilute or deny the Macedonian people and their identity. If you want to hold on to a geographic identity, good for you, you will still be ethnically and linguistically Greek, and I will still be ethnically and linguistically (and geographically) Macedonian.

It is untrue and hence pointless to argue otherwise.