I can't tell the difference. Can You?
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It must be confessed that, though at the beginning of this century the Greeks showed more energy than any other Christian race, those who now remain in Turkey (except the islanders) are not remarkable for physical vigour or military capacity. This is, no doubt, partly due to the fact that the people who revolted against Mahmud were largely Hellenised Vlachs and Albanians, who, under the modern system, would not be regarded as Greeks.
Turkey in Europe, page 299 by Sir Charles EliotSlayer Of The Modern "greek" Myth!!!
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Name me a genuine greek of the 19th century they are all albanains,vlachs,turks or slavs."Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
GOTSE DELCEV
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Originally posted by George S. View PostName me a genuine greek of the 19th century they are all albanains,vlachs,turks or slavs."The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task."__________________Gotse Delchev
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Originally posted by Wanderer View PostThere are many.But automatically,you will discover a strange story about them,being Albanian or Vlach
"Clearly,the modern Greek must be of very mixed blood.""The moral revolution - the revolution of the mind, heart and soul of an enslaved people, is our greatest task."__________________Gotse Delchev
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Wanderer, I don't fully agree with that statement made by GeorgeS, I wouldn't say all Greeks, but I would say an extremely significant majority were. However, in the case of Macedonia, I would say all save for probably some coastal areas.
We can get into the social-religious titles that were prevalent during the 19th century, and start making reference to 'Bulgari' and 'Romaioi', but one key thing differs that cannot be disputed; all the people referred to at times as 'Bulgari' in Macedonia spoke the same Macedonian language, so when the Macedonian identity that stemmed from commonality in geography, kinship, culture and language, was more widely and thoroughly asserted, the language didn't change. When the 'Romaioi' in Morea and the rest of what became Greece over the years began to claim a new 'Hellenic' identity that meant nothing (not geographic, not self-designation, not linguistic reference, not religious) to the peasants beforehand, much had changed, particularly the language(s) spoken by these individuals.
So, when today's Macedonians refer to 19th century figures that were dubiously 'Bulgari' like the Miladinov brothers, or Delcev (20th cent.), they are at least making reference to people who spoke the same language as they do today.
However, when today's Hellenes refer to 19th century figures like their first president Kondouriotes, an Albanian who could not speak Greek, and to Kottas (20th), an opportunist Macedonian who spoke Macedonian but was sponsored (and later betrayed) by the animal Karavangelis to support elements of the Patriarchate, they are making reference to people who clearly do not come from the same linguistic origin as they do. Of this type of 'Hellene' there were, and still are plenty. I know some people in Australia who claim to be Greeks but speak Macedonian with their family (they even call it Macedonian!) and not a word of Greek.
Originally posted by WandererThere are many.But automatically,you will discover a strange story about them,being Albanian or Vlach.In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.
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hhmm...he comes from Kymi in Euboea, they say that Euboea was populated by Albanians and Vlachs. I am not saying that he is, but if you research it you will see that in Euboea the Albanian and Vlach languages did prevail. I guess there is no way to confirm either way, so I will take your word for it, quite a famous man too.
Anymore? Like politicians and leaders from the war of independence?In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.
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You cant count,on the fact ,that at these places there were some Albanians and Vlachs.
Anyway,since you want from the Greek Revolution,check ...
Adamantios Korais
Athanasios Diakos
Emmanouel Pappas
Costantine Kanaris
There are many more,but search these ones.
but let me make you a question.
I see posts and quotes saying Kolokotronis was Arvanite or the other was Vlach and stuff like that.
First question:No one said that we are all ''pure'' Greeks.Everything is mixed up.In the same way,you are not ''pure'' Macedonian.
Second question: Doesn't tell you anything,the fact that they gave their lives for Greece.For example,I consider Lord Byron ,more Greek than me,since he gave his life for its freedom.Blood or origins ,doesnt count.Only the heart.
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It’s my understanding that Adamantios Korais was born in İzmir, Turkey. Kara means shoreline in the Turkish language. Quite fitting, considering where Izmir is located. It would seem to me that this exceptional scholar was a Grecophonic Turk in an anthropological and, therefore, historical sense. Is there any evidence to the contrary that I’m not aware of or are you simply defining "Greek" poetically, similar to Byron?
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Ιts Korais ,not Karais.And Kara,in turkish means black,which refers to black hair.So when you see Karagiannis or Karanikos,it means ''giannis with the black hair'' etc.
And what means that he was born in Izmir?Everything was under Ottoman Rule,at that time.I will use the same way of logic with yours.That means that a Macedonian that was born in TODAY'S Bulgaria's or Greece's borders is not considered Macedonian.According to you.
And I consider Byron ,more Greek than me,considering what he felt.And what he believed.And thats all it counts.
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Originally posted by Wanderer View PostSecond question: Doesn't tell you anything,the fact that they gave their lives for Greece.
How can Macedonians ever compete with the dynamic definitions that Greeks use to identify themselves. Goce Delcev spoke Macedonian and fought for an independent Macedonia. He stated "Macedonia has its own interests and its own politics which belong to the Macedonians. The one who works for joining of Macedonia to Bulgaria, Greece, or Serbia, can consider himself as a good Bulgarian, Greek, or Serb, but not a good Macedonian".
The Greeks call him a Bulgarian.
The Bulgarians call him a Bulgarian (even though they sent his body to Skopje).
We simply cannot compete on these stupid levels.Risto the Great
MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
"Holding my breath for the revolution."
Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com
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Originally posted by WandererFor example,I consider Lord Byron ,more Greek than me,since he gave his life for its freedom.
Blood or origins ,doesnt count.Only the heart.In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.
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Originally posted by Wanderer View PostΙts Korais ,not Karais.And Kara,in turkish means black,which refers to black hair.So when you see Karagiannis or Karanikos,it means ''giannis with the black hair'' etc.
And what means that he was born in Izmir?Everything was under Ottoman Rule,at that time.I will use the same way of logic with yours.That means that a Macedonian that was born in TODAY'S Bulgaria's or Greece's borders is not considered Macedonian.According to you.
And I consider Byron ,more Greek than me,considering what he felt.And what he believed.And thats all it counts.
Perhaps ‘kör’ makes more sense in terms of speculative insinuation?
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