The Greek colonization of Macedonia since 1913!

[julie]

thessalo-niki you said compromises will not easily be accepted by the Greeks.

Why does Greece insist on negotiations, because the definition of negotiation is to compromise?

[Stojacanec]

Thessalo-niki please explain to me where the origin of this deep concern stems from from the so called Greek Macedonians.

What is this origin of sensativity and interest by "Greeks" from the Aegean part as apposed to the Pelopponese.

How far back does this problem go where the name Macedonia is unexeptable by the lower region of Macedonia(ns) to be used by the upper region?

Feel free to sight any historical sources.

Give me a time frame 10s, 100s or 1000s years.

[Bill77]

thessalo-niki you said compromises will not easily be accepted by the Greeks.

Why does Greece insist on negotiations, because the definition of negotiation is to compromise?

Not in Greek way it isn't. And thessa has the nerve to say " one who asks, listens and agrees, while you do all the talking".

Well you don't need to guess who wish's to have it there way and to do all the talking while we are expected to bend over and agree. Thats the Greek expectation of Negotiation.


But what gets me is firstly the the Albanians (Greeks of the early 1800's) overnight were inserted the idea that they actually are sons, grandchildren and relatives of Pericles,Demostenisa and sons of Socrates.

Now History has repeated it self in the 1990's only this time for only the Northern greeks to be told over night, they are the sons and Grandchildren and relatives of Alexander the Great.

[julie]

They have no history batko, that is why they choose to steal ours

[thessalo-niki]

thessalo-niki you said compromises will not easily be accepted by the Greeks.

Why does Greece insist on negotiations, because the definition of negotiation is to compromise?

Our situation is exactly the same as yours. No need to say more.

They have no history batko, that is why they choose to steal ours

No kidding, Greeks use the exact same moto.
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Odysseas Elytis - Our name is our soul

[thessalo-niki]

Thessalo-niki please explain to me where the origin of this deep concern stems from from the so called Greek Macedonians.
What is this origin of sensativity and interest by "Greeks" from the Aegean part as apposed to the Pelopponese.

An average Greek, especially an ignorant one, e.g. like my mother, would just say that suddenly "these people want to take our name". Most Greeks, especially Macedonians,
(a) feel that the name Macedonia/Macedonians, as a historical term belongs to Greece
(b) reject that your people is the Macedonian nation (especially related to Ancient Macedonia)
(c) even tend to forget the existence of part of geographical Macedonia outside Greece.

How far back does this problem go where the name Macedonia is unexeptable by the lower region of Macedonia(ns) to be used by the upper region?
Feel free to sight any historical sources.
Give me a time frame 10s, 100s or 1000s years.

1945 and 1991 are certainly the critical years.
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Odysseas Elytis - Our name is our soul

[thessalo-niki]

Maybe he's a closet facist like yourself, who forces and humiliates himself to behave normally when in the presence of Macedonians?

A fascist? Not close, given to where my vote goes. Anyway, I admit I'm not a conventional case (even towards fascism).

What was he good at, repeating what we already know regarding anti-Macedonian propaganda? Who couldn't debate, me? What are you talking about?

OK, it wasn't you. It was Risto the Great (post #60). I don't know all of you well, so I hope you are better.
(I'm not referring to debating skills, just the attitude "I'm bored of arguing with you, I'm deleting you. Bye."
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Odysseas Elytis - Our name is our soul

[Daskalot]

An average Greek, especially an ignorant one, e.g. like my mother, would just say that suddenly "these people want to take our name". Most Greeks, especially Macedonians,
(a) feel that the name Macedonia/Macedonians, as a historical term belongs to Greece
(b) reject that your people is the Macedonian nation (especially related to Ancient Macedonia)
(c) even tend to forget the existence of part of geographical Macedonia outside Greece.

1945 and 1991 are certainly the critical years.

1. Are those Greeks who you claim to be Macedonians recognized by this ETHNICITY or NATIONALITY, ie Macedonian? Yes or No?

2. When was Macedonia/Macedonians a historical term that belonged to Greece, give me a date, since ancient times or what?

3. We are a NATION the Macedonian one, you are the GREEK NATION not the Macedonian.

4. Why 1945 and 1991? Explain please.

[Stojacanec]

1945 and 1991 are certainly the critical years.
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Odysseas Elytis - Our name is our soul

It is laughable to say the least that the concerns you highlighted have origins from 1945 and 1991.

So modern Greeks "feel" that the name Macedonia belongs to them. This originates (as you say) at best 65 years ago, a name mind you that has been in existance for 3000 years.

So this "feeling" by a modern Greek is enough justification to block all avenues for ROMacedonia to take part in a European block.

So this "feeling" (65 years ago) is enough to usurp Macedonian history as being a Greek one.

[Sovius]

An average Greek, especially an ignorant one
________________________________________
Odysseas Elytis - Our name is our soul

Bout hits the nail on the head, I'd say.

[Soldier of Macedon]

So modern Greeks "feel" that the name Macedonia belongs to them. This originates (as you say) at best 65 years ago, a name mind you that has been in existance for 3000 years.

That's great. Macedonians don't "feel", they KNOW that the name 'Macedonia' belongs to them, because they are the Macedonians.

[Mastika]

Considering that :
1)Macedonians were traditionally rural population,Greeks urban (cities concentrate great numbers..but this is not depicted on ethnological maps)
2)This map is by far the most pro-Macedonian ethnilogical map of the era you can find. (9 of 10 don't even depict Macedonians separately)

take again a look at it..and tell me you were the majority

1. This is a common misconception/excuse. On more detailed ethnographic maps the ethnic composition of cities is also appropriately detailed.

2. 100 years ago, in Aegean Macedonia there was no one ethnic majority, Macedonians formed a plurality though.

If you go "kaza by kaza" you will find that Macedonians formed the majority group in most Kaza's.

Macedonian Majority: Pazar/Enidze-Vardar, Voden, Kukush, Demir Hisar, Lerin, Kostur.
Macedonian Plurality: Ser, Z'hna.

Greek Majority: Kasandra, Naselica/Ljapchishta, Grevena
Greek Plurality: Ber.

Turkish Majority: Lagadina, Pravishta, Kavala, Sari Shaban, Kajlar, Kozhani.
Turkish Plurality: Drama.

Jewish Plurality: Solun.

The same survey recorded that in 1900 there were roughly 977,494 people living in Aegean Macedonia at the time. If all of the groups are added up you arrive at 346,022 Macedonians (35%), of whom 306,490/31% were Christian and 39,532/4% were Muslim. The second largest group was the Turks who accounted for 274,005 (28%), apart from c.3,900 they were exclusively Muslims. Greeks were the next largest group with 214,872 (22%) of people, of whom 201,119 (20%) were Christian and 13,753 (1.4%) were Muslims. Approximately 59,450 (6%) were Jewish whilst 47,107 (5%) were Vlachs/Aromanians. The rest comprise of smaller groups.

The fact remains that in 1900 Greeks were the third largest group living in Aegean Macedonia, behind both Macedonians and Turks. Coastal, you and many of your countrymen are deluded if you think that Greeks made up the majority population in Aegean Macedonia before 1913.

Since 1913 the Greek people have engaged themselves in removing non-Greeks from Aegean Macedonia. In the 1920s it was expelling all of the Muslims. In the 1940s all of the Jews were sent to be slaughetered. After World War Two tens of thousands of Macedonians living East of the Vardar were exiled to Bulgaria. After the Greek Civil War a similar thing happened to many living West of the Vardar, except this time they were sent to the Eastern Bloc. Since 1948 the remaining minority groups have been heavily assimilated. Greece needs to be held accountable for such shocking behaviour!

The Average Greek, as Thessaloniki says, needs to wake up and realise that 100 years ago Greeks were a minority group in Aegean Macedonia.

[julie]

No one can feel what is already rightfully theres. You are very insulting Solun
A suggestion Solun. Get lost and look for your Albanian mother and father, there is no such thing as Greek

[Soldier of Macedon]

The fact remains that in 1900 Greeks were the third largest group living in Aegean Macedonia, behind both Macedonians and Turks.

Mastika, the fact remains that in 1900 the 'Greeks' of Macedonia were nearly all Macedonians, Albanians and Vlachs that adhered to the Patriarchate. How can you compare this religious grouping with an ethnicity? Can you please define the number of actual native Greek-speakers within the Rum millet of the Patriarchate?

[julie]

Acutally Mastika, what are your thoughts on the Albanians being the second largest minority group in RoM?
What is your point, I need it clarified please.