Population of Macedonia and Adjacent Areas

[osiris]

rogi very funny man you are talking to osiris you forget and the soho in london is a place i know very well for many best unsaid reasons.

if its suho its very interesting in the ight of the poster on maknews called suhin.

[TrueMacedonian]

rogi very funny man you are talking to osiris you forget and the soho in london is a place i know very well for many best unsaid reasons.

if its suho its very interesting in the ight of the poster on maknews called suhin.

Next time you visit NYC Osiris I'll take you to Soho

[TrueMacedonian]

page 13

[Onur]

This is a quote from the book "Osmanlı İmparatorluğu ve Modern Türkiye" by Stanford SHAW & Ezel Kural SHAW, (1982);



Table above here, shows the censuses done by Ottoman Empire. So, this is the Turkish sources only. This results shows the population of current ROM, Aegean Macedonia, Vardar and Pirin(all these lands considered as Macedonia for Ottoman Empire).

Translation;
1882 - 1895 - 1904 - 1906 = The years of censuses.
Gruplar = Groups
Müslüman = Muslims
Rum-Ortodoks = People who declare that they are the member of Greek Orthodox patriarchy.
Bulgar-Ortodox = People who declare that they are the member of Bulgarian Orthodox patriarchy.
Katolik (Yunan) = People who declare that they are the member of Greek Catholic church.
Ulah = Vlachs
Sırp = Serbians
Musevi v.d. = Jewish and the rest of people.
TOPLAM = Total


It seems that Ottoman Empire only did censuses according to people`s religion, not ethnicity for the majority groups of Macedonia but i see that Christians are divided into 2 category. As far as i understood, there was two different patriarchy where people belonged to, Bulgarian orthodox patriarchy and Greek equivalent of it. There is only mention of Serbs, Jews and Vlachs, probably because they regarded as minorities.









This is a quote from the book “The Evolution of the Ethnographic Map of Yugoslavia: A Historical Geographic Interpretation” by HOFFMAN, George W., (1977);



Table above here, shows the censuses done by Serbians, Greeks, Bulgarians and Germans.

Translation;
Etnik gruplar = Groups by ethnicity
Sırp Görüşü(1889) = Serbian census at 1889
Yunan Görüşü(1889) = Greek census at 1889
Bulgar Görüşü (1900) = Bulgarian census at 1900
Alman Görüşü(1905) = German census at 1905
Sırp = Serbians
Makedon-Slav = Macedonian
Yunan = Greek
Arnavut = Albanian
Ulah = Vlachs
Diğer = Other groups
TOPLAM = Total


It seems that especially after 1880s, Bulgarians, Serbians and Greeks doing census for Macedonia and their results are so varied. Greeks says that majority of people are Greeks, Bulgarians says the same for themselves and Serbians too. Also the author of the book says that in every census done by Greeks, Bulgarians, Serbs, they deliberately shows Muslim population lower than the real numbers. All of them blames each other for publishing false census results. Ofc this is understandable since all of them wanted Macedonia for themselves.








The map of Macedonia according to Turkish sources of late 19th century;







The Districts of Macedonia at 19th century;

Translation;
Nom Ottoman = Turkish names of the districts.
Nom actuel = Current names of the districts.
Pays actuel = Current location of districts.









Population of districts in Macedonia according to 1831 census done by Ottoman Empire. This table only shows male population;

Translation;
Musulman = Muslim men.
Rayas = Turkish term of 19th century for all of the non-muslim Ottoman Empire citizens.







Population of districts in Macedonia between 1882...1893 census done by Ottoman Empire. This table only shows male population;

Translation;
Musulman = Muslim population
Grecs = The population of the people who declare that they are member of Greek Orthodox patriarchy.
Bulgares = The population of the people who declare that they are member of Bulgarian Orthodox patriarchy.
Juifs = Jewish population
Autres = Others.






The population of Macedonia given by percentages, according to religious groups in districts between 1882...1893. This census done by Ottoman Empire and the table only shows male population;

Translation;
Musulman = Muslim population
Grecs = The population of the people who declare that they are member of Greek Orthodox patriarchy.
Bulgares = The population of the people who declare that they are member of Bulgarian Orthodox patriarchy.
Juifs = Jewish population
Autres = Others.

[TrueMacedonian]

page 82

[TrueMacedonian]

Here is the essence of Pejcinovich arguement as to why a Christian in northwestern Macedonia in the early 19th century should continue to cling to his Christian faith in this increasingly Islamic region, as new Moslem settlers continued to arrive from independent Serbia. In that time and place the Christian faith conferred second-class citizenship and a lack of full protection of property and person under the law.

'The 19th Century Macedonian Awakening' by Michael Seraphinoff, page 46

[Venom]

Man I love these threads. This is the best, most informative site on the internet when it comes to Macedonia and Macedonians. Risto, SoM, TM and the rest, it's just awesome.

[julie]

Absolutely Venom!
TM has some gems

[TrueMacedonian]

Thanks you guys. I'm just happy to spread the truth with all of you.

[Pelister]

Armenians obviously were not that 'great' in terms of numbers in Solun, or there would have been more contemporary evidence of them.

[TrueMacedonian]

Armenians obviously were not that 'great' in terms of numbers in Solun, or there would have been more contemporary evidence of them.

It's the one ethnic group, in my opinion, that doesn't get enough recognition in terms of migrations within Macedonia. We have to remember a few things about the Armenians;

1) They were a major part of the East Roman Empire.
2) They were a merchant peoples which means they settled in big cities.
3) As far as Macedonia and Bogomilism they were part of the process that made the Bogomil movement big - http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...ead.php?t=4125 - through direct Paulician and other Armenian sects of influence.

So there is evidence (Tsar Samuel himself was possibly half Armenian) written and otherwise somewhat cultural at that time.

[TrueMacedonian]

The Austrian army did not interfere anymore in the fights against the Ottoman - Tartar forces. After the suppression of the Karposh Uprising, the Grand Vizier declared the war 'Holy' and that the raya and the Muslims became equal. The Tartars of Crimea were stationed in the Skopje Field, and from there they entered Tetovo, Veles and Mariovo, suppressing the rebellions, and robbing the population. In the meantime, the Arnaut (Albanian) Koja Halil Pasha arrived ftom Peloponnese in Skopje. He had also destroyed everything in his path, and met Tartar Khan in Skopje. Although the forces of Arnaut Koja Halil Pasha did not participate in the suppression of the Karposh Uprising, because they arrived later, his Albanian mercenaries began to take over. Later they acquired land in Skopje and Tetovo region as a gratitude from the Sultan, for the evil that they had spread in these areas.

Vanche Stojchev. “Military History of Macedonia" page 155.

The consequences of the Karposh Uprising were of historical and permanent significance for the Macedonian people. The Empires, the Austrian and the Ottoman, declared the war Holy. In the name of God and Allah they fought to improve the conditions of the Christians and the Muslims. The Macedonian people suffered the most from the penetration of the Austrian army, and later from the revenge of the Ottoman and the Tartar forces. Their torture forced the Macedonian people to leave their homes and their land. The pashas gave their properties to those who caused the greatest suffering to the Macedonian people.



The hard life under the Ottoman rule became even harder after the suppression of the Karposh Uprising and the retreat of the Austrian army. Although the Grand Vizier Kuprulu carried out reforms to improve the status of the Christians, the local authorities took severe revenge on the unarmed people. As a result of that situation, in the areas of Skopje, Tetovo and Tikves, many refugees left to the north. Under the leadership of the Patriarch of Pech, Arsenije III Carnojevich, in 1690, the Great Migration of the Christians was organized. People from Pech, Prishtina, Vranje, Prizren, from Skopje area, Kumanovo area, Kratovo area, Kriva Palanka, Polog, Veles, Shtip, Kochani, Bitola and even Salonica, were all moving north to Hungary, that is Vojvodina. There are data about the number of people who migrated. In some sources the figure of 30 or 40,000 people is noted. However, recent sources prove that the number was between 70-80,000 and 100,000 people. After the migration of the Macedonian population, the Ottoman authorities brought Turks- Yuruks, Albanians and other population on their properties. These people accepted Islam. After arriving in Austria, that is Vojvodina, Macedonians moved to Russia, where a Macedonian regiment was created.

Vanche Stojchev. “Military History of Macedonia" page 157

[TrueMacedonian]

The following is taken from Fields of Wheat, Hills of Blood written by Anastasia Karakasidou concerning inhabitants in Occupied Macedonia.

page 48

Yet by the mid-nineteenth century, economy and society in Guvezna began to undergo yet another series of fundamental changes. As noted earlier, genealogical reconstructions of family histories for present-day Assiros villagers who claimed their ancestors had come from Trikala (Thessaly), date the arrival of these Greek-speaking migrant settlers to the mid-to-late nineteenth century, or the 1830's-1880's in particular. Most of these newcomers established themselves, as their family occupational histories revealed, as merchants and artisans. These Christians soon came to dominate the flow of goods in and out of the settlement and by the end of the nineteenth century had built a church and brought in a teacher of Greek to educate their children.But what brought these men to Guvezna?

page 50

During the mid-nineteenth century, a number of un-married young Greek (or Greek-speaking) men, mainly from the area of Trikala in Thessaly, came to the Langadhas basin and established themselves in Guvezna as merchants, millers, wagoners, and tax collectors. I leave the issue of the cultural or ethnic identity of these migrant settlers open, for while their descendants claimed that they had been Greek, other evidence suggests that they may have been Hellenized Vlachs who spoke Greek.

page 61

In fact, one villager in Assiros, related to one of these men from Thessaly, asserted that they had come to Guvezna for propaganda purposes (yia propaghandha), to Hellenize the inhabitants in this part of Macedonia.

Hellenized Vlachs migrating to Macedonia impossible. Macedonia has been Grk for 4,000,000 years. It is purely homogenous

[TrueMacedonian]

In many cases communal disputes seem to be related to the different geographical origin of the local clans. Though no proper research has been done, it is a fact that between 1750 and 1850 successive waves of refugees settled in Macedonia. They were Christians, Albanian-, Greek- or Vlach-speaking, evicted from Epirus due to the continuous disturbances caused initially by the Albanian tribes and later on by the Ali pasha irregulars. In the course of a century a considerable number of new villages were established throughout Macedonia, while in other cases refugee families settled in Slav-speaking communities.

Social cleavages and national "awakening" in Ottoman Macedonia, by Basil Gounaris, East European Quarterly, Winter 1995 v29 n4 p409(18).


New-comers since the 18th century. How pathetic the Arvanito-Vlach Athenians continue to play a game of political chauvenism and propaganda, with a land their ancestors got acquainted with not too long ago, proclaiming an impossible 4000 years of lies.

[Bratot]

In 1990, the chairman of the Muslim organization, Riza Memedovski, sent an open letter to the Chairman of the Party for Democratic Prosperity of Macedonia. Talking of a “quiet assimilation,” he accused the PDP of using religion in an attempted “Kosovoization and Albanization of western Macedonia” (Poulton, 1997:94).

http://www.drustvo-antropologov.si/AN/PDF/2009_3/Anthropological_Notebooks_XV_3_Bielenin.pdf