Population of Macedonia and Adjacent Areas

[Carlin]

Ohrid in 1913 – Photo gallery from Albert Kahn museum

URL:

https://whereismacedonia.org/ohrid-in-1913-photo-gallery-from-albert-kahn-museum/5/

Men in traditional costumes. Their caps allows differentiating between them. Turkish are with red caps, the Albanians with white caps and the Macedonians with the black caps.


Skopje in 1913 – Photo gallery from Albert Kahn museum

https://whereismacedonia.org/skopje-in-1913-photo-gallery-from-albert-kahn-museum/

Bitola in 1913 – Photo gallery from Albert Kahn museum

https://whereismacedonia.org/bitola-in-1913-photo-gallery-from-albert-kahn-museum/

[Liberator of Makedonija]

So did anyone else know some Vlachs formed pro-Italian military detachments and attempted to found a principality?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_...941%E2%80%9343)

[Carlin]

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The Source-Based Presence of Vlachs in the Historical Region of Macedonia (14th Cent.) (M. Popović)


The Summer Pastures in the Historical Region of Macedonia (14th Cent.) (M. Popović)


URL:

https://dpp.oeaw.ac.at/index.php?seite=CaseStudies&submenu=skopje

[Risto the Great]

Why would a name like "Hrvatinic" suggest Vlach roots?

[Vangelovski]

Why would a name like "Hrvatinic" suggest Vlach roots?

I don't know, but I've always felt that the name Pederic has Greek roots.

[Carlin]

Why would a name like "Hrvatinic" suggest Vlach roots?

That's a good question. I don't know much about these families, but I do know that the Kosacha family were apparently called Vlachs.

"In Southeastern Herzegovina between 1393–1437 many Vlachian katuns emerged. The primary lords of the Herzegovinian Vlachs were the Kosača, Pavlović, and Nikolić noble families. The Vlachs from Herzegovina sometime plundered lands of Republic of Ragusa in the 14th and 15th century and grew rich by trade of goods between Ragusa and the mines of Bosnia.

Vlachs were surnamed Pliščić, Gleđević, Ugarac, Boban, Mirilović, Vragović, Kresojević, Nenković, Bančić, Pilatovac, Pocrnja, Drobnjak and Riđani. Some of the Banjani and Maleševci (Stanković) were Kosača vassals."

URL:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlachs_in_medieval_Bosnia_and_Herzegovina

URL:

https://octavian443751826.wordpress.com/2018/02/23/the-emergence-of-vlach-necropolises-with-petroglyphs-in-western-balkans-2/

„The paralels between (Romanian/Vlach) dancers from Duboka in Timoc and the depictions on medieval funerary stećci are far too close for accident” (Elizabeth Wayland Barber, The Dancing Goddesses: Folklore, Archaeology, and the Origins of European Dance, New York, W.W. Norton & Company, 2013, Chapter Medieval Traces).

[Carlin]

1) "... Vlachs from ancient times have shaped Greek consciousness. They shaped it spontaneously and free .... As in the past, from the Byzantine to the Muslim period, the Vlachs of Pindus, Ohrid and Thessaly have adopted all the characteristics of Greek culture, so now they have embraced Greek national consciousness, the last product of Greek civilization ... "

- Giovani Amadori-Virgili. Archives of the Italian Ministry of Foreign Affairs. "La questione Rumeliota: (Macedonia, Vecchia Serbia, Albania, Epiros) et la politica italiana". Roma 1908.

2) While visiting the town of Kozani in 1880, British diplomat and historian Sir Ignatius Valentine Chirol, noted that “In the 900 houses of this city there are scarcely twenty where around the family fireside any other language is spoken than the old Latin-sounding Wallach. (Still) the prosperous townsfolk would be deeply hurt if any doubt were hinted as to the genuineness of their Hellenism”.

3) Nicephorus Gregoras during his visit to the town of Strumica in 1326, recorded that there he heard a large number of Macedonian folk songs. He affirms that, although he did not understand the language of the local population, the folk songs from Strumica definitely resembled - the Phrygian folk songs ("Correspondance" Paris, 1927, p. 30).

4) Vasil Kanchov. Macedonia — ethnography and statistics Sofia, 1900, p. 90:
"All Upper Debar is threatened by Albanization. The Bulgarian-Muslim villages, which are near the Albanian villages, are already bilingual. The Torbeshi are proud to consider themselves as Albanians. The inhabitants of the villages Ostreni, Trnovo, Klenje, Leten, Dzhepishta, Erbele, Oboki, Makelari and others prefer to be called Albanians and to speak Albanian. The Torbesh village of Rajtsa, most southerly of the Islamicized villages of Lower Drim, speaks mostly Albanian and is already considered as an Albanian village. On the other hand, the Christian Bulgarian population is being expelled very quickly from the northeastern cities of Golo Brdo, Pňle and Zhupa. From Golo Brdo people mainly flee to Debar and Solun. The villages of Vichishta, Goleishta and Pisanki were at the beginning of the 19th century Bulgarian villages, 30 years ago they were half Bulgarian, and today they are settled by Albanians. There are only three Bulgarian houses left in Pisanki."

[Carlin]

"Several Roman legions were constantly quartered in these [Thracian] provinces, and numerous Roman colonies were founded in them. Roman veterans settled in the country, and young Thracians departed annually as recruits to distant legions. The Latin language appears to have amalgamated more readily with the Thracian than with the Greek. We are informed by a Greek writer, who was himself a Roman ambassador, that in the middle of the fifth century the Greek language was unknown in the countries between the Adriatic, the Aegean, the Black Sea, and the Danube, except in the commercial towns on the coasts of Thrace and Illyria; but that Latin was the ordinary medium of communication among foreign races, both for commercial and political intercourse. In the sixth century the Thracian dialect bore a strong resemblance to corrupt Latin, and to the Vallachian language spoken at the present day."

-- George Finlay, in The Byzantine and Greek Empires (London, ca. 1850)

[Carlin]

Honesta missio, Viminacium, AD 196

An inscription from 196 AD from Viminacium (Kostolac, Serbia) of Moesia Superior (Legio VII Claudia) with a long list of more than 100 soldiers mentioned because they were honored with a honesta missio after a 25-year term in auxilia of the Roman army, earning a lump sum and the privilege of the Roman state.

Besides the names of the veterans, places of origin are also mentioned. Most of the troops are from the triangle of Ratiaria-Scupi-Trimontium (a lot from Scupi; i.e. "Ale]xaṇ[der(?)]" from "Sc(upis)"), while the rest are mostly from Dacia (Sarmizegetusa), Pannonia (Sirmium and Mursa) and Dalmatia (Salonae and Iadera).

There is an "Au]r(elius) Sosigenes" from "Thes(salonica)".

The inscription is here:

https://inscriptions.packhum.org/text/174440?hs=1614-1622

[Carlin]

I have been harping on "terminology" (i.e. use of the term "Greeks" and what it means/encompasses) for a long time, and this is yet another blatant example of it.

The testimony comes to us from a French source (Perrot), from 1855 - far from "old". Let's see what was the "ethnic composition" of Prishtina, Kosovo according to Perrot.



As we can plainly see, the population of Prishtina was: "12,000, of which two-thirds are Albanians and the rest are Greeks."

Let's break it down and analyze this in more detail.

It's easy to demonstrate and show who were those "Greeks". Branislav Nushich, in 1902, talks about the diverse ethnic composition of Prishtina:

"Prishtina is a compact town; houses do not have spacious courtyards and gardens... When Prishtina was declared the headquarters of the Vilayet, it barely counted 1800 houses and now it stands at 3760 houses. Of these, 3170 houses are Turks and Albanians; 420 houses of Serbs, and there are at least 100 houses of Gypsies, about 50 Jewish houses, 10 to 15 houses of Armani (Vlachs) and a little bit of Circassians. If we were count roughly five souls per household then the population proportions would be: 15850 Turks and Albanians; 2100 Serbs; 500 Gypsies; 250 Jews and several dozen Armani (Vlachs) and some Circassians, which would total 18,800 souls. Although the official Turkish statistics show this number, however, this is exaggerated. Prishtina does not have more than 12,000 inhabitants, because many people were forced out of the Vilayet and a lot of houses were left empty. A large number of people are moving out into livlier trade places, as well as emigrating to Serbia."

Branislav Nushich link:

https://www.facebook.com/notes/pri%C5%A1tina-u-/%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%88%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B0%D0%B1%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%81%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B2-%D1%92-%D0%BD%D1%83%D1%88%D0%B8%D1%9B-%D0%BA%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%BE/1457808190952831/

In another Serbian source/publication below we see that Jukich states that Prishtina has about 12,000 residents of which Serbs make up one-third of the population (including Vlachs in this number). According to the first official Yugoslav census in 1921, Prishtina had 14,338 inhabitants of which Serbs (4325), including 'other Slavs' (19) and Vlachs (17) formed roughly one-third (Serbian-speaking Orthodox Gypsies were apparently counted as 'Serbs' as well). Two-thirds were made up of people declaring themselves as Turks (7115!) and Albanians (1421).




URL for the above pages:

https://books.google.ca/books?id=NR4NAQAAMAAJ&pg=RA1-PA20&lpg=RA1-PA20&dq=%D0%9F%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%88%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B0+%D0%A6%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%86%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B8&source=bl&ots=t0z_SCYH0-&sig=ACfU3U0leg1fGch06T5DfYorZmt9718new&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjXs4La17zhAhVGs6wKHcnKAEUQ6AEwBnoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=%D0%9F%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%88%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B0%20%D0%A6%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%86%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B8&f=false

So, Perrot - in 1855 - got the number of Prishtina residents right (!) but his "ethnic Greeks" were largely Serbs (Slavs) who were Orthodox or Greek Christians. It is possible that Greek was used at this time in the Orthodox churches in Prishtina, while some clergy and Orthodox traders utilized Greek (perhaps the language of the marketplace).

That was easy. The point/question is this:

If educated westerners were incorrectly classifying people as 'Greek' as late as 1855, what hope do we have of knowing (accepting) with certainty many other reports from Macedonia, Epirus, Thessaly, Peloponnese, Crete, etc.? Even the (widespread) use of Greek does not give us a lot of confidence to conclude anything, as these people were likely speaking a "different language at home". So, when other testimonies talk about "Albanians and Greeks in the Peloponnese", "Albanians and Greeks in Athens", etc. we simply don't know what to make of the "Greek part" until we dig deeper into the sources (if we are fortunate enough to uncover them).

[Carlin]

Source/URL:

https://books.google.ca/books?id=VyKAAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA167&lpg=PA167&dq=%D0%A3%D1%80%D0%BE%D1%88%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%B0%D1%86+%D1%86%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%86%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B8&source=bl&ots=RXKgca0RYu&sig=ACfU3U0XgNr0oD7Opw059xroiEBd8qvBug&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjymeb_vMThAhUHPa0KHU7LBMUQ6AEwBnoECAcQAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false

[Carlin]

Paper URL:

https://www.academia.edu/29475314/Multilingualism_in_the_Central_Balkans_in_late_Ottoman_times

Although I haven't read it yet here is another article/paper by the same author Jouko Lindstedt - When in the Balkans, do as the Romans do – or why the present is the wrong key to the past:

https://www.academia.edu/6651805/When_in_the_Balkans_do_as_the_Romans_do_or_why_the_present_is_the_wrong_key_to_the_past

[Carlin]

What does "Romios" really mean, and what about ... "Bulgarian Macedonia".


This book, which it says is intended for teaching, is a dictionary of the Vlach, Bulgarian and Albanian languages. It was published in 1801 by Nektarios (a priest himself) from Moudania of Asia Minor and addressed to the "pious Christians". It is a pure ecclesiastical creation for the purpose of ... guidance.

It is addressed to Albanians, Vlachs and Bulgarians and speakers of other languages (all "barbarian-speakers") to start preparing to become "Romaioi", that is, Romans.

He urges them to stop speaking their languages but also to leave their own morals and traditions, and forget about their ancestors too.

It is worthwhile to refer to the phrase "Bulgarian Macedonia", which, as we can see, comes from a Greek ecclesiastical book for guidance -- which seems to be something generally acceptable to the supreme ecclesiastical hierarchy of "Phanar".

Why else, or where would anyone dare publish such a book without their approval?

[Carlin]

This is from a native of Bulgaria Evguenia Davidova:

"These multilingual practices were commented upon by many contemporaries. Consider the example of the Russian female traveler Maria Karlova, who visited Macedonia in 1868. She was impressed by the "Bulgarians" in Negoš who knew both Greek and Bulgarian but preferred Greek «as a more cultured and fashionable language» in society and "Bulgarian" at home and in the surrounding villages. As well, the Bulgarian teacher Rada Kirkovich described Plovdiv around the mid-1860s as still very hellenized with regards to language:

"Bulgarian language was appreciated only in Marasha, Karshiaka [neighborhoods] and among the maids, but in the city there was rarely a family where they talk in Bulgarian. Only men were speaking in Bulgarian among themselves, and almost all their wives were speaking in Greek. There was no exception even in the families of the most prominent Bulgarian patriots."

The quote reveals not just gender but also class differences that might explain the fervent criticism against grecophone wives while sparing the reproach of their bilingual husbands. Desislava Lilova has also offered examples of Bulgarian language’s marginalization and its stigmatization as “rural” (selski).

The existence of a public language sphere vs an informal one was similarly noted by Victor Grigorovich, another Russian traveler and Slavist scholar, who also visited Macedonia in the 1840s to collect linguistic expressions. He stated that it was difficult to study Bulgarian because the population spoke either Turkish or Greek in public : «It is only in their homes, with help of the female, who is well known for being shy, that I was able to discern the [Bulgarian] lexical wealth». Grigorovich pointed out to the importance of mother’s tongue use at home, a crucial element in the subsequent national debates as Kirkovich’s quote demonstrates. He continued that especially in Macedonia, the "Bulgarians" often mix the three languages. Moreover, in schools the children of merchants and artisans studied Greek, which often was taught in a rhetorical manner, mixing everyday expressions with ancient phrases."

URL:

https://journals.openedition.org/balkanologie/2342

From George Moran:

- "The preservation of language is vital to cultural survival, and in my own travels over the Greek mountains I found it fascinating to examine why some villages preserved it better than others, and why some had lost it completely, as has happened at Namata (formerly Pipilisht), Sisanion (Shishani), and Vlasti (Blatsa) in Macedonia, until Vlachs told me why. It survives best today in villages where the Romanian schools were never established, or were forcibly closed (sometimes by Vlachs themselves), thus lessening the strife inherent in this linguistic and political coflict."

- "The Vlachs are known for their cheese-making, their flokati and spanakopita, and though the Vlahopoula of song may be romanticized, it is fact that they have always been much more than shepherds. Truth be told, this far-flung community has sent forth many leading figures in the Greek world of politics, professions, and the arts (the first prime minister of Greece Kolettis, the poets Krystallis and Zalacostas, the revolutionary Rigas Feraios, as well as names like Averoff, Tossitsa, Sturnaras, Farmakis, Zappas, Mitropanos, Kaldaras), while during the Greek War of Independence many klephts and armatoles (bandits and mercenaries) emerged from Vlach communities. The late Archbishop Athenagoras was himself a fluent Vlach speaker from Epirus. Less known, however, is the enormous business success of immensely rich Vlach merchants throughout The Balkans. The renowned Moscopolis, in Albania, once a predominantly, or perhaps entirely, Vlach town (with a Greek exterior) – the Vlach Jerusalem, as one Greek writer recently stated – resonates in Balkan history with its vibrant education and commerce, but with its final sacking in 1788, the Moscopolis Vlachs dispersed in many directions, only to enterprisingly set up shop in other towns and cities all over the Balkans. Much can be said as well of Siatista, in Greek Macedonia, where octogenarians once told me (in Greek) they "used to be Vlachs from Samarina," while praising their town for the many achievements of its native sons scattered across Europe."

[Carlin]