Зорба Гркот не бил Грк туку Македонец!

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  • Louis
    replied
    Yes it was. Cafes and restaurants all over the world are named after him, because of the international success, the impact of the film, the music and the dance.
    Zorba was one of the few things foreign tourists knew about Greece.

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  • Soldier of Macedon
    replied
    Originally posted by Louis
    I thought I fully answered this.
    Your response wasn't an answer to my question.

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  • Louis
    replied
    I thought I fully answered this. This is the scene (around 3:30-6:30)

    ZORBA THE GREEK (7/14) - Mikis Theodorakis, Nikos Kazantzakis - YouTube

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  • Soldier of Macedon
    replied
    Originally posted by Louis View Post
    What makes this story important is the interaction between the bookish intellectual who can only think and write and the vibrant, wise, uneducated man who can feel and act. The film, the music and the dance helped a lot.

    The rapes you mention is (literally) one line in the film and in the book, while there's also one chapter describing the murder of a Bulgarian priest and the burning of a village through some impressive contradictions. In both cases the point is humanistic and anti-nationalistic.
    I am not referring to the plot of the book/movie, or the importance of a story concerning the interaction of a so-called intellectual with a murderous animal. I am just curious to understand why your people choose to glorify a self-confessed rapist by naming their cafes and restaurants all over the world after him, even if he is a deluded figment of Kazantzakis' imagination. Is it because, in your eyes, he somehow manages to 'redeem' himself through an admission of guilt? That makes him 'human' now? If a rapist from the Bosnian or Rwandan wars said "sorry" for his dispicable crimes, should Bosnians and Rwandans glorify his name? Zorba the Greek can kiss my Macedonian ass.

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  • damian
    replied
    I always thought his character was that of a ridiculous clown what they call the karayioz. And when did this take place the Greeks of the caucasus I thought they were exiled by Stalin?


    Originally posted by Louis View Post
    Damian,
    There are no negative views about Zorba in Greece. The title “Zorba the Freak” refers to himself (Sidiropoulos) and is supposed to be satirical.

    Soldier of Macedon,
    -I DO remember the great scene from the movie where a devastated Zorba regrets that in the past “he raped women and killed people because they were Turks or Bulgarians”, but I don’t really remember if this is in the book.
    -I think that in the book Zorba participates as a rebel in the Macedonian Struggle.
    -As far as I know, the real Zorba did not participate in the Macedonian Struggle or in the Balkan Wars, he was mostly affected and destroyed by the wars.
    -Yet, he did play a political role in 1919 when along with Kazantzakis (and 3-4 other men) took a mission in Russia and brought to Greece about 100,000-150,000 Greeks of Caucus that were caught in the middle of the Russian Civil War and were in danger and devastation. Most of them were located in Macedonia and Thrace.

    They say the most important thing you can do in your life is write a great book or do something that will inspire a great book. During the 50s one of the oldest sons of Zorba, vice colonel Andreas Zorbas sent a protest letter to Kazantzakis accusing him that he ridiculed his father in the book. Yet, according to all testimonies, the real character of Zorba (with all its’ controversies) seems to be like the one described in the book.
    Kazantzakis was a genius and he really adored Zorba; he considered him his guru. Some of the elements are fictional, yet Kazantzakis and Zorbas DID experience (almost 90% of) what is in the book. They DID join in this lignite operation in 1915-1916 (in Peloponnesus, not in Crete) and it did have a gloriously disastrous ending.

    Actually Sidiropoulos comes in a sense from the Kazantzakis family. Zorbas’ daughter Anastasia was taken under the protection of Kazantzakis’ first wife (author Galateia Kazantzaki) and eventually married Garateia’s brother, Radamanthys Alexiou.

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  • Louis
    replied
    What makes this story important is the interaction between the bookish intellectual who can only think and write and the vibrant, wise, uneducated man who can feel and act. The film, the music and the dance helped a lot.

    The rapes you mention is (literally) one line in the film and in the book, while there's also one chapter describing the murder of a Bulgarian priest and the burning of a village through some impressive contradictions. In both cases the point is humanistic and anti-nationalistic.

    Leave a comment:


  • Soldier of Macedon
    replied
    Do you see anything odd with a fictional rapist becoming such an integral part of your modern culture?

    Leave a comment:


  • Louis
    replied
    My problem is that I have seen the movie probably 10 times and know it by heart, and have read the book only once, probably in the late 80s. I checked yesterday and couldn't find the references to rapes, I checked again today and I DID found it. What you're looking for is Chapter 20 (in case you own the book or can read it online).

    Also, there are several books, biographies, studies on the real Zorba; the first one appeared in 1960 (the book was a huge success before the movie). While were talking about two masterpieces Ive always thought that the film is slightly more important than the book and it is an overall excellent (though not very faithful) adaptation.

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  • Soldier of Macedon
    replied
    Originally posted by Louis View Post
    -I DO remember the great scene form the movie where a devastated Zorba regrets that in the past “he raped women and killed people because they were Turks or Bulgarians”, but I don’t really remember if this is in the book.
    There is nothing great about a scene in which a fictional rapist has shown regret for his crimes. It would have been great if he had thrown himself at the mercy of the Macedonian people whose lives he destroyed. Even greater would have been if those people ruined his miserable existence.
    I think that in the book Zorba participates as a rebel in the Macedonian Struggle.
    He (fictionally) participated in a (factually) anti-Macedonian "struggle" that was initiated and sponsored by Athens. He was (fictionally) in the company of Pavlos Melas, a man who (factually) referred to the people of Macedonia as speaking 'Makedonika' - the Macedonian language. Yet Kazantzakis and his fictional rapist make no mention of that fact.

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  • Louis
    replied
    Damian,
    There are no negative views about Zorba in Greece. The title “Zorba the Freak” refers to himself (Sidiropoulos) and is supposed to be satirical.

    Soldier of Macedon,
    -I DO remember the great scene from the movie where a devastated Zorba regrets that in the past “he raped women and killed people because they were Turks or Bulgarians”, but I don’t really remember if this is in the book.
    -I think that in the book Zorba participates as a rebel in the Macedonian Struggle.
    -As far as I know, the real Zorba did not participate in the Macedonian Struggle or in the Balkan Wars, he was mostly affected and destroyed by the wars.
    -Yet, he did play a political role in 1919 when along with Kazantzakis (and 3-4 other men) took a mission in Russia and brought to Greece about 100,000-150,000 Greeks of Caucus that were caught in the middle of the Russian Civil War and were in danger and devastation. Most of them were located in Macedonia and Thrace.

    They say the most important thing you can do in your life is write a great book or do something that will inspire a great book. During the 50s one of the oldest sons of Zorba, vice colonel Andreas Zorbas sent a protest letter to Kazantzakis accusing him that he ridiculed his father in the book. Yet, according to all testimonies, the real character of Zorba (with all its’ controversies) seems to be like the one described in the book.
    Kazantzakis was a genius and he really adored Zorba; he considered him his guru. Some of the elements are fictional, yet Kazantzakis and Zorbas DID experience (almost 90% of) what is in the book. They DID join in this lignite operation in 1915-1916 (in Peloponnesus, not in Crete) and it did have a gloriously disastrous ending.

    Actually Sidiropoulos comes in a sense from the Kazantzakis family. Zorbas’ daughter Anastasia was taken under the protection of Kazantzakis’ first wife (author Galateia Kazantzaki) and eventually married Garateia’s brother, Radamanthys Alexiou.
    Last edited by Louis; 08-08-2012, 03:14 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • damian
    replied
    '[QUOTE=Louis;131589]Most Greeks do not know it, but Pavlos Sidiropoulos, the leading figure and founder of the Greek rock scene, was Zorbas' great-grandson.
    Sidiropoulos (a Greek version of Jim Morrison) had his peak in the mid-late 70s and eventually died (as a heroine addict). His career was short but very very important. This multi-talented actor-singer-songwriter is very distinguished and still respected in Greece, far more important that his great-grand father. Actually, he was very lazy and unwilling in taking advantage of his relation with Zorba that was (and remains) widely unknown. Eventually, he made a reference with an album titled "Zorba the Freak".
    In the top-right picture you can see 3 generations of Zorbas' family:
    -Zorbas' daughter Anastasia Zorba-Alexiou
    -her daughter Jenny Alexiou-Sidiropoulou
    -her newborn son Pavlos Sidiropoulos'

    Obviously pavlos must have been ashamed of zorbathegeek thats why he acted the way he did and punned zorba the fre did you ever think of that

    Leave a comment:


  • Soldier of Macedon
    replied
    The brainchild of Kazantzakis (Alexis Zorba) was a rapist. If the real (George) Zorba was anything like his fictional namesake, it is nothing for any normal person to be proud of - normal being the operative word.

    Leave a comment:


  • Louis
    replied
    Most Greeks do not know it, but Pavlos Sidiropoulos, the leading figure and founder of the Greek rock scene, was Zorbas' great-grandson.
    Sidiropoulos (a Greek version of Jim Morrison) had his peak in the mid-late 70s and eventually died (as a heroine addict). His career was short but very very important. This multi-talented actor-singer-songwriter is very distinguished and still respected in Greece, far more important that his great-grand father. Actually, he was very lazy and unwilling in taking advantage of his relation with Zorba that was (and remains) widely unknown. Eventually, he made a reference with an album titled "Zorba the Freak".
    In the top-right picture you can see 3 generations of Zorbas' family:
    -Zorbas' daughter Anastasia Zorba-Alexiou
    -her daughter Jenny Alexiou-Sidiropoulou
    -her newborn son Pavlos Sidiropoulos

    Leave a comment:


  • Prolet
    replied
    Dimko, Zorba e zakopan vo Skopje kaj Butel Grobistata, go imam licno so moi ochi videno grobot. Eden rodnina moj e blizu do nego zakopan.

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  • Soldier of Macedon
    replied
    Originally posted by Dimko-piperkata View Post
    greshish batka...grci nemalo vo drevno vreme.

    lugjeto mozhebi gi imalo ama ne zborot grci toa e greshkata sho ja pravite ako zse muabetite so nim.
    Kako sho velat englezite Dimko, toa e 'semantics'. Se vikaje Heleni vo toa vreme, ama se razbira deka tie se istite Grci za koi pishat Rimjanite. Ne velam deka sekoash koa kje se spomnat Heleni ili Grci se 'etnicki', ama nogu pati taka beshe.

    Leave a comment:

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