Зорба Гркот не бил Грк туку Македонец!

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  • Dimko-piperkata
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 1876

    #16
    a imalo vo vremeto na drevnite makedonci ili potochno koga vladeele antite, imalo i togash grci ?
    1) Macedonians belong to the "older" Mediterranean substratum...
    2) Macedonians are not related with geographically close Greeks, who do not belong to the "older" Mediterranenan substratum...

    Comment

    • George S.
      Senior Member
      • Aug 2009
      • 10116

      #17
      Dimko toj te vikat asshole ama toj e pogolem asshole.Dali ima takvo pravo da te vika take.
      Ti samo e kazvase pravinata za zorba.
      "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
      GOTSE DELCEV

      Comment

      • Dimko-piperkata
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 1876

        #18
        mene ? ne be

        na "Alex K Gigeroff" mu vikat "asshole"
        ama koj e toj ?
        1) Macedonians belong to the "older" Mediterranean substratum...
        2) Macedonians are not related with geographically close Greeks, who do not belong to the "older" Mediterranenan substratum...

        Comment

        • Soldier of Macedon
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 13674

          #19
          Originally posted by Dimko-piperkata View Post
          a imalo vo vremeto na drevnite makedonci ili potochno koga vladeele antite, imalo i togash grci ?
          Imalo.

          Razmisli tro sho velish, i ne puli samo so edno oko. Vistinata se naogja negde vo sredinata.
          In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

          Comment

          • Dimko-piperkata
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 1876

            #20
            greshish batka...grci nemalo vo drevno vreme.

            lugjeto mozhebi gi imalo ama ne zborot grci toa e greshkata sho ja pravite ako zse muabetite so nim.
            1) Macedonians belong to the "older" Mediterranean substratum...
            2) Macedonians are not related with geographically close Greeks, who do not belong to the "older" Mediterranenan substratum...

            Comment

            • George S.
              Senior Member
              • Aug 2009
              • 10116

              #21
              niko se zaboraj sam deka e ashole.Koj e toj da gi vika ashole sto imat phd deka tie zgresale,a toj negresuva toj ne e covek co negresuvat.
              "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
              GOTSE DELCEV

              Comment

              • Soldier of Macedon
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 13674

                #22
                Originally posted by Dimko-piperkata View Post
                greshish batka...grci nemalo vo drevno vreme.

                lugjeto mozhebi gi imalo ama ne zborot grci toa e greshkata sho ja pravite ako zse muabetite so nim.
                Kako sho velat englezite Dimko, toa e 'semantics'. Se vikaje Heleni vo toa vreme, ama se razbira deka tie se istite Grci za koi pishat Rimjanite. Ne velam deka sekoash koa kje se spomnat Heleni ili Grci se 'etnicki', ama nogu pati taka beshe.
                In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                Comment

                • Prolet
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2009
                  • 5241

                  #23
                  Dimko, Zorba e zakopan vo Skopje kaj Butel Grobistata, go imam licno so moi ochi videno grobot. Eden rodnina moj e blizu do nego zakopan.
                  МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

                  Comment

                  • Louis
                    Banned
                    • Jun 2012
                    • 109

                    #24
                    Most Greeks do not know it, but Pavlos Sidiropoulos, the leading figure and founder of the Greek rock scene, was Zorbas' great-grandson.
                    Sidiropoulos (a Greek version of Jim Morrison) had his peak in the mid-late 70s and eventually died (as a heroine addict). His career was short but very very important. This multi-talented actor-singer-songwriter is very distinguished and still respected in Greece, far more important that his great-grand father. Actually, he was very lazy and unwilling in taking advantage of his relation with Zorba that was (and remains) widely unknown. Eventually, he made a reference with an album titled "Zorba the Freak".
                    In the top-right picture you can see 3 generations of Zorbas' family:
                    -Zorbas' daughter Anastasia Zorba-Alexiou
                    -her daughter Jenny Alexiou-Sidiropoulou
                    -her newborn son Pavlos Sidiropoulos

                    Comment

                    • Soldier of Macedon
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 13674

                      #25
                      The brainchild of Kazantzakis (Alexis Zorba) was a rapist. If the real (George) Zorba was anything like his fictional namesake, it is nothing for any normal person to be proud of - normal being the operative word.
                      In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                      Comment

                      • damian
                        Banned
                        • Jun 2012
                        • 191

                        #26
                        '[QUOTE=Louis;131589]Most Greeks do not know it, but Pavlos Sidiropoulos, the leading figure and founder of the Greek rock scene, was Zorbas' great-grandson.
                        Sidiropoulos (a Greek version of Jim Morrison) had his peak in the mid-late 70s and eventually died (as a heroine addict). His career was short but very very important. This multi-talented actor-singer-songwriter is very distinguished and still respected in Greece, far more important that his great-grand father. Actually, he was very lazy and unwilling in taking advantage of his relation with Zorba that was (and remains) widely unknown. Eventually, he made a reference with an album titled "Zorba the Freak".
                        In the top-right picture you can see 3 generations of Zorbas' family:
                        -Zorbas' daughter Anastasia Zorba-Alexiou
                        -her daughter Jenny Alexiou-Sidiropoulou
                        -her newborn son Pavlos Sidiropoulos'

                        Obviously pavlos must have been ashamed of zorbathegeek thats why he acted the way he did and punned zorba the fre did you ever think of that

                        Comment

                        • Louis
                          Banned
                          • Jun 2012
                          • 109

                          #27
                          Damian,
                          There are no negative views about Zorba in Greece. The title “Zorba the Freak” refers to himself (Sidiropoulos) and is supposed to be satirical.

                          Soldier of Macedon,
                          -I DO remember the great scene from the movie where a devastated Zorba regrets that in the past “he raped women and killed people because they were Turks or Bulgarians”, but I don’t really remember if this is in the book.
                          -I think that in the book Zorba participates as a rebel in the Macedonian Struggle.
                          -As far as I know, the real Zorba did not participate in the Macedonian Struggle or in the Balkan Wars, he was mostly affected and destroyed by the wars.
                          -Yet, he did play a political role in 1919 when along with Kazantzakis (and 3-4 other men) took a mission in Russia and brought to Greece about 100,000-150,000 Greeks of Caucus that were caught in the middle of the Russian Civil War and were in danger and devastation. Most of them were located in Macedonia and Thrace.

                          They say the most important thing you can do in your life is write a great book or do something that will inspire a great book. During the 50s one of the oldest sons of Zorba, vice colonel Andreas Zorbas sent a protest letter to Kazantzakis accusing him that he ridiculed his father in the book. Yet, according to all testimonies, the real character of Zorba (with all its’ controversies) seems to be like the one described in the book.
                          Kazantzakis was a genius and he really adored Zorba; he considered him his guru. Some of the elements are fictional, yet Kazantzakis and Zorbas DID experience (almost 90% of) what is in the book. They DID join in this lignite operation in 1915-1916 (in Peloponnesus, not in Crete) and it did have a gloriously disastrous ending.

                          Actually Sidiropoulos comes in a sense from the Kazantzakis family. Zorbas’ daughter Anastasia was taken under the protection of Kazantzakis’ first wife (author Galateia Kazantzaki) and eventually married Garateia’s brother, Radamanthys Alexiou.
                          Last edited by Louis; 08-08-2012, 03:14 AM.

                          Comment

                          • Soldier of Macedon
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 13674

                            #28
                            Originally posted by Louis View Post
                            -I DO remember the great scene form the movie where a devastated Zorba regrets that in the past “he raped women and killed people because they were Turks or Bulgarians”, but I don’t really remember if this is in the book.
                            There is nothing great about a scene in which a fictional rapist has shown regret for his crimes. It would have been great if he had thrown himself at the mercy of the Macedonian people whose lives he destroyed. Even greater would have been if those people ruined his miserable existence.
                            I think that in the book Zorba participates as a rebel in the Macedonian Struggle.
                            He (fictionally) participated in a (factually) anti-Macedonian "struggle" that was initiated and sponsored by Athens. He was (fictionally) in the company of Pavlos Melas, a man who (factually) referred to the people of Macedonia as speaking 'Makedonika' - the Macedonian language. Yet Kazantzakis and his fictional rapist make no mention of that fact.
                            In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                            Comment

                            • Louis
                              Banned
                              • Jun 2012
                              • 109

                              #29
                              My problem is that I have seen the movie probably 10 times and know it by heart, and have read the book only once, probably in the late 80s. I checked yesterday and couldn't find the references to rapes, I checked again today and I DID found it. What you're looking for is Chapter 20 (in case you own the book or can read it online).

                              Also, there are several books, biographies, studies on the real Zorba; the first one appeared in 1960 (the book was a huge success before the movie). While were talking about two masterpieces Ive always thought that the film is slightly more important than the book and it is an overall excellent (though not very faithful) adaptation.

                              Comment

                              • Soldier of Macedon
                                Senior Member
                                • Sep 2008
                                • 13674

                                #30
                                Do you see anything odd with a fictional rapist becoming such an integral part of your modern culture?
                                In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                                Comment

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