Makedonski Narodni i Patriotski Pesni - Macedonian Folk & Patriotic Songs

[Karposh]

Yup, exactly. I think what happened was that she was trying to show off, suck up to, or impress a Bulgarian audience to get some fans, followers, i.e. to sell some music. When asked the question, she a) couldn't think of Bulgarian songs she sings to Macedonians right away and just threw out some songs; or b) knew that Bulgarians consider those songs Bulgarian and threw them a bone.

I don't need or care for an apology from her. Just not to make detrimental remarks to cause.

Eftina i prosta kurva...Just like the rest of the cheap and simple-minded (i.e. brain-dead) whores of North Macedonia.

[Liberator of Makedonija]

Noticed this folktale/poem (unsure how to calssify) whilst reading 'Bulgarian Folk Songs' by the Miladinov Brothers. It was under the Kostursko section in this part of the book but notice its references to other regions in Macedonia at a time when there was little connection between these areas (the material was gathered in the 1850s and this example is likely much older):


331. (Петрице, моме Петрице!)


„Петрице, моме Петрице!

Дейгиди риба летнице,

Цѫрвено отъ Охритъ яболко,

Преспанска тѫнка ѭгуля,

Елибасанско-но ноже,

Юручка топла погача,

Битолско поле широко,

Тиквешка бѣла пченица,

Солунско суво грозѥнце,

Воденска ширка цѫрвена,

Негошко вино ’убаво!“

[Soldier of Macedon]

It was under the Kostursko section in this part of the book but notice its references to other regions in Macedonia at a time when there was little connection between these areas....

Why was there little connection between these areas?

[Liberator of Makedonija]

Why was there little connection between these areas?

No railwaylines, no roads, no forms of modern communication - all to be expected from the "sick man of Europe"

[Soldier of Macedon]

No railwaylines, no roads, no forms of modern communication - all to be expected from the "sick man of Europe"

And because there was a lack of infrastructure to facilitate a more efficient method of travel and communication, you find it revealing that a poem from Kostur would mention other Macedonian towns?

[Liberator of Makedonija]

And because there was a lack of infrastructure to facilitate a more efficient method of travel and communication, you find it revealing that a poem from Kostur would mention other Macedonian towns?

As far as some are, yes. I have family from the villages in Kostur and they have barely heard of anywhere north of Bitola and east of Solun because there was no reason to know them and no connection to them.

[Soldier of Macedon]

As far as some are, yes. I have family from the villages in Kostur and they have barely heard of anywhere north of Bitola and east of Solun because there was no reason to know them and no connection to them.

Just because many of them didn't have the opportunity to travel to other towns in the 19th century doesn't mean they were ignorant of their existence or hadn't heard stories about them. As for your family members, they either know that places like Ohrid, Skopje and Strumica exist or they don't. If they don't, then they have either been brainwashed by the education system in Greece or have a limited interest in their ancestral culture, history and kinsmen from other parts of Macedonia.

[Liberator of Makedonija]

Just because many of them didn't have the opportunity to travel to other towns in the 19th century doesn't mean they were ignorant of their existence or hadn't heard stories about them. As for your family members, they either know that places like Ohrid, Skopje and Strumica exist or they don't. If they don't, then they have either been brainwashed by the education system in Greece or have a limited interest in their ancestral culture, history and kinsmen from other parts of Macedonia.

Bit rich to just assume people in my region were brainwashed or have limited interest in their culture I feel you believe 19th century Macedonian peasants knew a lot more than they were realistically capable of knowing. Kostursko has been a hotbed for Macedonian revolutionary activity for over a century, so you cannot claim people aren't interested in their culture because they died for it. No one was brainwashed by the Greek education system either because if that were the case, they would not call themselves Macedonians. A spade is a spade and a shovel a shovel; not every Macedonian peasant in the 1850s knew the exact geographic definition of Macedonia and all the towns it encompasses (especially seeing how Macedonia was not strictly defined until a few decades later).

[Karposh]

Bit rich to just assume people in my region were brainwashed or have limited interest in their culture I feel you believe 19th century Macedonian peasants knew a lot more than they were realistically capable of knowing. Kostursko has been a hotbed for Macedonian revolutionary activity for over a century, so you cannot claim people aren't interested in their culture because they died for it. No one was brainwashed by the Greek education system either because if that were the case, they would not call themselves Macedonians. A spade is a spade and a shovel a shovel; not every Macedonian peasant in the 1850s knew the exact geographic definition of Macedonia and all the towns it encompasses (especially seeing how Macedonia was not strictly defined until a few decades later).

LoM, I really didn't want to weigh in but, seriously mate, what you're saying is silly...no offence. Putting aside your counter arguments to SoM, which I find a bit hard to follow tbh, looking at the poem you quoted, the well known towns of Solun, Bitola, Ohrid, Negush, and the Tikvesh region are mentioned which is hardly a point worthy of singling out for surprise. Do you really think people lived in bubbles during the 19th century and remained put within each of their respective towns and villages because of a lack of infrastructure and means of communication? There is no doubt they knew of Solun, the most significant commercial hub of Ottoman Macedonia or, Bitola, the second most significant town in Ottoman Macedonia or, Ohrid, the cradle of Christian Orthodoxy in Macedonia with over a thousand years of existence or, Negush, which is not that far off from Kostur or the Tikvesh region?

[Liberator of Makedonija]

LoM, I really didn't want to weigh in but, seriously mate, what you're saying is silly...no offence. Putting aside your counter arguments to SoM, which I find a bit hard to follow tbh, looking at the poem you quoted, the well known towns of Solun, Bitola, Ohrid, Negush, and the Tikvesh region are mentioned which is hardly a point worthy of singling out for surprise. Do you really think people lived in bubbles during the 19th century and remained put within each of their respective towns and villages because of a lack of infrastructure and means of communication? There is no doubt they knew of Solun, the most significant commercial hub of Ottoman Macedonia or, Bitola, the second most significant town in Ottoman Macedonia or, Ohrid, the cradle of Christian Orthodoxy in Macedonia with over a thousand years of existence or, Negush, which is not that far off from Kostur or the Tikvesh region?

It is not that I believe they lived in a bubble, it is based on research of that time that highlights the complete of lack of communication across large scales. Your average peasant, in all of Europe, would possess little knowledge of the places beyond their immediate dwelling. The significance of the cities is also somewhat irrelevant as to know why they are famous would mean there would need to be an education, of which the Ottoman Empire severly lacked. Of course I am not silly enough to believe peasants were not educated by elders or by religious figures so of course many would know of these towns and why they are significant but we cannot assume all did. I did mention before how most locales east of Solun and north of Bitola were not widely known in Kostursko so I did not actually suggest these significant towns were unknown, even if the people in question never visited them.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Kostursko has been a hotbed for Macedonian revolutionary activity for over a century, so you cannot claim people aren't interested in their culture because they died for it.

Kostur was a hotbed for Macedonian revolutionary activity over a century ago, not for over a century. I never claimed the people who died as revolutionaries weren’t interested in their culture. I am positive they knew of the existence of other large towns in Macedonia.

No one was brainwashed by the Greek education system either because if that were the case, they would not call themselves Macedonians.

My response was in relation to what you wrote about your family members, who you referred to in the present tense yet weren’t specific as to where they are currently located. You were also vague about their knowledge (or lack thereof) of Macedonian towns north of Bitola. I didn’t suggest they aren’t interested in their culture or history, I suggested that their interest is limited if they don’t know. It is an unfortunate occurrence for many people who are born or grow up in the diaspora. If, on the other hand, they are still living in Kostur and suffer from the same supposed ignorance, then clearly their interest is also limited or they’ve been brainwashed by the Greek education system. Your claim that nobody was affected in such a manner is patently false.

I feel you believe 19th century Macedonian peasants knew a lot more than they were realistically capable of knowing….….not every Macedonian peasant in the 1850s knew the exact geographic definition of Macedonia and all the towns it encompasses...

It’s not unrealistic to assume that people from a town in the south-west of Macedonia would be aware of the existence of other towns north of Bitola which are populated by people who share the same ancestry and culture. And there’s no need to alter your point so late in the discussion because I never claimed that every Macedonian peasant new the exact geography of Macedonia or every single town it encompasses.

A spade is a spade and a shovel a shovel

Great. Thanks. Irrelevant.

Bit rich to just assume people in my region were brainwashed or have limited interest in their culture………..

I wasn’t trying to be offensive, I was merely responding to your statement as it was presented. Perhaps you should make more of an effort to be clinical when making a point, then you won't find my replies so rich.

[Liberator of Makedonija]

Song supposedly sung by the 11th (Macedonian) Division of the Bulgarian Army during the First World War:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=embZmQy0ObQ&ab_channel=makedonBULGARmakedonBULGAR

[Soldier of Macedon]

There are several versions of the "нешто ќе те питам / нешто ќе те прашам" song found across Macedonia. It is a part of Macedonian folklore. The most common version known today is the one which refers to Todor Aleksandrov, supposedly written in the 1920's. Below is the text:

https://pesna.org/song/1111

Нешто ќе те питам, бабо, право да ми кажеш,
право да ми кажеш, бабо, без да ме излажеш.

Кои војводи беа, бабо, у вас на вечера?
Дали Гоце Делчев, бабо, или Даме Груев?

Ка ме питаш, а бре аго, право ќе ти кажам,
право ќе ти кажам, аго, без да те излажам.

Ниту Гоце Делчев, аго, ниту Даме Груев,
тук' ми беше, а бре аго, Тодор Александров,
Тодор Александров, аго, с' неговата чета.

Тука вечераа, аго, и си заминаа,
и си заминаа, аго, за Пирин планина.

Знамето им беше, аго, црно и црвено,
и на знаме пише, аго, „Смрт или слобода“,
смрт или слобода, аго, за Македонија.

Below is another documented version which was heard at festivals in Bitola and Štip. The year was 1947 and it was performed by singers from Strumica. The main difference with this version is that instead of Aleksandrov, it makes reference to Jane Sandanski.

Cited in Даме Груев, Истражувања и Материјали (1981). p. 232.

Нешто ќе те питам, бабо, право да ми кажеш:
кои војводи беа, бабо, у вас на вечера,
дали беше Дамјан Груев или Гоце Делчев?

Ел ме питаш, аго море, право ќе ти кажам:
ниту беше Дамјан Груев, ниту Гоце Делчев,
туку беше аго море, Јане Сандански.

Като вечераа, бабо, дали заминаа?
Прво вечераа, аго, и си заминаа,
и си заминаа, аго, за Пирин Планина.

Тамо ќе развијат, аго, знаме македонско,
и ќе си заминат, аго, за поле Кукушко,
а од тамо, аго море, за Кожув Планина.

I have only taken a rudimentary look at the history of this song so I don't know which historical figure the original was about. It is set during the Ottoman period and both versions refer to the protagonist retreating to the Pirin mountains. Whilst Macedonia was still under the Ottoman yoke, Sandanski was the main figure in Pirin. The influence of Aleksandrov in that region (at that time) was negligible by comparison. The context of the song, therefore, makes it more relevant to Sandanski as opposed to Aleksandrov.

[Liberator of Makedonija]

There is also a version in which the song is about Goce Delčev, which some claim to be the original.

[Liberator of Makedonija]

Zarina Prvasevda revives old folk song from southern Macedonia

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXywOMS9qp4&ab_channel=ZarinaPrvasevda