U.N investigating Macedonians in Greece

[Pelister]

Just want some thoughts and opinions on this.

Is it a good idea? Will the report be honest?

Is the report more likely to be informed by Greeks, than by the Macedonians themselves?

Will they do justice to the Macedonian minority, to the efforts of Dedo Tsaknias?

[Six Guns]

Just want some thoughts and opinions on this.

Is it a good idea? Will the report be honest?

Is the report more likely to be informed by Greeks, than by the Macedonians themselves?

Will they do justice to the Macedonian minority, to the efforts of Dedo Tsaknias?

Dora's pandora box is about to be opened!

[Risto the Great]

The first report will be honest.
The second (public) report will be a whitewash.
But it will be good to have these submissions logged on in an international forum. When the EU gets tired of the incessant bleats and economic mismanagement of the Greeks, they will turn and attack their own using evidence like this.

[Six Guns]

Greece is really going to cop some flack from the international community once the report is done and put out there for all to see!

Exposure to the rest of the world for the Macedonians in Aegean Macedonia can never be enough!

[Pelister]

I am "hopeful" that the truth comes out.

I would pretty disappointed if the U.N investigator began referring to the Macedonians using the kind of terminology typically coming from the colonial overlords.

This terminology i.e., Slavophones, etc, is very much Colonial. It centres around the illegal invasion of Macedonia, by Greece and others in 1913, and I hope that the report indicates that this is where the dispute begins.

Very few are brave enough to discuss it, but it needs to come out.

[Pelister]

Greece is really going to cop some flack from the international community once the report is done and put out there for all to see!

Exposure to the rest of the world for the Macedonians in Aegean Macedonia can never be enough!

I here ya. I just hope they are honest about it.

There is a chance that the report will not do the Macedonians justice. Remember, for a long time now these European organizations have been informed by invaders and Colonizers of Macedonia, whose entire agenda has been to justify it. So, a considerable body of anti-Macedonian information exists, its out there, and my fear is that this U.N investigator will use it. It's purpose is simple. Deny and erase any knowledge of the Macedonian race.

[toothpaste]

The clock is stopped at 1913 for some ppl in there...

[Traveller]

He will only find some civil servants who will say that they are opressed and he will start scratcing his head...

[Traveller]

SHE FOUND THEM!!! http://www.zougla.gr/news.php?id=8376
I'm bored to translate it but the general idea is that she was running to escape from the Greek TV cameras even though A1 channel was inside (marked in a circle). She said that she will discuss with the greek goverment her early findings and in March she will hand to UN her report.She was escorted by Voskopoulos and she got angry and asked not to be filmed by the Greek television.

[El Bre]

McDougall wraps up visit to Greece

The UN have shown their interest in the position of Macedonians in Greece for the first time. For whole seven hours UN independent expert on minority issues Gay McDougall, who is on several day visit to Greece, enquired whether minority whose rights Athens did not recognise truly existed in Greece. She had a meeting with around thirty representatives of Macedonians in Lerin and official representatives of the Greek authorities in Solun.

On the trip to Lerin, there was a gaffer when Athens Authorities told McDougall they would take her to visit the grave of Phillip of Macedonia and the birth place of Alexander. The UN representative refused to go saying she was in Greece to investigate minority abuse, not to visit historic sites.

The unregistered party of the Macedonians Vinozito (Rainbow) views McDougall’s visit as historic. “I hope they will help in the democratisation of Greece so that the country is not a black hole not only in Europe, but even further regarding respect of basic human rights and national minorities,” stated Rainbow President Pavle Voscopoulos. Official Greece did not comment the visit of the UN expert.
Macedonian representatives who gathered from accross Aegean Macedonia (Solun,Voden, Lerin, Kukus, Kostur...) had presented documents, and photographic evidence in their talks.

At a press conference, the Greek media tried to immediately
provoke the UN Representative, mostly when it came to the Macedonians and Turks, asking her what she would write in the report. McDougall did not answer their questions telling Greek Media they have already misrepresented her visit and the reasons for the UN visit."This is a process, I have the first impression, however further analysis and
consultation is needed" said McDougall.

The UN representative did mention the deplorable conditions of the Roma population in Greece.

[Risto the Great]

Seriously, you could not get a better response from the Greek media.
If they were to downplay the issue like all the maggots on the internet do, then this would bring less attention to the matter. But instead, they went ballistic over it. Great response.

Oh, and the Roma population ... wow, a European country sometimes referred to as the cradle of democracy ... I hope they bring themselves in to the 20th century soon. (I know we are in the 21st century btw)

[Spartan]

Seriously, you could not get a better response from the Greek media.
If they were to downplay the issue like all the maggots on the internet do, then this would bring less attention to the matter. But instead, they went ballistic over it. Great response.

Oh, and the Roma population ... wow, a European country sometimes referred to as the cradle of democracy ... I hope they bring themselves in to the 20th century soon. (I know we are in the 21st century btw)

I dont mean this to offend you
but I felt that I had to repost it
If this is accurate, then wouldnt Greece be ,relatively, very democratic?

as d1.Sweden...9.88...functioning Democracy
.....
20.Belgium...8.15...functioning Democracy
21.Japan.....8.15...functioning Democracy
22.Greece...8.13...functioning Democracy
23.U.K........8.08...functioning Democracy
24.France...8.07...functioning Democracy
.............
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36.Botswana..7.60...flawed Democracy
....................
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57.Sri Lanca....6.58...flawed Democracy
....................
59.Papua-New Guinea...6.54...flawed Democracy
.............
.......
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68.Republic of Macedonia..6.33...flawed Democracy

-Economist Intelligence Unit Index of Democracy

[El Bre]

And how old are those countries up at the top of the list Sparti? I'd say they've nad more than 16 years to work out the kinks wouldn't you?

[Risto the Great]

No offence. I responded about it elsewhere just now. Clearly Greece is not the cradle of democracy, Sweden is.

[Spartan]

I would also be interested in when the study was done and what the criterion was.

So woulde I. I didnt find this list, I saw it posted and assumed it was legit.

No offence. I responded about it elsewhere just now. Clearly Greece is not the cradle of democracy, Sweden is.

Well if "cradle" means- where it was started, then it would be very difficult to say that the "cradle" in this instance, is not Ancient Greece(Athenian,would be more precise, it was their idea). However the democracy they came up with, is not the democracy we envision today. There were slaves in their society who could not vote, and the rich families could sway/bully entire neighborhoods. Also, they did not vote for who they wanted "in", they voted who they wanted "out"!(backwards I know).
Anyways, there is a common misconception that all Ancient Greece was a democracy. This could not be further from the truth! Athens was the first, and the city states that followed suit, were more or less forced to by the Athenians to adopt this new system(not very democratic, wouldnt you agree?), as they were engaged in a war of political ideology(Pelloponesian wars)against Sparta(Id compare it to ther "cold war" of the time), and needed all the help they could get. They would force their "allies" to pay tribute to them, and would "instill" their own "Democratic" regimes to govern these allies(Democracy?).
The fall of Athens, was the fall of democracy in ancient Greece(except in Athens it was revived later on)and anywhere else until the 18/19th century. My point is, that the "ideal" Democracy of today, that people expect Greece to live up to, is very different from the Democracy of the ancient Greeks. The 'cradle" of todays Democracy definitely isnt Greece! They just came up with the "initial basic guideline" .