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Old 02-24-2019, 12:49 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Risto the Great View Post
I know conspiracy theorists will say this is a regime change imposed by USA, but this is more than that. The suffering in what should be a wealthy country is astounding.
There was an unsuccessful regime change imposed by the US back in 2002 against Chavez and it simple terms it was basically because Chavez told the multinational corporations to fuck off, the record profits that was made from Venezuelan oil was pumped back into Venezuela through social reforms etc. Basically Chavez said that the profits were for the Venezuelan people and not for the multinationals and this did sit well with the US Government and multinationals. It was revealed that several prominent US Government officials had close ties and interests in these multinational corporations
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Old 02-24-2019, 11:26 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
I haven't really been following this situation too closely and don't have a vested interest in Venezuela either way. I agree with your statement that tyrannical governments treat their people like garbage. That said, do you believe the U.S. should have the right to meddle in the affairs of other countries because they don't agree with their policies, even if they don't pose a direct threat to U.S. territory?
Id be inclined to automatically say no, but I think the truth is much more complicated. I think the word meddle is both overused and very ambiguous. There are always many conspiracy narratives out there, most of them completely uncorroborated. Seldom will you find direct evidence of forceful actions. If we really believe the world is a battle ground of ideas, then we can't be surprised or offended that powerful nations will use their influence to shape the world in their favor and based on their own principles and values.

I think of Macedonia. What if a people's rebellion started, and Zaev used the army to brutally put it down? Wouldn't we seek help from sympathetic parties to support the rebellion? Wouldn't Zaev claim that the rebellion is illegal and unjust? Wouldn't 3rd parties be faced with the choice of what side they think is just? Wouldn't either Zaev or the rebels feel aggrieved or vindicated upon receiving foreign support? When you are on the winning side you are grateful for any help you get, when you are on the losing side foreign meddling is unfair.

The short answer is its complicated and it depends. Things are never as black and white as we want them to be.

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Again, I don't know the whole background of this story because Macedonians have their own problems to deal with, but how much of the economic suffering in Venezuela has been exacerbated due to U.S. sanctions?
It has to have some impact otherwise what would be the point. Its an often debated approach here in the USA. Most people don't want to see nothing done at all, most people don't want to see direct intervention either, so that leaves sanctions. Americans are not ignorant to the fact that the sanctions also exacerbate the suffering on the people themselves as well as the ruling class. The becomes if not sanctions what do you do?

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Pretty sure they're some vassalage going on when it comes to Brussels.
Yes and you have Brexit because of it. You have to take my comment in the context of wild conspiracy theories that somehow always boil down to a handful of Jews in New York control the world. I speaking to the insinuation that virtually the entire western world is simply just told what to do by the USA and they blindly go and do it whether they agree or not. Do you think German, France and Britain don't think and act independently of the USA?

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The mocking goes both ways. And Germany, probably the most influential country in the EU, still has dozens of U.S. military bases and thousands of American troops stationed in the country. The left-leaning Eurocrats may not be on friendly terms with the current U.S. administration and may have some room to make independent decisions, but much of their 'free will' is still subject to U.S. influence.
Do you think Germany is a vassal state to the USA, fearing that those thousands of American troops will attack if they refuse?

Being influenced doesn't mean you don't exercise free will. We are all influenced, constantly. This mere conversation serves as a form of influence to both of us and anyone who may be following and formulating an opinion. Influence can be strong or weak, but I have no doubt that the US can't force most other sovereign states to do anything that they don't want to.

Do you believe that the current schism between the US and the EU is not proof that they can have diverging views and interests and they can purse diverging interests even conflicting interests?

If the EU just did what the US says then why the fallout, why wouldn't the Trump administration just force them?

If your neighbor next door is about to murder his wife, is it your business to intervene, or is it their house their life none of your business? This is the same dilemma all large nations are faced with, at what point is it your business to intervene and at what point is it not. We tend to answer that question subjectively and based on what our political views are. When we agree with a side we are happy to lend support, when we don't we consider it unlawful meddling.

My main point wasn't even on the merits of whether nations should or shouldn't meddle, it was about not automatically assuming everything is anything but what it appears to be. Maduro is setting on fire foreign aid in food and medical supplies from neighboring countries because it makes him look bad, despite having death and starvation. The army was deployed to the border to shoot at anyone who attempts to transfer aid across the border. Would you deny food and medicine to your starving people in order to prove a point or cling to power? Any half decent human being would do the right thing by his people and not just cling to power at any cost.

Its always the dictators, and somehow they are painted as the victims. Kind of like how Neo-Nazis believe the Germans were the real victims of the world wars.
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Old 02-24-2019, 09:34 PM   #33
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Yawn yawn this is all too predictable. I’m sure the new gov will be just as efficient as the Iraqi government in improving the living standard of its citizens.

Iran, Iraq and Russia should also be wealthy countries? What’s the common theme? They have or had sanctions imposed on them by the US?

The Saudi gov chops up journalists in embassies in foreign countries, nothing to see or hear.. move on.

Anyway I’m no expert on Venuezvala, it’s a bit like cry wolf. I just don’t farking believe anything that comes out of the US or it’s vassals.

This is a different scenario when compared to what happened in Libya and Syria. For example, the majority of Libyans where for Ghaddaffi, people where very wealthy, the government paid for them to travel abroad to study, helped pay in regards to other costs of living. In Syria a great majority of the population also supported the current government, but most importantly Syria had one of the best living standards in the Middle East. Basically these ‘oppressive governments’ gave back to their people and people from these countries talk about their ‘dictators’ in a positive light.

In Venezuela it is a different story. Almost everyone hates the Venezuelan government (this includes other south American people as well), the people are starving and dirt poor, they are basically living in third world conditions most of the large Venezuelan cities are the most dangerous cities in the world. Yes I realise the USA has a part to blame with the sanctions, but the government is acting like typical commies – taking everything from the people and leaving them poor. Basically communism has proven that it is a flawed system and does not work.

In the end there is no serious push to have a ‘regime’ change in Venezuela because it does not pose a threat to Israel such as Libya, Syria in the past and Iran now. The USA doesn’t want to be swamped by thousands of ‘brown’ refugees as well.
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Old 04-09-2019, 01:04 AM   #34
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Maradona fined for dedicating victory to Maduro & Venezuelans in post-match rant

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https://www.rt.com/sport/455935-mara...aduro-support/

Argentinian great Diego Maradona has been slapped with a fine by Mexican football’s governing body, which found him in violation of its ethics code, after he backed Venezuela’s leader Nicolas Maduro and scolded Washington.

Maradona, who has been coaching Mexico’s second division team Dorados de Sinaloa, held back neither his praise for the Venezuelan president nor his scorn for the US government, after his side emerged victorious from a close encounter with Tampico Madero late last month.

Flushed with success from Los Doritos’ 3-2 triumph, the flamboyant Argentinian went on a political rant at the post-match press conference. He dedicated the victory to “Nicolas Maduro and all Venezuelans, who are suffering.”

Next, Maradona took a swipe at Washington.

“The sheriffs of the world, who are those Yankees? Just because they have the biggest bombs in the world, they think they are so much more advanced than us. No, they are not,” the 1986 World Cup winner declared, prompting an investigation by football authorities.

On Monday, the Mexican football federation said that Maradona would be subject to a fine for breaching articles 7 and 11 of the code of ethics, which demands that he as a team manager abide by the rules of political neutrality. The body, in its statement, did not specify the sum Maradona will have to fork out for his offense.

Maradona’s foray into international politics is not his first and should not come as a surprise, considering his long history of supporting left-wing Latin American leaders, which has drawn outrage from his more mainstream-minded colleagues and fans alike.

Back in 2017, the Argentinian, who deems himself a “chavista,” said that, as soon as Maduro gives the orders, he would be “dressed as a soldier for a free Venezuela.”

Maradona has been a long-time staunch backer of the embattled Venezuelan leader, making his support vocal amid the political and economic turmoil that has engulfed the country, and has even kicked a ball together with Maduro, back in November 2017.
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Old 05-01-2019, 06:26 PM   #35
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Shocking images from Venezuela as the Government and the opposition fight for power

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https://english.republika.mk/news/wo...ght-for-power/

30.04.2019

Shocking scenes continue to arrive from Venezuela, where supporters of Juan Guaido are clashing with military units loyal to Nicolas Maduro.

Fighting broke out over a military base near Caracas, where Guaido called for a final push to remove Maduro from office. The US Government, including a presidential tweet from Donald Trump, encouraged Guaido not to back down, as Maduro’s Government insisted that the coup was easily defeated.

A shocking video from Caracas revealed just how tense the situation is, as an armored personnel carrier ran over a group of protesters who were throwing rocks at another armored vehicle. There are still no comprehensive reports about the number of casualties in the clashes, which began in the run up to the usual mass demonstrations on May Day.




John Bolton on Venezuela: All options are on the table
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pm8GbHGu6aY

Last edited by Carlin15; 05-01-2019 at 06:40 PM.
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Old 05-01-2019, 10:13 PM   #36
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Well looks like the Yanks are going to get what they wanted after all. Curious to see what Russia's reaction will be given this is yet another Russia friendly regime that is about to fall.

The Russians only have a few allies left in the entire world. I wonder if they even have the means to do anything about it.
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Old 05-02-2019, 02:27 PM   #37
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The US Southern Command is on standby for a diplomatic effort. Hilarious!
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