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Old 10-01-2010, 01:27 AM   #1
Bratot
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Arrow Turkey & China: alternative for Macedonia?

Turkish and Chinese militaries recently conducted a joint aerial exercise in central Anatolia, the first such exercise involving the air forces of NATO member Turkey and China.

The joint exercise was part of Turkey’s Anatolian Eagle maneuvers, which have so far been carried out jointly with US, other NATO countries and Israel. They took place sometime this month in the central Anatolian province of Konya, where Anatolian Eagle maneuvers traditionally take place. Turkish F-16s and Chinese SU-27s and Russian-made MIG-29s took part in the joint exercise, staging a mock dogfight in central Anatolian airspace. The exercise comes ahead of a planned visit by Chinese Prime Minister Wen Jiabao to Turkey next month, which officials say will boost relations to a new level. The two sides are expected to sign several agreements on economic and cultural cooperation during the Chinese prime minister’s visit.

Turkey has recently modified its security policy, removing neighbors from a list of countries considered as threats to national security.

http://www.trdefence.com/2010/09/30/...air-maneuvers/

Thursday, September 30, 2010
ISTANBUL - Daily News with wires

The Turkish and Chinese air forces secretly participated in a military drill in Konya as part of the “Anatolian Eagle” war games, prompting a reaction from Washington, daily Taraf reported Thursday.

Taraf based its report on Turkish and Western military sources, who confirmed that the military drills took place but did not state the exact dates of the games or what kind of aircraft were involved.

Washington has requested information on the matter from Turkey, the report added.

Last year, Ankara excluded Israel from the war games, reportedly because of political tension that arose with Tel Aviv after the Israeli-led war in Gaza in January 2009.

The Turkish government decided to freeze all military exercises with Israel in response to the killing by Israeli commandos of nine people on a Gaza-bound aid flotilla in May. Last year, Ankara excluded Tel Aviv from the same exercise, which prompted fellow NATO members the United States and Italy to withdraw from the drills. Turkey had to conduct the exercise on a national instead of an international level.

Since the early 2000s, Turkey, a NATO member, has conducted war games in the central Anatolian province of Konya with other members of the alliance or non-member friendly nations. But this year was the first time a military drill was conducted with China.

The U.S. administration reportedly contacted the Turkish foreign and defense ministries and asked why the drill was conducted and what kind of maneuvers were practiced.



Going before:

25 March 2009,

Turkey, China to raise military cooperation
Turkish Military Academies Commander Gen. Hasan Aksay who is in China, said Turkey and China should consider conducting joint military exercises: "Our talks should not remain limited to educational activities. We should think about joint military exercises."

In addition, China's Deputy Chief of General Staff Gen. Ge Zhenfeng said they expect to receive more military students from Turkey; since 1985, China has received 18 military delegations consisting of 200 people from Turkey. Turkey received 14 Chinese military delegations with more than 330 representatives in the same period, officials said.
Zhenfeng also said that he admires the Turkish military, "With its educational achievements and its combat capabilities, the Turkish military has made a deep impression on my mind," and added the Turkish military was exceptionally "disciplined." He also expressed his country's gratitude for Turkey's "one China" policy.

Aksay is expected to visit Shanghai today and leave China tomorrow.

http://www.todayszaman.com/tz-web/de...ay&link=170574


China And Turkey Increase Their Military Cooperation.

What Is Behind It?


Martin McCauley writes: Last month, General Hasan Aksay, commander of the Turkish military academies, paid a visit to China.This was not the first visit of a high ranking Turkish military official. There have been 18 delegations since 1985 and 14 Chinese military visits to Turkey. General Aksay was not senior enough to launch any new initiative. However, some observers think there was to his trip than meets the eye. Military collaboration has been steadily increasing during the last 15 years.

Turkey was a member of the UN force during the Korean War (1950-53). Fighting was ferocious and over 25,000 Turks saw service there. Casualties were high: over 700 men were killed and over 2,100 wounded. As a result of the conflict Turkey became a member of the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation in October 1951 while the war was still going on.

The Korean conflict has left its mark to this day. China is still less favourably portrayed than other countries in East Asia. Diplomatic relations were only established in the early 1970s and military contact began a decade later.

During the first half of the 1990s, the United States criticised Turkey for using US weapons in its struggle with Kurdish separatists. Arms embargos followed. The result was that Turkey turned to China, among others, for arms. Ankara signed its first deal in 1997 for the supply of rockets. Turkey then began to produce rockets based on Chinese designs under licence. Then surface to surface missiles were manufactured.

One estimate is that purchases of Chinese arms between 1998 and 2007 only amounted to about 1 per cent of Turkey’s total arms purchases.

Beijing is keen that Ankara participates in the war against terrorism. The primary target are the Uyghurs who are Muslim and want greater autonomy in Xinjiang province. As a Turkic people they are to be found also in Turkey as are some of the leaders of the Xinjiang movement. Demonstrations and violence against Chinese personnel in Turkey eventually led to the signing of a Sino-Turkish agreement on military cooperation in February 2000. This included mutual opposition to separatist movements (Uyghurs in China and Kurds in Turkey).

One of the goals of Chinese military intelligence in Turkey is to penetrate Uyghur organisations with moles and sleepers. Beijing has had some success as there is often conflict among Uyghurs. These organisations are aware that there are collaborators within their ranks and attempts to purge them have led to uproar.

Chinese foreign intelligence also monitors the activities of Falung Gong, a religious movement which Beijing has perceived as a threat since the late 1990s.

China is also concerned about the re-emergence of Pan-Turkism. Turkic peoples stretch from Sakha-Yakutia, in Siberia, to Tatarstan and Bashkortostan in the Urals to Central Asia, Azerbaijan (there are also Azeris in northern Iran) to Turkey. The Uyghurs, Kazakhs and other ethnic groups in Xinjiang province are also Turkic. All Turkic groups are Muslim and predominantly Sunni.

Ironically some Turkish politicians and military officers regard China as an alternative model to the United States and the European Union. The ‘Eurasian’ faction in the military is right wing and anti-Islamist. The present Turkish government has forced some of them to retire.

During General Aksay’s visit to China it was agreed to increase military cooperation. Joint military exercises and training are envisaged as are joint military production projects. The Chinese and Turks have certainly a lot to discuss. Ankara regards China as a rising military power. Regarding military matters, Turkey will soon have a Chinese option as well as an American.
http://www.stirringtroubleinternatio...-is-behind-it/


What do you think of it, don't you agree that Macedonia should follow the example of Turkey in relation to China and look as alternative for NATO?

What would Macedonia gain or lose if we change our "national priority" of being part of NATO but instead alliance with Turkey, China and probably Russia?

I could include in also strong ties with India, Japan, Brazil, Poland, Ukraine, Belorussia, Czech, Slovakia, Croatia, Israel etc.
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Old 10-01-2010, 04:00 AM   #2
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I feel we should look elsewhere. Especially Militarily.
You watch the european (EU) and US scum take notice of what we want afterwards. Nothing like snubbing someone with pride such as US and let them eat shit.

So i say yes to alliance with China, Turkey, Russia and why not, throw Iran in for a shit stir.
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Old 10-01-2010, 08:09 AM   #3
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Macedonia has absolutely nothing to lose with forming an alliance with China, Turkey and Russia, as Bill points out, it will erode US "hold" over RoM, and will give Macedonia more autonomy, and security with financial investments as well. And US will be shitting some big bricks with an alliance with Chine especially. They will want to be Macedonia's new best friend then
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Old 10-01-2010, 08:19 AM   #4
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A touch of Tito…spit spit…playing the usa against the soviets. When you are stuck in the middle sometimes all you have got left is to play the middle game. Just remember your history then remember neither is your best friend.
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Old 10-01-2010, 08:29 AM   #5
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US are the antiChrist when it comes to the sovereignty of Macedonia. If we are to "remember" history, then are you also talking of Ottomon Rule? Because I would rather have a strong alliance with Turkey, the actions of the US can speak for themselves when it comes to Macedonia the last 20 years. China will be a force to be reckoned with , and US is heavily in debt to China. Money talks. And when the money gets asked for and Macedonia has alliance with China? US can jump. Through hoops. Big ones. They shove their noses where it doesnt belong, have destabilised the region and caused so much fracas they deserve what they will have coming to them
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Old 10-01-2010, 09:02 AM   #6
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Julie Well I was referring to the soviets aka Russians vs. usa. Turkey is a different situation. They know Macedonia and Turkey can get along well with each other and both face the usa as a frenemmy.

China wants in on the eu market via a friendly non western Europe country that they can get along with and Macedonia fits that picture. The Chinese have already said if RoM gets in the eu they will build a computer manufacturing plant there. The Chinese want to do good business and there is absolutely nothing wrong with doing good business but ofcourse business goes good with a friendly country with a capable…at least the new generation are supposed to be…and not too expensive workforce.
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Old 10-01-2010, 09:21 AM   #7
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ah, I misinterpreted OM. The Russkies!
actually its quite a potently wonderful little combination
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Old 10-02-2010, 01:12 PM   #8
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Macedonia doesn’t have a problem being friends with china anyway but it is also nice if you can do good business with your friends. Interest with china is and should be on Macedonia’s priority list.

The influence of usa on Macedonia is questionable in a number of key areas. I think the usa tries to shore up support for themselves but very much on their terms which often come across as disrespectful and if someone disrespects you it puts their motivations towards you into question. Could it be the usa are going mad realising their place in the world is slipping.

Analyst: US is Practically Owned by China

http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/16566/53/

Thursday, 30 September 2010
The US supremacy as the top world economy will end sooner than many people believe, so gold is a better investment than the dollar despite it hitting a new record, Tom Winnifrith, CEO at financial services firm Rivington Street Holdings, told media Monday.

Gold hit a new record high Monday and silver rose to another 30-year peak as investors were worried about the dollar weakening further after the Federal Reserve hinted at more quantitative easing last week.

The US trade deficit and debt continue to grow and the authorities are reluctant to address the problem, preferring to print money, Winnifrith said.

"America is practically owned by China," he said.

He reminded of the fact that in 1900, sterling was the world's reserve currency but by 1948, that was no longer the case as the British Empire collapsed.

"America is doing what Britain did," Winnifrith said. "America spends much more than it can afford and it's not addressing the issue."

In 1832, China and India were the world's two largest economies and by 2032, they will regain that status, he predicted.

"The 200 years when Britain and the US were the top two economies were an aberration and that will change," Winnifrith said.

"The decline of empires has happened much faster than folks think. I believe that gold will be a far better bet in 20 years than the dollar," he added.
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Old 10-07-2010, 01:07 AM   #9
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Quote:
Турција планира да го лансира својот прв сателит за собирање на разузнавачки информации во 2012. година, изјави турскиот премиер Реџеп Таип Ердоган
source

Turkey plans to launch its first satellite for intelligence gathering in 2012, said Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan.

TURKISH AEROSPACE INDUSTRIES
http://www.tai.com.tr/taimain.aspx

useful links:
http://www.turksat.com.tr/content/view/453/199/

http://www.aselsan.com.tr/default.asp?lang=en

http://www.roketsan.com.tr/index_eng.php

http://www.tubitak.gov.tr/en/ot/10/;...6292EF00D6E622



With the production of "Anka" after the U.S. and Israel, Turkey became the third country in the world which produces unmanned aircraft.

http://www.trtmacedonian.com/trtworl...D0%BA%D0%B0%22
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Last edited by Bratot; 10-07-2010 at 01:15 AM.
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Old 10-07-2010, 01:16 AM   #10
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This is a good analysis by Turkish Prime Minister Erdogan

Erdogan: Greece's Imaginary Enemies Cost them their country

Wednesday, 06 October 2010

Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan yesterday criticized Greece’s out of control spending on defense, arguing that this primarily contributed to the country’s debt crisis, and said that Turkey should avoid the Greek example.

“For years, they spent whatever money they had and didn't have on weapons. But to protect themselves against whom? And how did this benefit them?” Erdogan told an audience at the Piri Reis Maritime University in Istanbul.

“When you spend all that money, you mortgage your future. This was the heavy price our neighbor paid for creating imaginary enemies,” Erdogan said. “We must not make the same mistake,” added the premier who is to visit Athens on October 22 for a summit on sustainable development.

http://macedoniaonline.eu/content/view/16602/46/
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