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Old 05-20-2017, 02:23 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Liberator of Makedonija View Post
Either way, what religious structures are built in Ohrid are of no concern to me .
This is a very ignorant attitude to have. Building a 32 meter minaret in the center of Ohrid will not only significantly alter the skyline and the charm of the old town, it will also be a nuisance to the majority Christian population who will have to wake up early every morning to the sounds of an Albanian hoxha chanting in Arabic. This is anything but a tourist attraction, this is an attempt to alter the image of Christian Ohrid and make it into a "multi ethnic multi faith" Ohrid where Muslims will have a larger presence in the cultural fabric of the town and will play a leading role in Albanianzing the region in the near future.
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Old 05-20-2017, 10:16 PM   #12
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Do you want loud speakers blaring Muslim moaning every freaking morning ? The entire city will have to listen to that shit. What will tourists think? That they entered a Muslim country that's what, like they already think when they enter Skopje.
The speakers would be too much but what would it matter what tourists think in that regard, Macedonia is a multi-religious country anyway
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Old 05-20-2017, 10:18 PM   #13
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This is a very ignorant attitude to have. Building a 32 meter minaret in the center of Ohrid will not only significantly alter the skyline and the charm of the old town, it will also be a nuisance to the majority Christian population who will have to wake up early every morning to the sounds of an Albanian hoxha chanting in Arabic. This is anything but a tourist attraction, this is an attempt to alter the image of Christian Ohrid and make it into a "multi ethnic multi faith" Ohrid where Muslims will have a larger presence in the cultural fabric of the town and will play a leading role in Albanianzing the region in the near future.
It's not ignorant, I just don't care. The whole Christian/Muslim divide is an absolute joke in my eyes, the religious identity of Macedonians means nothing to me as a Macedonian is a Macedonian irregardless of religion.
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Old 05-21-2017, 04:48 PM   #14
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It's not ignorant, I just don't care. The whole Christian/Muslim divide is an absolute joke in my eyes, the religious identity of Macedonians means nothing to me as a Macedonian is a Macedonian irregardless of religion.
Its not a joke.

Irregardless of religion, a Macedonian is a Macedonian.

The first post isn't about Christian/Muslim divide, this thread is based on the construction of a minaret. I feel as if you are unintentionally introducing a Cristian/Muslim divide, why do you think it necessary to bend the thread in that direction?

From what I understand the mosque already exists, now they want to add a minaret with funding from Turkey. I don't know if this mosque is currently being used and don't know what condition it is in.

Thinking about what you had said Irregardless of religion. Is the Imam Macedonian?

Do you know why the Turkish government funded it?
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Old 05-21-2017, 05:18 PM   #15
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Christianity will become a minority in ROM if the current trends continue, I've read this on a few statistical web sites.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/aduk...y-reveals/amp/

The Large mosques are a marking of their territory, just note the mosques with the extended minarets when driving from Kicevo to Skopje. In regards to the Mosque in Ohrid, someone must have got a big fat pay day.

I remember staying over in Kumanovo, the early morning chanting woke me up. Wasn't a nice feeling, didn't feel like home..
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Old 05-21-2017, 05:31 PM   #16
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I thought Christian numbers are falling everywhere.
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Old 05-21-2017, 05:42 PM   #17
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I remember staying over in Kumanovo, the early morning chanting woke me up. Wasn't a nice feeling, didn't feel like home..
This ^ exactly.


I'm not a religious person, but what people are ignorant about in regards to these mosques, is that they are not being built for religious purposes. A perfect example is in Prilep, where you can count Muslims on one hand, yet they build a mosque and now every morning half the city wakes up to a moaning imam.

If those loud speakers were blasting anything else at some ungodly hour would anyone tolerate it? What if it was music, or a baby crying, or commercials? People would flip and and say its a nuisance and it needs to stop.

There is a reason for those loud speakers, its to mark territory, to show you that they don't care what you think, they don't care if you want to hear it or not. It's meant to be in your face. Same goes for the minarets, the point is so that you can see them from all around, they are intentionally tall, again to mark territory. Do you think you would get permission to build your house 30 meters high?
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Old 05-21-2017, 09:48 PM   #18
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Its not a joke.

Irregardless of religion, a Macedonian is a Macedonian.

The first post isn't about Christian/Muslim divide, this thread is based on the construction of a minaret. I feel as if you are unintentionally introducing a Cristian/Muslim divide, why do you think it necessary to bend the thread in that direction?

From what I understand the mosque already exists, now they want to add a minaret with funding from Turkey. I don't know if this mosque is currently being used and don't know what condition it is in.

Thinking about what you had said Irregardless of religion. Is the Imam Macedonian?

Do you know why the Turkish government funded it?
Fair point Redsun. I have said three times now though that the minaret seems unecessary to me considering the demographics of Ohrid. I have also raised concern about Turkish-funded mosques and likened them to the tactics used by the Greek Patriarchate and Bulgarian Exarchate back-in-the-day. My point on the lack of care was simply in reference to religious structures as actual places of worship. The idea of Christianity becoming a minority in Macedonia only concerns me due to the Macedonian Orthodox church being the only religious denomition that actually protects Macedonians. If there were an Islamic Macedonian service that served the same purpose then it would be of no concern to me which religion was dominant. At the moment though, Macedonian Muslims are under attack by Albanian Muslims to be assimilated and are likely also attending Turkish-sponspored Mosques. This does concern me.

Last edited by Liberator of Makedonija; 05-22-2017 at 01:21 AM.
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Old 05-22-2017, 07:17 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Liberator of Makedonija View Post
The whole Christian/Muslim divide is an absolute joke in my eyes, the religious identity of Macedonians means nothing to me as a Macedonian is a Macedonian irregardless of religion.
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If there were an Islamic Macedonian service that served the same purpose then it would be of no concern to me which religion was dominant.
LoM, I take issue with you over these remarks.

It is clear religion has little significance for you to make such assertions and it doesn't seem to bother you whether you see crescent-crowned minarets piercing the Macedonian skyline or the cross atop the humble church bell tower. It doesn't matter to you and you could care less. But it matters to me and, I dare say, to hundreds of thousands of other Orthodox Christian Macedonians.

At the risk of sounding like a religious nutter (yet again), the reason it matters is that, whether people like it or not, our Christian Orthodox faith defines us as quintessentially Macedonian. From the moment Saint Paul was inspired by God to spread the new faith to the Macedonians, it is our faith as Orthodox Christians that keeps our identity alive today. Traditionally, Macedonia has been an Orthodox Christian land and, although the picture on the ground might be that of a “Jerusalem of the Balkans “, in the sense that it somehow belongs to both Christianity and Islam, I would much rather people recognise it in the other Jerusalem sense.

One thing that is often brushed aside and not discussed in too much detail is that, for many Muslim Macedonians, their Muslim faith is stronger than their need to be Macedonian. Sure, they identify with the majority Macedonians but their loyalties can be fickle and often divided. For example, the Macedonian Muslims from the Reka region and Golo Brdo, on the whole, can be said identify as Macedonians while the majority of the Muslim Macedonians from Strushko identify primarily as Albanians and Turks and, still others, from regions such as Kichevsko, Zhupa in Debar, Skopska Torbeshija and Pelagonija identify exclusively as Turks, despite Macedonian being their first language.

So contrary to your misguided and seemingly altruistic views, it is of great concern that the Macedonian Orthodox Church remains the dominant religion in Macedonia. I think it was mentioned on another thread that, for every new Orthodox Church that is built in Macedonia, ten more mosques mushroom up in no time. This is of grave concern.

From the 70 mosques in its Ottoman heyday, Bitola now has ten mosques left. Four are functioning while the other six have been converted to museums or cultural and historical monuments. I can't tell you how much of a disappointment it is, as a Bitola native, to see the city skyline marred by these eyesores. For a city that is 89% Macedonian, it is a disproportionate representation of a minority religion in the city. The idiots even spend tonnes of money maintaining these “cultural monuments”. If we must commemorate our slavery under the Turks by keeping these eyesores in Bitola, then my suggestion would be to at least demolish the minarets and put a commemorative plaque on the front lawns describing how Macedonian peasants were forced to build these treasures of Islam over the foundations of the original Orthodox churches that once stood there. Jeni Mosque, in the centre of Bitola, is one such mosque that was apparently built over the foundations of three former orthodox churches, one of which was the church of St. George (which has many legends associated with it).

Ohrid, besides being another majority (80.4% - from Wikipedia) Macedonian city is a tourist hub. Our one and only truly tourist destination, and a 32m minaret has no place in this city. In any other part of the world, it would be reasonable to say that such a thing is not appropriate in the context of its surroundings. So why should it be any different in Macedonia. If Ohrigjani don't want their skyline to turn into another Bitola skyline then they must get really loud over this and reject it outright. Otherwise it will just end up being yet another shameful disgrace for us all.
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Old 05-22-2017, 08:00 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Karposh View Post
LoM, I take issue with you over these remarks.

It is clear religion has little significance for you to make such assertions and it doesn't seem to bother you whether you see crescent-crowned minarets piercing the Macedonian skyline or the cross atop the humble church bell tower. It doesn't matter to you and you could care less. But it matters to me and, I dare say, to hundreds of thousands of other Orthodox Christian Macedonians.

At the risk of sounding like a religious nutter (yet again), the reason it matters is that, whether people like it or not, our Christian Orthodox faith defines us as quintessentially Macedonian. From the moment Saint Paul was inspired by God to spread the new faith to the Macedonians, it is our faith as Orthodox Christians that keeps our identity alive today. Traditionally, Macedonia has been an Orthodox Christian land and, although the picture on the ground might be that of a “Jerusalem of the Balkans “, in the sense that it somehow belongs to both Christianity and Islam, I would much rather people recognise it in the other Jerusalem sense.

One thing that is often brushed aside and not discussed in too much detail is that, for many Muslim Macedonians, their Muslim faith is stronger than their need to be Macedonian. Sure, they identify with the majority Macedonians but their loyalties can be fickle and often divided. For example, the Macedonian Muslims from the Reka region and Golo Brdo, on the whole, can be said identify as Macedonians while the majority of the Muslim Macedonians from Strushko identify primarily as Albanians and Turks and, still others, from regions such as Kichevsko, Zhupa in Debar, Skopska Torbeshija and Pelagonija identify exclusively as Turks, despite Macedonian being their first language.

So contrary to your misguided and seemingly altruistic views, it is of great concern that the Macedonian Orthodox Church remains the dominant religion in Macedonia. I think it was mentioned on another thread that, for every new Orthodox Church that is built in Macedonia, ten more mosques mushroom up in no time. This is of grave concern.

From the 70 mosques in its Ottoman heyday, Bitola now has ten mosques left. Four are functioning while the other six have been converted to museums or cultural and historical monuments. I can't tell you how much of a disappointment it is, as a Bitola native, to see the city skyline marred by these eyesores. For a city that is 89% Macedonian, it is a disproportionate representation of a minority religion in the city. The idiots even spend tonnes of money maintaining these “cultural monuments”. If we must commemorate our slavery under the Turks by keeping these eyesores in Bitola, then my suggestion would be to at least demolish the minarets and put a commemorative plaque on the front lawns describing how Macedonian peasants were forced to build these treasures of Islam over the foundations of the original Orthodox churches that once stood there. Jeni Mosque, in the centre of Bitola, is one such mosque that was apparently built over the foundations of three former orthodox churches, one of which was the church of St. George (which has many legends associated with it).

Ohrid, besides being another majority (80.4% - from Wikipedia) Macedonian city is a tourist hub. Our one and only truly tourist destination, and a 32m minaret has no place in this city. In any other part of the world, it would be reasonable to say that such a thing is not appropriate in the context of its surroundings. So why should it be any different in Macedonia. If Ohrigjani don't want their skyline to turn into another Bitola skyline then they must get really loud over this and reject it outright. Otherwise it will just end up being yet another shameful disgrace for us all.

Have to disagree with you on that one Karposh, your religion has nothing to do with being Macedonian. "A quintessential Macedonian", as you put it does not have to be an Orthodox Christian.

As I said before, Muslim Macedonians are facing assimilative processes from the Albanians which have lead to many of them declaring themselves to be Albanian. The leaders of the Islamic community of Macedonians have repeatedly asked for support from consecutive Macedonian governments to prevent the spread of Albanian assimilation tactics amongst the Muslim Macedonians but they have received little support from the Christo-centric DPMNE. This is a stupid move in my opinion as the DPMNE is meant to be a Nationalist party, yet it makes no sense to alienate proud ethnic Macedonians because of their religion. It is also hypocritical as DPMNE claim ideological decent from VMRO, yet VMRO were secular in their thinking and saw the need for Macedonians to come together irregardless of their religion.

I also believe this is the fourth time I have had to say this because no one seems to be reading this part of my argument; but I have said that I believe a minaret makes no sense in a city like Ohrid and the people of the city have every right to oppose such a pointless contruction effort in their home.
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