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Old 02-28-2010, 06:56 PM   #1
Vangelovski
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Default UMD and John Bitove

Over the years, UMD (and Meto in particular) have developed a close relationship with the Bitove family, and especially John Bitove. At Meto's session in Canberra/Queanbeyan on 8 February 2010, he announced that John Bitove would be a special guest at the UMD Global Conference this year.

But who are the Bitove's? A simple Google search is quite revealing and shows a long history of association with the MPO.

I particularly found this document about the "Bulgarians of Greek Macedonia" co-signed by James Bitove (brother of John) quite disturbing:

http://www.makedonskatribuna.com/DISCLOSURE1960.pdf

UMD's continued promotion of MPO-associated individuals is also quite disturbing.
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Old 02-28-2010, 07:08 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Vangelovski View Post
Over the years, UMD (and Meto in particular) have developed a close relationship with the Bitove family, and especially John Bitove. At Meto's session in Canberra/Queanbeyan on 8 February 2010, he announced that John Bitove would be a special guest at the UMD Global Conference this year.

But who are the Bitove's? A simple Google search is quite revealing and shows a long history of association with the MPO.

I particularly found this document about the "Bulgarians of Greek Macedonia" co-signed by James Bitove (brother of John) quite disturbing:

http://www.makedonskatribuna.com/DISCLOSURE1960.pdf

UMD's continued promotion of MPO-associated individuals is also quite disturbing.
This is realy disturbing.

So is this close relationship with the Bitove family just another "Fuck up" as Buktop once quoted.

Sory for sounding like a wingnut.
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Old 02-28-2010, 07:37 PM   #3
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I don't speak on behalf of UMD but it would pay to note this article: http://umdiaspora.org/content/view/457/1/

The following comments were taken from someone I trust greatly and is independent of any org:

Apparently, the issue was forced to a vote. If it is any relief, it is important to know that this "concern" originated in Canada and not in the USA. Shame on the Canadians who seek to manipulate USA census numbers and weaken our political strength. It doesn't even concern them; they should mind their own business. (Except for Bill, of course; he's one of the good guys.)

Under the decade-long strong leadership of Chris Evanoff, the MPO strongly moderated its perspectives. What has happened (back-pedalling) has only occurred since then (about 18 months) due to internal organizational strife.
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Old 02-28-2010, 07:43 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by MP_MK View Post
I don't speak on behalf of UMD but it would pay to note this article: http://umdiaspora.org/content/view/457/1/

The following comments were taken from someone I trust greatly and is independent of any org:

Apparently, the issue was forced to a vote. If it is any relief, it is important to know that this "concern" originated in Canada and not in the USA. Shame on the Canadians who seek to manipulate USA census numbers and weaken our political strength. It doesn't even concern them; they should mind their own business. (Except for Bill, of course; he's one of the good guys.)

Under the decade-long strong leadership of Chris Evanoff, the MPO strongly moderated its perspectives. What has happened (back-pedalling) has only occurred since then (about 18 months) due to internal organizational strife.

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...ead.php?t=2811

What was moderated? They either consider themselves Macedonians or they don't.
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Old 02-28-2010, 07:47 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Vangelovski View Post
http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...ead.php?t=2811

What was moderated? They either consider themselves Macedonians or they don't.

I would take a guess and say- internal policies and moderating / qualifying new members?

Don't think it would be reasonable to come to the conclusion that the moderation mentioned above, is in respect to considering themselves Maceodnian or not, based on the above quotes.

Last edited by MP_MK; 02-28-2010 at 07:55 PM.
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Old 02-28-2010, 08:43 PM   #6
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I'm no expert on John Bitove, but, in the early 90's he debated a Greek on local television, he did a pretty good job and I don't recall anything about Bulgaria being mentioned in his defense of Macedonia.

Macedonians began arriving in Canada in the late 1800's (my great grandfather included, although he was never a member of the MPO) When the MPO was formed in the early 1900's, it was the only game in town for the pechalbari alone in a strange land. In the 1960's when the United Macedonians started up and the St Clement MOC opened, many people broke ranks with the MPO.

Last edited by El Bre; 02-28-2010 at 08:45 PM.
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Old 02-28-2010, 09:07 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by MP_MK View Post
The following comments were taken from someone I trust greatly and is independent of any org:
Care to mention this "someone I trust greatly" person and why their view would be of any relevance?

Quote:
Apparently, the issue was forced to a vote. If it is any relief, it is important to know that this "concern" originated in Canada and not in the USA. Shame on the Canadians who seek to manipulate USA census numbers and weaken our political strength. It doesn't even concern them; they should mind their own business. (Except for Bill, of course; he's one of the good guys.)
Haha....are you trying to say that "MPO" USA leadership do not consider themselves as ethnic Bulgarians (from Geographic Macedonia)? If you are, you would be sadly DELUDING yourself!

Quote:
Under the decade-long strong leadership of Chris Evanoff, the MPO strongly moderated its perspectives. What has happened (back-pedalling) has only occurred since then (about 18 months) due to internal organizational strife.
MPO moderated nothing and they were more emboldened than ever before with the Bugaroman complete takeover of dpmne in Sept 1997 and subsequently taking Government (1998) and Presidential (1999 via Trajkovski, it is said he was a former MPO member) power in Macedonia.

As for Evanoff, see what he had to say in 2008:


"....The MPO was founded in 1922 based on the truth of our Bulgarian heritage and ethnicity and as well as, an understanding that we are all Macedonian, just as I can say I am an American or Canadian based on my national and geographic consciousness. The MPO was founded on the principle of a free, independent and united Macedonian state representing all ethnicities of people (i.e., Bulgarian, Vlah, Turk, Greek, Serb, Romani) The founding Fathers of the MPO were from the Kostur region of Aegean Macedonia and even before they set foot on American soil they considered themselves as Bulgarians, one of the early members was my Grandfather and his Father considered himself a Bulgarian as my Grandfather would tell the story, all before there was a Bulgarian State. Even after 500 years of Ottoman enslavement and atrocities, as well as, the Greek religious and educational pressures, they still spoke the old Slavonic or old Bulgarian language and lived the village life as Bulgarian Slavs not ethnic Macedonians. It is unfortunate that many of the recent scholars have taken such a Serbo-communist view that was started well before Tito and it is unfortunate again that Tito changed the language and then called it Macedonian. ......

.....I am 42 years old and I am not elderly as you refer but I am old enough to know the truth and I am fortunate that I live in America where I can without fear, speak the truth. Maybe this makes me a relic in the eyes of the new Macedonian community, but they misunderstand their history......the MPO have maintained an untarnished heritage, pristine from Tito and early communist beliefs. My Great Grandmother and Great Grandfather were shot and killed during the Ilinden uprising - they were Bulgarians from Macedonia...."

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...?t=689&page=21
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Old 02-28-2010, 09:12 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by El Bre View Post
I'm no expert on John Bitove, but, in the early 90's he debated a Greek on local television, he did a pretty good job and I don't recall anything about Bulgaria being mentioned in his defense of Macedonia.

Macedonians began arriving in Canada in the late 1800's (my great grandfather included, although he was never a member of the MPO) When the MPO was formed in the early 1900's, it was the only game in town for the pechalbari alone in a strange land. In the 1960's when the United Macedonians started up and the St Clement MOC opened, many people broke ranks with the MPO.
I don't buy that "MPO was the only game in town before 1960", no way!
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Old 02-28-2010, 09:17 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by indigen View Post
Care to mention this "someone I trust greatly" person and why their view would be of any relevance?


Haha....are you trying to say that "MPO" USA leadership do not consider themselves as ethnic Bulgarians (from Geographic Macedonia)? If you are, you would be sadly DELUDING yourself!



MPO moderated nothing and they were more emboldened than ever before with the Bugaroman complete takeover of dpmne in Sept 1997 and subsequently taking Government (1998) and Presidential (1999 via Trajkovski, it is said he was a former MPO member) power in Macedonia.

As for Evanoff, see what he had to say in 2008:


"....The MPO was founded in 1922 based on the truth of our Bulgarian heritage and ethnicity and as well as, an understanding that we are all Macedonian, just as I can say I am an American or Canadian based on my national and geographic consciousness. The MPO was founded on the principle of a free, independent and united Macedonian state representing all ethnicities of people (i.e., Bulgarian, Vlah, Turk, Greek, Serb, Romani) The founding Fathers of the MPO were from the Kostur region of Aegean Macedonia and even before they set foot on American soil they considered themselves as Bulgarians, one of the early members was my Grandfather and his Father considered himself a Bulgarian as my Grandfather would tell the story, all before there was a Bulgarian State. Even after 500 years of Ottoman enslavement and atrocities, as well as, the Greek religious and educational pressures, they still spoke the old Slavonic or old Bulgarian language and lived the village life as Bulgarian Slavs not ethnic Macedonians. It is unfortunate that many of the recent scholars have taken such a Serbo-communist view that was started well before Tito and it is unfortunate again that Tito changed the language and then called it Macedonian. ......

.....I am 42 years old and I am not elderly as you refer but I am old enough to know the truth and I am fortunate that I live in America where I can without fear, speak the truth. Maybe this makes me a relic in the eyes of the new Macedonian community, but they misunderstand their history......the MPO have maintained an untarnished heritage, pristine from Tito and early communist beliefs. My Great Grandmother and Great Grandfather were shot and killed during the Ilinden uprising - they were Bulgarians from Macedonia...."

http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum...?t=689&page=21

Not my place to say who this is as this was taken from a non public conversation. I will say that he was involved with the MK gov and RTG had a visit from him back in 2007. If RTG wants to confirm that he is a trustworthy individual, then he can do so, but naming names when using direct quotes without his permission, would be poor form here on a public forum.

Those quotes are not my quotes and hence not my opinions. SO no need to make comment to me regarding them.
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Old 02-28-2010, 09:30 PM   #10
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Ok, we all know it is Tashkovich. Let's just put it out there.
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