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Old 05-24-2017, 01:18 AM   #51
Risto the Great
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Originally Posted by Liberator of Makedonija View Post
What I meant was that the Archbishopship of Ohrid DID help in maintaining some-sort of Macedonian identity during the Ottoman period
I don't agree. The role of Archbishop was subject to political manipulation and there were all kinds of influences that came into play. It was the people that kept their identity intact by simply adhering to their language and their religion.

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but that we should not rely on it to maintain our identity now due to large demographic changes within Macedonian
I agree.
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Old 05-24-2017, 02:04 AM   #52
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I don't agree. The role of Archbishop was subject to political manipulation and there were all kinds of influences that came into play. It was the people that kept their identity intact by simply adhering to their language and their religion.
You would probably know more than me in reference to this so I can't argue

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I agree.
Glad you share that view Risto, I feel a lot of Macedonians (especially from the Republic) wouldn't like to hear that.
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Old 05-24-2017, 03:33 AM   #53
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Glad you share that view Risto, I feel a lot of Macedonians (especially from the Republic) wouldn't like to hear that.
I would actually like to see a time when ethnic Albanians would feel like they are indeed Macedonians. Just like the Vlachs seem to embrace the Macedonian identity with their own unique twist, so can the ethnic Albanians of Macedonia (in another dimension perhaps).

Greeks seem to be able to do it with their minorities, after decades of brutal oppression, there seems to be a way for "Arvanites" to be the best of Greeks.
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Old 05-24-2017, 04:52 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Risto the Great View Post
I would actually like to see a time when ethnic Albanians would feel like they are indeed Macedonians. Just like the Vlachs seem to embrace the Macedonian identity with their own unique twist, so can the ethnic Albanians of Macedonia (in another dimension perhaps).

Greeks seem to be able to do it with their minorities, after decades of brutal oppression, there seems to be a way for "Arvanites" to be the best of Greeks.
Vlachs are basically the lego blocks for any nation, they are easily assimilated. Albanian identity is too strong for them to ever see themselves as Macedonians but there was a time when Albania and Macedonia were friends (late 19th-early 20th century). Foreign manipulation has created the problems between us.

In response to the Arvanites, Greece claims they are loyal Greeks but they also claim the same for the Macedonians so who knows if that is actually true.
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Old 05-24-2017, 05:57 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Risto the Great View Post
I would actually like to see a time when ethnic Albanians would feel like they are indeed Macedonians. Just like the Vlachs seem to embrace the Macedonian identity with their own unique twist, so can the ethnic Albanians of Macedonia (in another dimension perhaps).

Greeks seem to be able to do it with their minorities, after decades of brutal oppression, there seems to be a way for "Arvanites" to be the best of Greeks.
I don't really care for the shiptari to be Macedonian...I want them to stay shiptar if that's what they prefer, I'd prefer them to leave and go back to Albania or Kosovo if that's what they crave, I just don't want them turning Macedonia into Albania III and thinking they have a 'right' to do that.

The Arvanites are the product of power politics and will remain so, or until the power dynamic shifts in greece.
The minute the greeks lose any semblance of ascendency, those artificially imposed descriptors will vanish and most of the Arvanites will follow the well trodden goat path toward another identity...this is the way of the Balkans, the weak, the oppressed, the apathetic are malleable but this isn't some half-arsed turning shit into gold alchemy but real people that we're talking about and the Arvanites just need a 'sniff' of hope and they'll be gone...carpe diem
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Old 05-24-2017, 06:16 AM   #56
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I do practice Macedonian culture just do not engage in the religious services.
How do you practice it? What do you do?
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Just going off what Gocka and Dragan were saying about bullying Macedonian Muslim children. But the DPMNE haven't exactly been supportive towards them.
A certain level of intolerance exists in all societies and Macedonia is no exception. But if there is some sort of major issue with intolerance from Macedonian Christians towards Macedonian Muslims, I would really like to see the data. Just going off what he said or she said, or the lack of collaboration from a certain political party, doesn't exactly equate to a smoking gun, especially if you ignore how some Macedonian Muslims choose to behave of their own free will.
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.....there was a time when Albania and Macedonia were friends (late 19th-early 20th century).
Name some examples. Let's see how deep this 'friendship' was.
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Foreign manipulation has created the problems between us
Who are the foreigners that created the problems? How did they create them?
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Old 05-24-2017, 08:08 AM   #57
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Interesting, according to this poll (see the map below), Macedonia shows up as the most religious country in Europe - while neighbouring Albania is among the least religious.

https://matadornetwork.com/read/mapp...ous-countries/
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Old 05-24-2017, 08:11 AM   #58
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How do you practice it? What do you do?A certain level of intolerance exists in all societies and Macedonia is no exception. But if there is some sort of major issue with intolerance from Macedonian Christians towards Macedonian Muslims, I would really like to see the data. Just going off what he said or she said, or the lack of collaboration from a certain political party, doesn't exactly equate to a smoking gun, especially if you ignore how some Macedonian Muslims choose to behave of their own free will.
Was not trying to assume something larger other than stating an ironic situation that can occur.

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Name some examples. Let's see how deep this 'friendship' was.
I have seen examples on these forums. Namely a magazine on 'Macedonia and Albania' and some Albanians being involved with VMRO

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Who are the foreigners that created the problems? How did they create them?
Fascist Italy stirred up this 'Greater Albania' bullshit to expand their own influence in the Balkans. Americans are now milking the idea to further their own ambitions in the Balkans.
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Old 05-24-2017, 08:34 AM   #59
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As I have said in the past a "greater" whatever county will only occur if it is the will of the powers that be.. appetites of balkan states to expend territory is equally desired should it be offered by all... There isn't a state thay feels that borders were drawn up against them in someway or another during confrences of the great powers...

I believe that there is a larger geopolitical game being played in the background between the EU-USA and Russia at the detriment of the everyday balkan citizen. The larger Russia's involvement in the region, the larger the reciprocity from the US-EU will be to push for their own strategic geoplitical goals and influences.
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Old 05-24-2017, 08:42 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by Liberator of Makedonija View Post
I have seen examples on these forums. Namely a magazine on 'Macedonia and Albania' and some Albanians being involved with VMRO
These examples are mostly negligible and hardly constitute a 'friendship'.
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Fascist Italy stirred up this 'Greater Albania' bullshit to expand their own influence in the Balkans.
The notion of a "Greater Albania" existed long before Fascist Italy.
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I do practice Macedonian culture just do not engage in the religious services.
I think you missed my other question in relation to the above statement. How do you practice it? What do you do?
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