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Old 09-07-2018, 02:14 PM   #1
kajce
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Default Ethnogenesis of the Macedonians?

I found this forum earlier this year and I've been reading a lot of theories on the origins of the Macedonian people and who they were. I've seen theories regarding the original Macedonian tribes, a Brygian origin, as well as a Thracian relation. But perhaps the most interesting one I've seen (several times here) is that the Macedonians were a mix of Brygian speaking groups that united under one banner (Thracians, Paeonians, Illyrians, etc.). Others have also suggested that these ancient peoples, mixed (either completely or just to a degree) with the migrating Slavs/Turkic peoples that arrived in the Balkans. I was hoping to get your guys' opinions on what the ethnogenesis of modern Macedonians entails.
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Old 09-08-2018, 09:28 PM   #2
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I don't know much about this topic really but was wondering these "tribes" your describing; were they located in the whole region of Macedonia or just in the area of what is the republic of Macedonia today? Also I was always of the belief/under the impression that the Macedonians were an ancient people who were native to the region of Macedonia/the balkans. Sorry to answer your question with a question but you ask "what the ethnogenesis of modern Macedonians entails" As said earlier I don't know much about this sort of stuff, so I am wondering would't the modern ethnogenesis of Macedonian's be the same as the ancient ones? Like did the ancient Macedonians just vanish where did they go too that their needed to be new modern ones?
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Old 09-09-2018, 11:17 AM   #3
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Various tribes inhabited Macedonia in antiquity and the more prominent among them certainly contributed to the development of a distinct Macedonian nation. But even after that development, Macedonia (and much of the Balkans, for that matter) was invaded by different people during different periods. This doesn't mean the legacy of our earlier ancestors had been wiped out, it just means that other influences also had an impact on the evolution of our culture and DNA. The same can be said for many other peoples. Just one example I have used in the past, the French. Their ancient ancestors had a Celtic origin, their language has a Latin origin, their ethnic name has a Germanic origin and many of their celebrated historical figures have a Scandinavian origin. Yet irrespective of this concoction, nobody seems to have an issue with their national narrative or status as the indigenous population of France. Macedonians should never look at themselves as any less valid despite the deception of our enemies and treachery of our politicians. We are the indigenous people of Macedonia and rightful heirs to that heritage.
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Old 09-09-2018, 07:18 PM   #4
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Thanks for the explanation I understand this better now
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Old 09-10-2018, 12:39 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
Various tribes inhabited Macedonia in antiquity and the more prominent among them certainly contributed to the development of a distinct Macedonian nation. But even after that development, Macedonia (and much of the Balkans, for that matter) was invaded by different people during different periods. This doesn't mean the legacy of our earlier ancestors had been wiped out, it just means that other influences also had an impact on the evolution of our culture and DNA. The same can be said for many other peoples. Just one example I have used in the past, the French. Their ancient ancestors had a Celtic origin, their language has a Latin origin, their ethnic name has a Germanic origin and many of their celebrated historical figures have a Scandinavian origin. Yet irrespective of this concoction, nobody seems to have an issue with their national narrative or status as the indigenous population of France. Macedonians should never look at themselves as any less valid despite the deception of our enemies and treachery of our politicians. We are the indigenous people of Macedonia and rightful heirs to that heritage.

Well said, summed up perfectly.
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Old 09-11-2018, 01:12 AM   #6
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Spot on. I also always use the French as an example.

The reality is that Europe is probably one of the worlds largest melting pots. Because of its long history, every century brought new invaders, particularly in the Balkans. We are not only one of the oldest inhabited regions in the world, but also at a crossroads of east and west.

We are probably so mixed that its impossible to boil it down to even a few origins, but there is almost no other place in Europe that is any different other than the far northern regions like Scandinavia.

Southern Europe is especially mixed. You had native populations, migrations and invasions from North Africa, Asia, Northern and Western Europe.

In the end, its all meaningless to the concept of nationality and nationhood.

We could be more Greek than the Greeks for all we know, god knows they don't look anything like the people described in their precious history.

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Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
Various tribes inhabited Macedonia in antiquity and the more prominent among them certainly contributed to the development of a distinct Macedonian nation. But even after that development, Macedonia (and much of the Balkans, for that matter) was invaded by different people during different periods. This doesn't mean the legacy of our earlier ancestors had been wiped out, it just means that other influences also had an impact on the evolution of our culture and DNA. The same can be said for many other peoples. Just one example I have used in the past, the French. Their ancient ancestors had a Celtic origin, their language has a Latin origin, their ethnic name has a Germanic origin and many of their celebrated historical figures have a Scandinavian origin. Yet irrespective of this concoction, nobody seems to have an issue with their national narrative or status as the indigenous population of France. Macedonians should never look at themselves as any less valid despite the deception of our enemies and treachery of our politicians. We are the indigenous people of Macedonia and rightful heirs to that heritage.
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Old 09-11-2018, 02:29 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Gocka View Post
We could be more Greek than the Greeks for all we know...
I think in some respects there is more truth to that than anyone of us would care to admit...
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Old 09-11-2018, 04:31 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gocka View Post
We are probably so mixed that its impossible to boil it down to even a few origins, but there is almost no other place in Europe that is any different other than the far northern regions like Scandinavia.

Southern Europe is especially mixed. You had native populations, migrations and invasions from North Africa, Asia, Northern and Western Europe.

In the end, its all meaningless to the concept of nationality and nationhood.

We could be more Greek than the Greeks for all we know, god knows they don't look anything like the people described in their precious history.
You should take that test then, like I did.

N. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWzwWz1m9Ks

Bojan https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeozlC6Twfc
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Old 09-11-2018, 06:02 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gocka View Post
Spot on. I also always use the French as an example.

The reality is that Europe is probably one of the worlds largest melting pots. Because of its long history, every century brought new invaders, particularly in the Balkans. We are not only one of the oldest inhabited regions in the world, but also at a crossroads of east and west.

We are probably so mixed that its impossible to boil it down to even a few origins, but there is almost no other place in Europe that is any different other than the far northern regions like Scandinavia.

Southern Europe is especially mixed. You had native populations, migrations and invasions from North Africa, Asia, Northern and Western Europe.

In the end, its all meaningless to the concept of nationality and nationhood.

We could be more Greek than the Greeks for all we know, god knows they don't look anything like the people described in their precious history.
According to Strabo Thracians were the majority in Macedonia. The original borders of Macedonia yet it still includes Mygdones, a Thracian tribe north of Chalkidiki.

Not to mention Macedonians settled all the way to India and Egypt.

Last edited by tchaiku; 09-11-2018 at 06:09 AM.
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Old 09-11-2018, 12:11 PM   #10
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Define French

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