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Old 06-25-2015, 06:17 AM   #71
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Dragan
Why did he side with SDSM? Do you think it's because of the political betrayl he talks about in his commentary?
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Old 06-25-2015, 09:33 AM   #72
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Anyone taking arms agains't Macedonia is a a terrorist.It goes without saying all those that participated in the 2001 war and 2015 were terrorists.It was an armed rebelliuon agains't the Macedonian govt.It was a war that the terrorists started by them and led to the eventual capitulation of the govt.Had the govt got the nouse to fight it out without interference there would be no ohrid agreement etc all the demise for the Macedonian people.Yes sdsm are real scumbags ,fleabgs wanting to rip Macedonia all the more.
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Old 06-26-2015, 03:12 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by makedonche View Post
Dragan
Why did he side with SDSM? Do you think it's because of the political betrayl he talks about in his commentary?
The political betrayel came from both DPMNE and SDSM,as both parties signed the capitulation of Macedonia in Ohrid.So,him siding with any of them makes no sense to me.
I understand that a newly-formed political party (the association of the 2001 war veterans "Dostoinstvo" he transformed in a political party) would need some kind of back-up from a larger party but siding with traitors was a bad move for them.
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Old 06-26-2015, 05:56 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by DraganOfStip View Post
The political betrayel came from both DPMNE and SDSM,as both parties signed the capitulation of Macedonia in Ohrid.So,him siding with any of them makes no sense to me.
I understand that a newly-formed political party (the association of the 2001 war veterans "Dostoinstvo" he transformed in a political party) would need some kind of back-up from a larger party but siding with traitors was a bad move for them.
Dragan
Agreed!
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Old 08-30-2015, 01:21 PM   #75
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LINK „2001: Војната во Македонија низ објектив"
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Old 03-19-2017, 06:33 PM   #76
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Don't know if this has been posted before, admins can delete this post if so.

Apparently, an american politician from the democratic party, a certain Glenn Nye, organized the evacuation of 26 US military contractors from Arachinovo in the shameful 2001 event that ended the battle of Arachinovo.
At the time he was an employee in the US embassy in Macedonia, and received an award from the US government for this action (!):




Till this day the sudden stop of the Arachinovo campaign and the subsequent shameful extraction of the terrorists is a subject to debates as to how and why the Macedonian authorities, especially then-president Boris Trajkovski as the commander-in-chief of all armed forces could allow such a thing (if you recall, there were riots that night and huge mass of angry people gathered in front of the Assembly demanding weapons and the president's head), especially after on the third day of the campaign the terrorists were defeated and raised a white flag.
Many conspiracy theories were in circulation, and this seems to confirm the most frequent one - Boris Trajkovski was intimidated with NATO airstrikes if the campaign wasn't ended and the terrorists (along with the 26 american instructors) weren't allowed to walk away.
According to the website that brings the story, this Glenn character confirmed the extraction of these 26 americans on several occasions and was awarded the State Department's Superior Honor Award for his role in the extraction.

Now, unofficially all of this was more or less known to the public, but when the US government actually presented this award to this guy, in a certain way it confirmed that the Albanian terrorists of 2001 were trained and helped by US military contractors.
Then,why on earth didn't our government issue a protest note or something?
They're not hiding this any more, they've gone public and not one Macedonian official bats an eye?
That is utter disgrace and disrespect to all Macedonians that lost their lives defending their country!
May your souls burn in hell!

Link to the article: http://www.mkd.mk/makedonija/politik...ile-izvlecheni
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Old 03-19-2017, 09:14 PM   #77
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Perhaps a good question to USA would be "did Trajkovski do enough to satisfy USA threats in relation to USA support for Albanian terrorists in Macedonia or did you have to kill him also?"
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Old 03-24-2017, 06:56 PM   #78
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As far as I’m concerned, this thing with the US congressman kind of vindicates the young men that were defending Macedonia back in 2001 and, more importantly, it vindicates Macedonians in general. I’ll explain why.

A few years ago now, I had the misfortune of viewing a Vasko Eftov documentary titled “Vistinata za Aracinovo” which attempted to shed some light on, what is now, the confirmed presence of US military instructors fighting alongside Albanians in Aracinovo. Far from shedding light on the matter, and since there was no real evidence at the time of proving otherwise, I found the whole documentary confusing and even a little bit disturbing.

Since it was apparent to all that the betrayal came from our own spineless politicians due to NATO and EU pressure, I was gobsmacked to see how the same scumbag politicians tried to save their stinking hides in the doco by shamefully blaming the Macedonian defenders (and, by default, Macedonians in general) for the shitty episode that was Aracinovo. Watching the documentary now, with the hindsight of knowing about the covert (and not so covert) role that the US and the EU played back then, some of the politician’s comments smack of desperation to save face before the country. It’s just shockingly incredible to see how the highest echelon of Macedonian politics of the time, put the blame squarely on the Macedonian army for their lack of will and determination to remove the terrorist threat in Aracinovo on time and, consequently, for creating a stalemate that “forced” the west to react the way that it did. There was a lot of disinformation back then that was tactfully and efficiently put into place that suggested the Macedonians themselves are to blame for what happened at Aracinovo for not having the balls to deal with the issue on time, and not the politicians. The politicians washed their stinking hands off the whole sordid affair and, in their own eyes, came out clean.

Unfortunately, that view, of some inherent, cowardly, national trait that Macedonians are deemed to possess has stuck. Unfairly, I might add. What we have now is a very humiliating perception of a typically Macedonian characteristic of cowardice, which is prevalent among Macedonians and non-Macedonians alike. The self deprecating comments that are often voiced by Macedonians regarding the real reasons for Albanian cockiness in Macedonia are a by-product of the 2001 conflict and courtesy of Macedonia’s politicians. It’s almost as if we have a collective complex regarding Aracinovo and our failure to deal with the Albanians effectively when it mattered most. It’s not something we like to talk about and we look back on the whole episode as a shameful page in our very recent history, especially when you consider that we were served with the Ohrid fait accompli immediately afterwards. In fact, the very name “Aracinovo” fills us with uncomfortable feelings of emasculation, demoralisation and humiliation.

One thing that Eftov does mention, which I agree with, is that, from the testimonies given by the interviewees, there are three versions of events surrounding Aracinovo: one Albanian and two Macedonian.

The Albanian version is a typically cocky “We were not defeated. NATO evacuated us to save you from us and not the other way around”.

The first Macedonian version (as given by General Pande Petrovski and Lyube Boshkovski) is that, by the third day, the Albanians had had enough and were waving white flags. Only the west’s interference in trying to rescue the US operatives inside Aracinovo saved the Albanians from total annihilation that day.

The second Macedonian version (as given by Stevo Pederovski, Lybomir Frchkovski and Nikola Dimitrov) was that we were never even close to breaking the stalemate. The Macedonian army apparently had no stomach for losing significant numbers of its personnel by being forced to fight house to house in close quarters style combat. On top of that, all the talk of foreign nationals being in Aracinovo and the army’s supposed success and progress was apparently just bad propaganda for the consumption of the Macedonian public but it was far from being the truth.

So what is the truth? If nothing else, at least we know one thing for certain today and that is that there were definitely American military contractors in Aracinovo who were advising Albanians on how to best fight and kill Macedonian soldiers. This confirmed information alone should be enough of a catalyst for a much needed inquiry in Macedonia to make politicians such as Stevo Pederovski, Nikola Dimitrov and Lybomir Frchkovski, to name a few, sweat it out a bit and explain exactly what they knew about the Americans in Aracinovo. Why would the Macedonian president at the time, Boris Trajkovski, make that treacherous phone call to General Pande Petrovski and order him to cease all military operations against the Albanians when, by all accounts (from the General himself) victory was moments away? Did he and other politicians genuinely believe NATO and the EU that the evacuation of those who wished to destroy Macedonia was a necessity to prevent an escalation of the situation? Could they really have been that naďve? What about the recent intrusions into Macedonian airspace by American Chinook helicopters dropping “vital humanitarian supplies” to Albanians in Shipkovica? Did the memory of that incident simply fade away into oblivion?

I don’t buy the argument that the NATO and EU meddling into Macedonia’s internal affairs was due to concerns of a possible slide into all out civil war with the Albanians and here’s why. If you watch the documentary in full, the EU apparently gave an unofficial green light to Macedonia to deal with the Albanians in Aracinovo within an allotted timeframe of two days (as testified by many of the interviewees). I have a couple of questions regarding this EU directive. Firstly, who authorised the EU to make such decisions on behalf of Macedonia’s national defence strategy? Secondly, and more importantly, are we to believe that an all out assault in the first day or two would not have resulted in civil war but somehow, magically, the Macedonian army’s success on the third day was seen as “madness” by NATO reps and that an all-out bloody civil war was imminent had the Macedonian army continued with its operations.

According to Stevo Pederovski, we never once came close to taking the village. The announcements which suggested otherwise were apparently made for propaganda purposes (25:32 to 25:51). Of course he will say that won’t he. Otherwise he has to stand accountable, along with many others, for one of the most treacherous acts in recent Macedonian history.

NATO's Secretary General at the time, Lord George Robertson, supports Pederovski’s views, saying, with a smirk, “They (Macedonians) killed a lot of cows, for example; they damaged a lot of buildings but didn’t actually injure or kill a single one of those who were involved on the assault of the army itself” (23:10 to 23:24). Interestingly, this is in direct contradiction with the Albanian commander Hodja’s version (22:23 to 22:30) where he says he had “six dead and seventeen wounded fighters”. Lord George Robertson is actually minimising the Macedonian army’s efforts even more so than the Albanian commander it would seem.

Pederovski continues (26:55 to 27:10) “Since they were dug in the basement of the houses and all around, they were very well fortified and I don’t see how we could have taken the village with that strategy that we had”. This is in direct contradiction with General Pande Petrovski’s assertions (27:10 to 27:17) “We found nothing, not even a single mine, let alone supposed fortifications”. Who’s telling the truth here – The guys defending Macedonia, who didn’t want the operations to end, or the politicians and their scare mongering, trying to justify their decision for an end to the assault which caused such uproar in Macedonia?

Following are some of the more interesting quotes from the documentary with regards to the supposed foreign presence in Aracinovo. Note the progressive tones of frustration and belligerent arrogance coming from NATO reps over the Macedonian insistence about there being foreign (i.e. NATO) mercenaries in the Albanian ranks:

Stoyan Andov (19:45 to 19:55): “I think it was planned ahead and that it was no coincidence that there were 17 American experts” (As it turns out, there were 26).

Nikola Dimitrov (20:29 to 20:45): “Aracinovo wasn’t a victory that was foiled by foreigners. I think the atmosphere was too explosive at that time for that to be made public and, in some ways, we allowed the public to think that victory was prevented by foreigners…That was Aracinovo”.

Ljubcho Georgievski (34:36 to 35:06): “With regards to Aracinovo, it’s not a question of whether some village will more or less fall or not. Rather, the problem with Aracinovo was that we could have captured, on the spot, people who, if captured alive, could’ve solved our whole crisis before the international community. I believe that in Aracinovo there were foreign mercenaries and instructors which would have been very beneficial for Macedonia had we captured them in that situation”.

Ljube Boshkovski (37:40 to 37:52): “It’s a fact that within the ranks of UCK there were foreign mercenaries. Some say they were American soldiers or instructors, others say they were English”.

Hansjorg Eiff, former NATO ambassador to Macedonia (37:52 to 37:58): “Never, never. Why? It’s absolute nonsense”.

Mark Leighty, NATO representative (37:58 to 38:30): “There was no special forces, no Americans, nobody, other than the NLA there”.

Mark Leighty (38:40 to 38:46): “The only people who fighting in Aracinovo were the NLA”.

General Pande Petrovski (39:10 to 39:30): “Upon their (NATO reps) arrival in Aracinovo, to the place where we took them, straight away they asked of me to prolong the evacuation time, not up to 8:00 PM but after 8:00 PM. Immediately, I understood why, so that we don’t see who and what they are evacuating”.

Hansjorg Eiff (39:36 to 39:41): “This is very…this is very, very bad propaganda!”

I’ll give the final word to our very own, Stevo Pederovski (39:41 to 39:51): “Following all checks that I was able to make and all announcements that I was able read, both from internal sources and external, there were no American instructors in Aracinovo”.

Now the question remains, was he speaking out of his bum and did he and other politicians in fact know about the Americans in Aracinovo and were forced to bring the Macedonian army’s operation to a premature end by NATO in order to evacuate them? Or, did the Macedonian government itself ask NATO and the EU to intervene, as has been suggested, to prevent a slide into all-out civil war?

Armed with the knowledge of what we now know to be true, about the Americans in Aracinovo, I think this can no longer be swept under the carpet and a real stink needs to be kicked up in Macedonia and the tough questions asked. In Australia, when an issue has reached a point where there is intense public interest, a public inquiry is undertaken in the form of a Royal Commission. I think the time is right to have something similar in Macedonia by putting some pressure on them to come clean about any knowledge they may have had regarding the real reasons for the terrorists being bussed out to fight another day, in air-conditioned comfort, with their weapons in hand and under a US military escort.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEnGfCFMneA
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Old 03-25-2017, 04:00 AM   #79
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The first Macedonian version (as given by General Pande Petrovski and Lyube Boshkovski) is that, by the third day, the Albanians had had enough and were waving white flags. Only the west’s interference in trying to rescue the US operatives inside Aracinovo saved the Albanians from total annihilation that day.
Yes, I remember seeing the terrorists waving the white flags on TV, this is true. And all first-hand accounts of Macedonian defenders who participated in the battle claim the same - the terrorists were on the brink of defeat and as it turned out, only the presence of these American contractors saved them from total annihilation.

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It’s just shockingly incredible to see how the highest echelon of Macedonian politics of the time, put the blame squarely on the Macedonian army for their lack of will and determination to remove the terrorist threat in Aracinovo on time and, consequently, for creating a stalemate that “forced” the west to react the way that it did. There was a lot of disinformation back then that was tactfully and efficiently put into place that suggested the Macedonians themselves are to blame for what happened at Aracinovo for not having the balls to deal with the issue on time, and not the politicians.
The security forces were more than ready to answer the task, it is the orders from the high command that prevented them from doing their job to the fullest.
I remember when my dad was dispatched on the Kumanovo front in 2001, he told me afterwards that they had strict orders not to engage unless they were fired upon first. And even when they do, it would be only to defend themselves until the threat stopped (meaning, if the terrorists stop firing, they should stop too). He told me that he could see one of them just 100-150 m away coming out of his trench and pissing right in front of them,as he knew they weren't allowed to shoot him. This kind of approach was doomed from the beginning. Had Tanushevci been turned to ashes at the beginning of the conflict, I think the entire thing would have gone into a different direction. If our security forces had their hands untied and encouraged to take relentless and decisive actions against the threat, it would have been an entirely different story.
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