DPmNE's track record

[Phoenix]

What I'm really hoping to see is this sort of thing in front of that cesspool of treason some call the Macedonian Parliament. However, as most of us know, these types of Macedonians are all but extinct today.

They would've known exactly how to deal with the traitors inside. And they were really good at it too. Just listen to Nikola Karev explain this point to some malaka that interviewed him in Bitola all those years ago:

Greek Journalist: Then why do you murder Greek notables, priests and teachers if you have nothing against anyone?

Nikola Karev: These are lies. The Committee doesn't only kill Greeks, but Bulgarians, Serbs and Turks and anyone else that betrays us.

...just look at France, they've put up the price of croissants and the frogs are burning down Paris...Macedonians are being sold down the river and not even a fire cracker has been thrown in anger...

[Phoenix]

I expect the people living in that country to make their politicians accountable for their actions. I think it is piss weak to try and lay any blame on the diaspora for what is happening in that dying country.

...they alone are the architects of their demise...useless fuckin' cunts.

[Phoenix]

I expect the people living in that country to make their politicians accountable for their actions. I think it is piss weak to try and lay any blame on the diaspora for what is happening in that dying country.

I've been following a few Macedonian contributors on Twitter...journalists, supporters of the Macedonian cause, HR campaigners and the like but I think most are missing the real issue and the root of the problem and the only viable escape from this catastrophe...nearly all have a beef with the Macedonian government, the EU and USA, as if any of these entities will change course, when the only power for change is in the hands of the citizens themselves...the indifference, apathy and inaction of the citizens is rarely, if ever addressed by any Tweet from any of these individuals/groups...it proves the point that people have been making here ad nauseam that theres an expectation that somebody else will save the day while the citizens sit back with a ciggie in one hand and a tursko in the other shooting the shit...

[Gocka]

Yes Rogi, if you compare the two SDSM was probably more honest about their positions. Yes prior to the elections they made promises which honestly no one believed. After the elections, for how many months were they promoting their name change deal? The referendum was on the table for how many months? They spent the better part of a year telling people what is going to happen, while DPMNE hid in the corner and hoped no one would ask them any questions. Then they day after the referendum they pop out and say "THIS IS AN OUTRAGE". Give me a break. DPMNE were worried that they would lose too many voters if they came out vehemently against the name deal, they also feared they would lose voters if they supported it, so they did nothing like the rest of Macedonia. We were all there, we can't rewrite history.

SDSM was the honest one?

Hold on Gocka, SDSM promised before the election that they would not change the name, the leader of that party swore on the life of his children and on his last breath that the name and the constitution would not change.

They also signed a letter to the President, which was the basis upon which their mandate was given, that no Tirana platform existed, another thing they said they would not do.

So yes, people should be in front of their homes too.

Macedonians don't need to be radical. Its not fucking hard to protest to vote for your ideals. The things that normal people do in normal democracies everyday in the rest of the normal world. We don't expect people to pick up their guns and start shooting, its not even remotely necessary. If Macedonians were truly against the name change in mass numbers, why didn't they go out and vote NO, and push the referendum to 90% turnout 60% NO? Do you know why and how the boycott started? Because everyone knew we couldn't win the referendum. Because people are fucking lazy and they wouldn't go vote.

And if Macedonians need to do more and be more radical about it, what are you doing, what am I doing, what are we all on here doing? Are we expecting someone else to do something more meaningful?

We at LOMA spent hours upon hours organizing, calling, writing, advocating, we even sent fucking money. As did all diaspora groups. The mother fuckers in NMK couldn't even go out and protest for 1 hour. The Bojkatiram movement was started, funded, and executed from the DIASPORA. Those lazy bums in NMK couldn't even organize a boycott, which involved doing NOTHING!

What more should we have done? Bought 300,000 plane tickets and transplanted the entire diaspora there for a day to protest?

Macedonians in NMK are the voters. You live in the country. You voted for SDSM, you voted for DPMNE, they hand out jobs and favors to YOU not me. I have nothing to fucking gain only lose. Macedonian in NMK are the ones that have something to gain from actually running their country like a normal country.

Thank you! If we could muster even 1/10 of that bravery, this shit would have been over before it started. Those men chose death, these fuckers can't even give up their coffee for a day.

What I'm really hoping to see is this sort of thing in front of that cesspool of treason some call the Macedonian Parliament. However, as most of us know, these types of Macedonians are all but extinct today.

They would've known exactly how to deal with the traitors inside. And they were really good at it too. Just listen to Nikola Karev explain this point to some malaka that interviewed him in Bitola all those years ago:


Greek Journalist: Then why do you murder Greek notables, priests and teachers if you have nothing against anyone?

Nikola Karev: These are lies. The Committee doesn't only kill Greeks, but Bulgarians, Serbs and Turks and anyone else that betrays us.

People there seem to think we are asking them all to commit suicide in order to stop the name change. They make up bullshit conspiracies that SDSM are throwing people in jail left and right that they may even be killed by the police t to justify their inaction, they are all so scared boo hoo. Bunch of fucking lairs and peasants.

I expect the people living in that country to make their politicians accountable for their actions. I think it is piss weak to try and lay any blame on the diaspora for what is happening in that dying country.

I have been saying this to everyone lately. Like I started this debate, the evidence is irrefutable that people do not freaking care. Even if they say they care, their actions prove otherwise.

When LOMA would tweet things motivating action, people told us we are SDSM stooges. We are accused of all sorts of garbage simply for asking people to be ACTIVE. We called for protests, we called for people to not sit home, we were called traitors in return. The "smart" plan was to sit home and wait it out.

I'm sick of these cowards and all the bullshit they tell to justify their cowardice. These people deserve the most brutal of dictatorships, maybe that will shake up their tiny little brains and balls.

...just look at France, they've put up the price of croissants and the frogs are burning down Paris...Macedonians are being sold down the river and not even a fire cracker has been thrown in anger...

I've been following a few Macedonian contributors on Twitter...journalists, supporters of the Macedonian cause, HR campaigners and the like but I think most are missing the real issue and the root of the problem and the only viable escape from this catastrophe...nearly all have a beef with the Macedonian government, the EU and USA, as if any of these entities will change course, when the only power for change is in the hands of the citizens themselves...the indifference, apathy and inaction of the citizens is rarely, if ever addressed by any Tweet from any of these individuals/groups...it proves the point that people have been making here ad nauseam that theres an expectation that somebody else will save the day while the citizens sit back with a ciggie in one hand and a tursko in the other shooting the shit...

[Risto the Great]

...they alone are the architects of their demise...useless fuckin' cunts.

Once the inevitable happens, I bet they will be asking why we didn't do anything to help them. To quote Yoda "The victim is strong in them".

I've been following a few Macedonian contributors on Twitter...journalists, supporters of the Macedonian cause, HR campaigners and the like but I think most are missing the real issue and the root of the problem and the only viable escape from this catastrophe...nearly all have a beef with the Macedonian government, the EU and USA, as if any of these entities will change course, when the only power for change is in the hands of the citizens themselves...the indifference, apathy and inaction of the citizens is rarely, if ever addressed by any Tweet from any of these individuals/groups...it proves the point that people have been making here ad nauseam that theres an expectation that somebody else will save the day while the citizens sit back with a ciggie in one hand and a tursko in the other shooting the shit...

They are such compliant lemmings. They need an equivalent of Lee Kuan Yew of Singapore to stand up and sort this tiny country out over the next 20 years!

A nice quote by Lee Kuan Yew: "In a different world we need to find a niche for ourselves, little corners where in spite of our small size we can perform a role which will be useful to the world. To do that, you will need people at the top, decision-makers who have got foresight, good minds, who are open to ideas, who can seize opportunities like we did... My job really was to find my successors. I found them, they are there; their job is to find their successors. So there must be this continuous renewal of talented, dedicated, honest, able people who will do things not for themselves but for their people and for their country. If they can do that, they will carry on for another one generation and so it goes on. The moment that breaks, it's gone."

[Soldier of Macedon]

People can say whatever they want about Lee Kuan Yew with respect to his authoritarian approach or what have you, but the fact is, his leadership is the reason why Singapore became something out of nothing. And what a something it became, serving as a business hub for the region. Compare that to Malaysia, who basically booted Singapore out of their country, had much more going for it in terms of size, population and resources, yet still lag behind Singapore in nearly every measurable way. An equivalent of Lee Kuan Yew is exactly what Macedonia needs.

[Carlin]

VMRO and UBK organized April 27, Ivanov was supposed to declare martial law:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sttn7-5mb2c

[Gocka]

So Rogi, I think you can check off storming of the parliament as one of your examples of how much Macedonians care about everything, what do you say?

No one in Macedonia gives a damn or does anything unless a political party or any party for that matter, forces them or pays them to do it.

There hasn't been a single organic grassroots movement in the country in years, maybe ever. There was not revolt on the parliament, there was no boycott movement. DPMNE stops paying and handing out jobs, their supporters couldn't give a flying fuck about what is happening.

VMRO and UBK organized April 27, Ivanov was supposed to declare martial law:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sttn7-5mb2c

[Phoenix]

...No one in Macedonia gives a damn or does anything unless a political party or any party for that matter, forces them or pays them to do it...

I think this has been acknowledged previously, where there was the slightest doubt in the past, it can now be totally eliminated.

The blind allegiance that Macedonians show their political parties and the political power to manipulate the judiciary and media is the foundation of the dysfunction that has destroyed the country, not by the hand of our external enemies but from within and by our own hand.

[Rogi]

I don't buy it whatsoever. I'm also not willing to completely give up on our people in the darkest period of need. The rhetoric on here is leading to that.

Gocka, the President has denied what SDSM have claimed. I'm surprised you take all of their accusations as truth, but nobody elses view.

[Risto the Great]

I don't buy it whatsoever. I'm also not willing to completely give up on our people in the darkest period of need. The rhetoric on here is leading to that.

That's almost like the Gruevski "master plan" where the full extent of the amazing agenda for Macedonia's prosperity will be revealed at precisely the right time.

Go on, let us know how you will herd the cats.

I haven't given up on them either. But they will clearly have to ask for help (instead of asking for North Macedonia) first.

[Rogi]

Risto, nowhere did I say there was a plan. Only that I don't think we should be giving up on our people.

We certainly have weaknesses in our culture and psyche, things that lead to sayings like "наведена глава сабје не сечи", which is a battle in and of itself in trying to be a nation of people that would stand up and do something.

But I think the anxiety, distaste, revolt and anger is bubbling to the point where the ingredients for a revolution, even among a passive nation like ours, are there, or just about there.

[Gocka]

By giving up on our people do you mean DPMNE? This is hardly the darkest period. Macedonia and Macedonians have seen much much worse. The only dark part of all of this has been the pathetic response of the people. The rhetoric is merely a reflection of the truth.

We are more than willing to put everything aside and assist in any way we can, but like RTG said, that would require them to ask for help.

I don't buy it whatsoever. I'm also not willing to completely give up on our people in the darkest period of need. The rhetoric on here is leading to that.

The President denied HIS involvement and HIS cabinet's, particularly the accusations that he planed to issue a state of emergency. He danced around all the other allegations. Everyone has known from the beginning that DPMNE was behind the parliament incident. Also he has to deny it because admitting any involvement is confessing to a felony.

This has nothing to do with believing SDSM. I have just as little faith in one party as the other, its a matter of looking at the facts. They all lie in order to cover their ass's, and that is what DPMNE is doing.

Gocka, the President has denied what SDSM have claimed. I'm surprised you take all of their accusations as truth, but nobody elses view.

So lets get this straight. Macedonians were angry enough and willing to break into parliament and attack people for what was really no good reason at all, BUT after months of treason and having their collective dignity trampled on, no one feels compelled to do anything?

Can you see why its so hard to believe that the actions against the parliament were organic?

You might see my rhetoric as defeatist and pessimistic, but I am firmly of the mindset that you can not get on the right path if you can not fully acknowledge and accept that you are on the wrong one. There are still way too many excuses coming out of NMK. No one wants to take responsibility and first and foremost point the finger at themselves.

As long as Macedonians refuse to acknowledge their own mistakes and their own contribution to the current and past problems then nothing will ever change.

Macedonians are constantly convinced and that nothing is their own fault. That more powerful forces than themselves are constantly in control and that some other more powerful force will come and fix everything someday.

Go back a few years and I had one of the softest approaches of most of the members on here. That approach was totally wrong. Macedonians are not deserving of and are unresponsive to the benefit of the doubt. That need to be pummeled and pounded with he brutal truth until it hurts too much to ignore.

[Gocka]

Its both brother. Our weakness and idiocy and indecency is what leaves the door wide open for opportunistic external forces to fulfill their goals at our expense. When you whore yourself out, you will get unapologetically fucked.

Its not the responsibility of other nations to protect OUR identity, OUR dignity, OUR sovereignty, if we don't give a damn about those things, why should any else. Nationalism is a brutal business, its eat or be eaten. You want to be a nation, you want to have your sovereignty, then you have to stand up for yourself.

I think this has been acknowledged previously, where there was the slightest doubt in the past, it can now be totally eliminated.

The blind allegiance that Macedonians show their political parties and the political power to manipulate the judiciary and media is the foundation of the dysfunction that has destroyed the country, not by the hand of our external enemies but from within and by our own hand.

[Rogi]

Gocka, I mean our people, the Macedonian people.

In my mind this is the darkest period in Macedonian history because in most all of Macedonia's tragic history, there has been a war, a defeat and an occupation, which then gives you an enemy to rise up against and we've had various uprisings.

This time, it is the Macedonians themselves giving it all up, it's much more difficult to come back from that. Who do you rise up against in the years to come, if it doesn't happen now.

It's easy enough to say Macedonians must stand up and defend their identity now, and blame them for not doing so. I'm sure that it is not that they don't care, I think it is more about not knowing how to do anything or what to do and I think that is deep rooted into the culture, one of following orders from someone with authority and keeping your head down, with almost no spark of self-organisation among all of the generations of the current living population. So when we keep bashing them for not rising, that wont do anything other than give them just one more group 'against' them, the Diaspora. I think they don't know how to rise up, but I dont think its because they don't care - it's also why Macedonia became independent the way it did and when it did.