Prespa Agreement

[Liberator of Makedonija]

First breach/unfriendly move by Greece?

That sign is for the village of Gorno Nevoljani, known as Skopia in Greek.

[Dove]

Sho ubao Grchko ime - Sfet as

[Liberator of Makedonija]

Welcome to Northern FYROM, Europe's new fascist state.

[MHRMI]

Macedonians in Greece Condemn the Prespa Agreement

Macedonians in Greece Condemn the Prespa Agreement

"We have been fighting for our existence as Macedonians our whole lives, as did all of our ancestors. Nobody has the right to change our name, ethnicity, identity and history at the stroke of a pen", said Father Nikodim Tsarknias, well-known Macedonian human rights activist from Sobotsko, in the Voden region of Aegean Macedonia (annexed by Greece after Macedonia's partition in 1913). Father Tsarknias continued, "Macedonians in Aegean Macedonia are 100% against the Prespa Agreement."

Greece has framed the artificial "name dispute" as a diplomatic issue between neighbours, yet they have admitted that their goal in creating the name dispute is to eradicate the existence of Macedonians in Greece. With the imposition of the Prespa Agreement, they have achieved this goal.

There can never be an agreement that is designed to redefine and eradicate an ethnic group. The Prespa Agreement cannot be viewed as simply "resolving" the issue of a state-name, as it specifically dictates how an age-old nationality can define itself. See:

Article 7 (2): “These terms (Macedonia and Macedonian) denote not only the area and people of the northern region of the First Party (Greece), but also their attributes, as well as the Hellenic civilization, history, culture, and heritage of that region from antiquity to present day”.

The Macedonians of Greece officially do not exist as per the implementation of the Prespa Agreement. The newly-found claims by non-Macedonians in Greece to a "regional Macedonian identity" cannot supersede the ethnicity, identity and history of an entire ethnic group - Macedonians. The cultural misappropriation of the Macedonian name by Greece (and Bulgaria for that matter) cannot be rewarded by the Western-imposed Prespa Agreement. It is ironic that the Macedonian name - denied by Greece for so long - is now being claimed by them(beginning in 1988), and used in their attempts to deny the existence of the Macedonian ethnicity.

Further, this illegal agreement cannot be viewed as solving a diplomatic row, as basic human rights such as self-determination and self-identification are enshrined in international law, the UN charter, and all international human rights conventions. UN Independent Expert Gay McDougall declared in 2009:

"Greece should withdraw from the dispute over whether there is a Macedonian minority on its territory and focus on protecting the rights to self-identification, freedom of expression and freedom of association of this community"

Moreover, the European Court of Human Rights convicted Greece, repeatedly, for failing to register the Home of Macedonian Culture and for specifically violating Article 11 of the Framework Convention for the Protection of Human Rights.

Finally, in addition to the blatantly racist anti-Macedonian statements frequently made by Greek politicians, they have now been emboldened by the Prespa Agreement and now point to its existence as justification for the denial of Macedonians' right to exist. Greek PM Tsipras said:

"We will not call them Macedonians, but Slavo-Macedonians. The agreement does not recognize a Macedonian nation."

Macedonian Human Rights Movement International, SNS Makedonium, Father Nikodim Tsarknias, the Macedonians in Greece, throughout the Balkans and the world demand support for our basic human rights and our right to be who we are and who we have always been - Macedonians. No other ethnic group should, or would be subject to the blatant eradication of its ethnic identity. Prevent the application of the illegal Prespa Agreement now.

###

Macedonian Human Rights Movement International (MHRMI) has been active on human and national rights issues for Macedonians and other oppressed peoples since 1986. For more information: 1-416-850-7125, [email protected], www.mhrmi.org, www.twitter.com/mhrmi, www.facebook.com/mhrmi, www.mhrmi.org/OurNameIsMacedonia

[Tomche Makedonche]

Who's allowed to sell 'Macedonian wine'?

https://www.dw.com/en/whos-allowed-to-sell-macedonian-wine/a-48040910

Who's allowed to sell 'Macedonian wine'?

The Prespa agreement has put an end to the decades-old name dispute between Greece and North Macedonia, but it hasn't settled every related question. For example: Who has the right to sell "Macedonian wine" now?

Crucial questions in the Prespa agreement, which only came into force a few weeks ago, have still not been clarified sufficiently, if at all. Regarding the use of commodity brands and brand names, the agreement only stipulates that both sides should try, in the context of an open and "honest dialogue," to reach a mutual agreement. A group of international experts is supposed to help with this, and to deliver results within the next three years.

However, this means fresh tensions are inevitable. There was a foretaste of this at the international wine trade fair Prowein in Düsseldorf, which took place from March 17-19. The association Wines of Macedonia (WoM) represents North Macedonian winemakers, and its participation had Greek exhibitors up in arms. In the run-up to the trade fair, they complained to Prowein and demanded that WoM abide by the Prespa agreement and its terms.

The Question of Patents

"What we want is for the wines from North Macedonia to be called just that, and for our wines to be called Macedonian wines, which is how they've been patented at the EU level for 20 years now," says Stelios Boutaris. He's one of the best-known winemakers in Greece, the son of Yannis Boutaris, founder of Boutaris Wines and mayor of Thessaloniki. "Macedonian wine" is indeed an EU-registered product with so-called "Protected Geographical Indication," like Thuringian bratwurst. This means that only wines from the region of Macedonia in Greece, and made from very specific varieties of grape, are allowed to bear this name.

WoM, however, interprets things differently. "We have been selling wines from Macedonia for decades," it says, "and we hope we will still be able to do this in 10 or 20 years' time.” A representative of WoM, who asked to remain anonymous, said that all parties should be allowed to use the label "Wines of Macedonia,” i.e. the Greeks, the North Macedonians —and even producers in Bulgaria, where part of the ancient kingdom of Macedonia also lay.

In that case, though, how would the consumer be able to distinguish the different products correctly? "Quite simply: The country of origin is always stated on the label. In this case, 'Product of North Macedonia' or ‘Product of Greece.'" A North Macedonian wine producer suggests that they could take the Germans, French and Luxembourgers as an example: "The Moselle river passes through all three countries, so all of them are entitled to sell Moselle wines."

Registered and protected brands

These and other arguments are sure to be presented when the negotiations envisaged by the Prespa agreement take place between the two sides in the near future. However, these certainly won't be easy. In theory, the Greek side holds the better cards. It can refer to the fact that the appellation "Macedonian wines" has already been a registered and protected brand for two decades. Greek winemakers are also saying that Greece could threaten to block North Macedonia's bid to join the European Union if it doesn't concede.

The small Balkan country won't give up that easily, though. It may not have a comparable legal argument, but it could use purely economic reasoning. In recent decades, North Macedonia has fought for and secured a strong market policy position. Even Greek vintners admit that "if you ask Germans about 'wine from Macedonia,' most will point to what is now North Macedonia, not Greece." They say that this is the result of an export-oriented strategy, which the Greeks did not pursue with equal vigor.

However, despite their divergent positions and the expectation of tensions, wine producers from both Greece and North Macedonia remain confident. Speaking to DW, they concluded that a solution had to be found, because it would be to the advantage of both sides.

[Risto the Great]

Could the Prespa Agreement fall apart.

https://www.ecfr.eu/article/commentary_after_prespa_could_the_north_macedonia_name_agreement_fall_apart

I have been amusing myself in the comments.

[Gocka]

https://www.ecfr.eu/article/commenta...ent_fall_apart


I have been amusing myself in the comments.

LOL I talked about this in the name thread on the name change.

The absurdity of it all was bound to show its ugly head at some point, who would have thought it would be so soon.

I look at the agreement like a bad relationship. In the beginning both parties are willing to grin and bear it. Both parties let a lot of things go and pretend that everything is great. Until one morning they wake up and realize that they fucking hate each other.

The delicate dance both sides are playing is comical and can't last forever, because one things remains true:

You can't change an entire nation's identity and erase their entire history with a piece of paper and a couple signatures. Maybe after a couple generations of brainwashing, but this thing will fall apart long before that is achieved.

[Spirit]

https://www.ecfr.eu/article/commenta...ent_fall_apart


I have been amusing myself in the comments.

So have I Risto, I have a sneaky suspicion that you might be the one who is doing the comments under the name Chris Mil, it does seem like your posting style. Whoever it is has that Greek troll going around in circles with his intelligent thoughtful comments. Correct me if I am wrong

[Risto the Great]

I have to admit, I felt the need to vent somewhere. Yes, it's me. Phoenix and I were doing this stuff back when the internet was getting invented. I should be tired of it, but there you go. It isn't hard to trip them up.

[Statitsa]

https://www.ecfr.eu/article/commenta...ent_fall_apart


I have been amusing myself in the comments.

Priceless!

[Karposh]

"We have decided to rename the Philip II Stadium as the Toshe Proeski National Arena to honour a personality who left a deep mark on Macedonian and regional history," Prime Minister Zoran Zaev was quoted as saying.

First there was the very gay-sounding "Friendship" Highway (renamed from Alexander the Great Highway) and now this. What's next?...The Esma Redgepova Airport in Ohrid? After all, St.Paul wrote in Greek to the churches in Macedonia and not Slavic so, in the spirit of the agreement, this could be seen as contentious as well.

https://www.france24.com/en/20190409-north-macedonia-names-stadium-honour-greek-deal

[Niko777]

That sign is for the village of Gorno Nevoljani, known as Skopia in Greek.

No, it's not. Evzoni is the border crossing near Gevgeli, no where near Nevoljani.

[Carlin]

Sho ubao Grchko ime - Sfet as

Interestingly, Sfetas speaks Serbian.

[Risto the Great]

'Northies' Has Crept Into The Macedonian Debate. Will It Ever Go Away?

'Northies' Has Crept Into The Macedonian Debate. Will It Ever Go Away?

https://www.rferl.org/a/northies-has-crept-into-the-macedonian-debate-will-it-ever-go-away-/30020114.html

Even before Macedonians' decades-old spat with neighboring Greece was finally resolved earlier this year, the new name-calling had begun.

Referendum "boycotters," social-media trolls, and some other critics were already belittling as "Northies" (северџан/severchan) their fellow Macedonians who took part in the process to rename their former Yugoslav republic North Macedonia and ease Greek concerns that territorial claims on their region called Macedonia were just a matter of time.

And while the "Northie" name-calling appears to have abated since the implementation of the so-called Prespa Agreement that guided the name change to North Macedonia, its use continues, especially hashtagged on social media but also occasionally in more traditional media.

And the practice is a matter of concern to some.

Mirjana Najcevska calls it a textbook case of "hate speech."

"By using this term, a certain group of people is seeking to dehumanize or, in this case, 'de-identify,'" Najcevska, who specializes in rights and discrimination issues for the Institute for Sociological, Political, and Juridical Research, told RFE/RL's Balkan Service.

"Some people seek to label others in a way that not only degrades and humiliates but also takes away certain characteristics -- either to limit the rights of those people in a given situation or to create a hostile atmosphere and in future justify violent behavior toward that group of people."

Others counter that even if the intention is to insult, the term "Northies" is so matter-of-fact that it doesn't pack the kind of punch that is likely to truly divide Macedonian society.

"It's not hate speech," Angel Mojsovski, a researcher with the Skopje-based European Policy Institute, a think tank, told RFE/RL. "Maybe it's meant to be an insult from those who are saying [it], but it doesn't mean anything. What does 'severchan' mean? Nothing. 'People who are living in North Macedonia.'"

He noted that the "Northie" label was initially being applied by detractors to anyone who was participating in the referendum, including liberals who would go on to back Prespa or nationalists who turned out to oppose the name change, stripping it of much real meaning.

Mojsovski suggested that such insults could melt away with political realignments in Macedonia, leaving a short-sighted term like "Northie" behind.

But such a warning is especially pertinent in the Balkans, where the breakup of Yugoslavia was accompanied by a decade of bitter conflict fueled by nationalism, ethnic rivalries, and strategic ambitions.

NATO, EU Ambitions

Many of those ambitions have since been replaced with hopes of joining NATO and the European Union, as fellow former Yugoslav republics Slovenia and Croatia have done.

Skopje has already signed an accession protocol with NATO that awaits ratification in allied capitals.

But as the European Union drags its feet on expansion and with eager Macedonians already frustrated by a lack of economic opportunities, critics warn that healing the divisions over the Prespa process might be made more difficult.

Prime Minister Zoran Zaev's center-left government negotiated the Prespa Agreement in part on the basis of a referendum in September that equated a solution to the name dispute with EU and NATO membership.

"Are you in favor of European Union and NATO membership by accepting the agreement between the Republic of Macedonia and the Republic of Greece?" the referendum asked voters in the mountainous country of some 2.1 million people.

Macedonians overwhelmingly approved it, albeit with only about one in three eligible voters casting ballots. Risto says WTF

EU Enlargement Commissioner Johannes Hahn called the endorsement "very significant." Risto again says WTF

Many Macedonians saw those and other indications as an assurance that resolution of the name squabble would immediately launch the country into accession talks, a yearslong goal of Skopje's foreign policy.

But North Macedonia was recently shunted along with Albania into EU limbo despite a European Commission recommendation for the start of those negotiations, reportedly in part because of objections by EU members France and the Netherlands.

There are concerns that the seeming contradictory actions by the EU might provide political ammunition against the "Northies."

One "boycotter" last week posted a video of Zaev reading the referendum question from last summer, punctuating the message with a #Northie tag.

So the bout of "Northie" name-calling could well continue, and it could leave a bitter taste in a lot of Macedonians' mouths, particularly if the European Union continues to keep them at arm's length.

But it is unlikely to rile Macedonians too much, or to create any intractable problems in their newly renamed country.

"We mind our own business. We're here eating and drinking and going on with our lives," said Mojsovski. "Most of the divisions that I see,... if you just follow social media, you'll think that all hell is breaking loose. But if you go out among real people, you don't get that feeling, especially in Skopje. It's not like we're killing each other."

Dear Mirjana, it is idiots like you who have de-identified yourselves. I can think of worse words that accurately describe your nation of hillbillies and they still wouldn't qualify as hate speech.

[Bill77]

"Mirjana Najcevska calls it a textbook case of "hate speech."

Snow flakes in Macedonia now?

Fucken Northies...... smh