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Old 01-05-2017, 08:34 AM   #251
Om3n
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What do you suppose an enemy to be? A quick Google search returns:" a person who is actively opposed or hostile to someone or something".

"I know ... the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews, and they are not, but are a synagogue of Satan."
"You are of your father, the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father."
- Lord Jesus Christ

"[The Jews] killed both the Lord Jesus and the prophets, and drove us out, and displease God and oppose all mankind... But wrath has come upon them at last!"
- Apostle Paul

1st century AD.
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Old 01-05-2017, 04:42 PM   #252
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Originally Posted by Om3n View Post
What do you suppose an enemy to be? A quick Google search returns:" a person who is actively opposed or hostile to someone or something".

"I know ... the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews, and they are not, but are a synagogue of Satan."
"You are of your father, the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father."
- Lord Jesus Christ

"[The Jews] killed both the Lord Jesus and the prophets, and drove us out, and displease God and oppose all mankind... But wrath has come upon them at last!"
- Apostle Paul

1st century AD.
Wow!
I'm not even sure how to react on this,or if it deserves any reaction altogether...
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Old 01-05-2017, 07:20 PM   #253
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Originally Posted by Om3n View Post
Hitler's "imaginary" enemies; the principal architects of the Bolshevik Revolution.

George Soros is Jewish.

But back to the original question, there is considerable evidence that George Soros funds and foments color revolutions, to what extent this is true in Macedonia, however, is up for debate.
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Old 01-05-2017, 09:39 PM   #254
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Not sure how we managed to turn this thread into a Jew-bashing exercise (Omen) but, putting that aside, comparing Hitlers's Germany to Grujo's Macedonia is a bit rich I think.

The Jews of 1930's Germany (and the rest of Europe), besides concerning themselves with what is most important to them - their families, community, personal assets and accumulated wealth (not necessarily in that order), they didn't really concern themselves too much with the affairs of the host countries in which they resided. It was the same in Ottoman Macedonia. Whereas the Christian Macedonian saw tyranny and abuse and rose up to overthrow it, the Jew saw opportunity and stability.

I'm no Jew-hater, but it's quite obvious that this was the main reason why Germans were pissed off with the Jews and many around Europe were too. The fact that Germans were doing it tough post WWI, made worse by the Great Depression of the 1930's, they resented the fact that they were struggling to put food on the table in their own country while the Jews were doing just fine thank you very much. We all know what happened next. Hitler played on this resentment and went further by painting the Jews as leeches and bloodsuckers to the general approval of German society.

I remember speaking to my Grandfather about the Jews of Bitola and what he thought of them before they were deported during the war. He actually respected them a lot and described them as "Domakini Lugje". But, then again, there was a running inside joke in my family about my Grandfather while he was still alive that he was a bit of a Jew himself so I guess that explains it.

However, apart from having as their primary concern their economic wellbeing and security, the Jews of Europe, posed no threat to any country in Europe. The situation in Macedonia is very different.

If 2001 never happened, I too would've been inclined to say that Grujo is on a fear mongering campaign and that we have nothing to fear from the Albanians who are hard working people and just going about their lives peacefully and not hurting anyone. But 2001 did happen and the trust has been permanently broken. That is the reality whether people like it or not. To be perfectly honest, I have not heard or read Grujo's anti-Albanian speech which has caused the Albanian parties in Macedonia to rally against him. But I don't think I need to. I, like many Macedonians, share his sentiments and there's no need to tip-toe around the subject so as not to offend them. It was high time someone called it for what it was and Grujo did that. Good on him I say.

Everyone knows about the very Albanian cultural institution of the honour code - Besa. If an Albanian is insulted or disrespected then Albanian social convention allows him to murder that person. If not today then tomorrow. And if not by the insulted party then by his brother, son or next of kin. Yes, the Albanians are all about honour and respect. That is, they like to be honoured and respected but give none in return. Where was the honour in 2001, when they picked up arms against the country that had given them everything short of giving them the reins to rule that country?

Make no mistake, the Albanians of Macedonia are holding the host country to ransom - "Give us this and give us that or suffer the consequences". Let's not forget, we don't have another Macedonia! The Albanians already have two Albanias and are pushing for a third. Are we really that naïve to think that Albanian demands will end with the 2001 deal. No, it will never be enough for them until they get what they really want. The Albanian will tell you "So what", we have always been on those lands and, if we weren't, then it is our right as Illyrian descendants to claim those lands, even if it means pushing others out to get it.

Just a reminder, the very large and purely Albanian village perched on top of Sharplanina, Shipkovica, was a 100% Christian Macedonian village around 200 years ago. As were many of the other surrounding villages. Aracinovo was a 100% Christian Macedonian village as recently as 1905 and now it is almost exclusively all Albanian. When and where is this going to end?

So no, they haven't always lived in Macedonia and no, they are not Illyrians and they need to be reminded of that.

And, to answer the question about whether the whole Soros Foundation and other non-governmental organisations (NGOs) are really meddling in Macedonia's affairs or not, I am inclined to say they could well be real and not imagined or hyped up. Macedonia has many enemies, both overt (i.e. Albanians) and covert (Washington & Brussels). I normally don't buy into paranoid conspiracy theories and simply scoff at the idea but after what I have learnt recently about the whole Aracinovo scandal of 2001, I am inclined to say that, yes, there are shadowy forces out there that want to see Macedonia and the Macedonian people disappear off the world map.

It turns out that what Macedonians suspected, despite NATO and EU denials, was true the whole time regarding the real reasons for the evacuation of the Albanian terrorists from Aracinovo back in 2001. Just when the terrorists were about to get what's coming to them, the rug was pulled out from under the Macedonians' feet by NATO and the EU and the bastards got away Scott-free with their weapons in tow, to fight another day. At the time everyone suspected that there were US operatives embedded (to use an American term) with the terrorists which is why there was such a flurry of diplomatic activity to prevent the Macedonian army from squeezing the noose and putting an end to the insurgency right then and there. The Macedonians long suspected that the Yanks were aiding the terrorists but could do nothing about it. Who can forget the invasion of Macedonian airspace with the dropping of containers from Chinook helicopters to Albanians on Sharplanina. The US, of course, denied this at first, but when presented with the evidence, they said it was humanitarian aide and not weapons.

From Wikipedia:

From the start of the operation in Aračinovo, NATO Secretary-General Lord George Robertson described the Macedonian assault
on NLA held Aračinovo as "madness" and "complete folly". In a strongly-worded statement, Lord Robertson urged the government
to cease hostilities as Macedonia, he warned, was "on the brink of bloody civil war"
(i.e. "Plasham Detsa", my note)

In his memoirs, on page 111, Petrovski (Macedonian General, my note) then states that: "Brigadier general Zvonko Stojanovski the commander of the Army Anti-air Defence informed me that our radars caught 6 fighter planes with course from Italy, through Albania towards Macedonia. I told him to follow their course and to dislocate the helicopters to the reserve airfield in Lozovo. I then thought to myself – this is it! NATO is ready to use force on us if we continue with the operation".

Petrovski's description of these circumstances was confirmed by Glenn Nye, a state department official in the U.S. Embassy in Macedonia. During the 2002 congressional elections in the USA, Nye revealed that while assigned to Macedonia and Kosovo, in 2001 he organised the rescue of twenty-six American citizens who were trapped behind insurgent lines. For this action, Nye received the State Department's "Superior Honor Award".

According to researchers Mark Curtis and Scott Taylor, the foreigners who were evacuated from Aračinovo by NATO forces were advisors from the American military company MPRI.


I'll just conclude by saying that if Albanians want to live in Macedonia as loyal Macedonian citizens and accept the country as the natural fatherland of the Macedonian people as well as home to all other minorities with her territory, including the Albanians, then I believe some workable co-existence based on mutual trust and respect can be made to work. Otherwise, I don't see the current situation working for too long. I don't think any Macedonian worth his salt wants to see Macedonia's destiny slowly but surely slip away from Macedonians' control, the way it currently is, and fall into the hands of those who wish to dismember it.
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Old 01-06-2017, 01:09 AM   #255
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Wow!
I'm not even sure how to react on this,or if it deserves any reaction altogether...
You can't argue with Scripture.
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Old 01-06-2017, 03:07 AM   #256
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You can't argue with Scripture.
That's an entirely different debate altogether.
Jews during Hitler's time was just an example I took on how those that want to get/keep in power use distractions away from real issues as a mean to gain popular support,you seem to have missed my point.

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... comparing Hitlers's Germany to Grujo's Macedonia is a bit rich I think.
I never made that comparison (to be fair, a high-ranked DPMNE member did threaten with a "Night of the Long Knives" the day after the elections).I simply gave examples of how politicians use distractions when get cornered or try to gain some extra vote, which is exactly what Grujo's doing though government-controlled media bashing out Soros, NGO's, foreign services, spies, outside forces that want to destabilize Macedonia and their internal collaborators etc etc.Or in other words - everyone else EXCEPT DPMNE are responsible for Macedonia's problems.
Grujo is Macedonia's Don Quijote and Soros is his windmill, it's a 21st century witch hunt.
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Old 01-09-2017, 06:46 AM   #257
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Macedonia's "Harangue" Against NGOs Suffers Selective Memory

In his verbal attacks on civil society groups in Macedonia, the leader of the ruling VMRO DPMNE party, Nikola Gruevski, has failed to mention that many of his closest associates and supporters were once affiliated to or senior members of the same NGOs, some media say.

Sinisa Jakov Marusic
BIRN
Skopje


VMRO DPMNE leader Nikola Gruevski's latest Нew Year's "mega interview" for the news portal Republika in which he repeatedly accused the Foundation Open Society - Macedonia, FOOM, of plotting to topple his government in the name of "foreign interests", naming US Billionaire George Soros as the alleged mastermind behind this plot, has heated Macedonian media and social networks.

Citing data from FOOM, Deutsche Welle has reminded its readers that Gruevski's attacks on FOOM ignoring the fact that many of his most prominent associates and supporters were affiliated to this NGO in the past.

Close ally Macedonian President Gjorge Ivanov, VMRO DPMNE's presidential candidate in two elections, was on the NGO’s executive board from May 2002 to October 2004.

Ilija Dimovski, an MP and coordinator of the ruling party’s parliamentary group, was a member of the NGO’s subcommittee for awarding scholarships for studies abroad, DW reminds.

Former Foreign Minister Antonio Milososki and Toni Mihajlovski, a prominent actor and outspoken member of the pro-government movement GDOM, both used its scholarships.

Meanwhile, Macedonia's ambassador to London, Jovan Donev, another firm supporter of Gruevski's government, was president of FOOM's management board from 1996 to 2002.
He was later the executive director of the Skopje-based Evrobalkan institute of which FOOM was a founder.

Ratko Dimitrovski, Mayor of Kocani municipality and a former VMRO DPMNE MP, was the recipient of the single greatest grant that the NGO ever awarded since its formation.

In the mid-1990s, in the early years of Macedonian pluralism, FOOM gave over a million US dollars for printing equipment for Dimitrovski's printing house "Europe 92", which helped break the state-owned NIP Nova Makedonija's monopoly over printed media.
Gruevski's latest attacks on civil sector groups allegedly or actually linked to US billionaire George Soros came in a New Year interview for the Republika news site, in which he accused the opposition and the NGOs of working against Macedonia's interests.

In the interview, entitled "Civil Sector Must Not Remain in the Hands of Soros," Gruevski, who is hoping to form a new government after December's close election result, accused Soros of financing "a modern army" of corrupt NGOs in Macedonia that had plotted to topple him.

"That is the reality and unfortunately that is how Soros works. Then they do what they want. They squash you and slam you. They will make you a criminal, a crook and a traitor, an idiot, incompetent and a monster - whatever they want," he said.

During a speech made shortly after the December 11 election, he accused foreign ambassadors, NGOs and the opposition of plotting to steal his election victory and warned that he intended to "de-Soros-ise" the country, remarks that drew expressions of concern from Brussels.

Shortly after, in December, financial inspectors were sent to investigate some 20 NGOs in Macedonia, including FOOM and its affiliates.

In May 2016, afteer the recently formed Special Prosecution, SJO, started to investigate Gruevski and other party members, Gruevski accused critics within the NGO sector of performing “sect-like” rituals that involved group chanting and stamping on his party logo.

"The years-long tendency of Gruevski and the VMRO DPMNE leadership to create imaginary enemies and threaten their critics with purges is evident," FOOM's executive director Fani Karanfilova told Deutsche Welle last Wednesday.

She added that the recent verbal attacks - and financial inspections - showed that the "harangues" against NGOs were gaining momentum.

Macedonian news portal Meta.mk has meanwhile calculated that in the last so-called mega-interview, only in the first two out of four published daily sequels, Gruevski mentions Soros's name, staggering 53 times. This, Meta.mk says, plastically portrays the "enormous attention" that Gruevski is paying to "dueling with the US billionaire".

Gruevski's remarks heated twitter as well.

"Either he [Gruevski] will shut down the civil sector or the civil sector will close [incarcerate] him. The battle against Gruevski enters its final phase!" wrote seasoned journalist and columnist Branko Trickovski on twitter.

"Gruevski is allergic to different opinions and there is no anti-allergens for that", tweeted seasoned journalist Borjan Jovanovski.

Gruevski, whose party has held power since 2006, upped its attacks on NGOs and foreign ambassadors after the December 11 elections, when it became apparent that he would have a hard time convincing his long standing ethnic Albanian partner in government, the Democratic Union for Integration, DUI, to renew the coalition.

Both VMRO DPMNE and the opposition say they have launched unofficial talks with Albanian parties on forming a new government.
- See more at:

http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/arti....dWFBAa9r.dpuf
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Old 01-12-2017, 02:12 AM   #258
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Maybe Nikola is right

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...n-soros-groups
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Old 01-18-2017, 09:26 AM   #259
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Whether the Soros 'threat' is as concerning as it's being made out to be...Gruevski will capitalize on it.

Quote:
New 'Stop Soros' Movement Unveiled in Macedonia

Supporters of a new movement in Macedonia, SOS, have vowed to start 'de-Soros-ising' Macedonia, a process that the main ruling VMRO DPMNE party has increasingly underlined as a priority.
Sinisa Jakov Marusic

A new movement dedicated to countering the influence of billionaire US philanthropist George Soros has been formed in Macedonia, shortly after the leader of the main ruling VMRO DPMNE party, Nikola Gruevski, stepped up attacks against NGOs financed from aboard.

The Stop Operation Soros movement, SOS, was presented on Wednesday in Skopje. Its founders are the head of the state-run news agency MIA, the editor-in-chief of the pro-government Republika news portal, Nenad Mircevski, and Nikola Srbov, a columnist for another pro-government news portal, Kurir.

The founders called on all "free minded citizens" to join SOS in the "fight against one-mindedness in the civil sector, which is devised and led by George Soros".

They say their first activities will focus on exposing the subversive activities of Macedonian NGOs financed by the billionaire in Macedonia.
NGOs backed by the Soros Foundation have long been a target of nationalist governments in Russia, Hungary, Macedonia and elsewhere, where authorities are deeply suspicious of their politically and socially liberal agenda and focus on human rights.

A former opposition MP, Professor Gjorge Spasov warned of the seriousness of the recent attacks on NGOs in Macedonia, noting that, along with the opposition Social Democrats, SDSM, "the Soros Foundation in Macedonia, judging by the [ruling] party's press releases, are the 'undertakers' of the democracy built by Gruevski, puppets, mercenary revolutionaries, a disgrace and a disaster for Macedonia.

"Judging by this vocabulary and its intensity, Gruevski is launching a purge which should end in the banning of the Open Society Foundation - Macedonia, and if possible, of the Social Democrats, too," Spasov wrote on Facebook.

Last last year, immediately after the December 11 early general elections, which Gruevski's party narrowly won, he issued a direct threat to NGOs that receive funds from abroad, saying his party would "fight for the de-Soros-isation of the country".

Since then, the party's press releases have announced that work on "de-Soros-isation" has already begun, also naming various activists in the NGO sector as "foreign mercenaries" who work against the national interest.

Financial inspectors have also been sent to the offices of various NGOs.
Russia more or less outlawed Soros-affiliated organisations in 2015. This January, authorities in Hungary said they would use “all the tools at its disposal” to “sweep out” NGOs funded by the Hungarian-born financier, which “serve global capitalists and back political correctness over national governments.” Hungarian Leader Viktor Orban last year accused Soros of destabilizing Europe by encouraging mass immigration to Europe from Middle Eastern war zones.

Born in Hungary in 1930, Soros moved to England in 1947 and to the US in 1956. An active philanthropist and supporter of liberal causes, his Open Society Foundations operate in about 60 countries.

- See more at: http://www.balkaninsight.com/en/arti....EfzB0UBK.dpuf
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Old 01-18-2017, 10:22 AM   #260
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I kind of agree with the sentiment here. Why on earth would any country want or even allow, foreign entities to set up organizations that meddle in the internal politics of that nation.

Here is a brief definition of the actions an NGO undertakes.

"There are numerous classifications of NGOs. The typology the World Bank uses divides them into Operational and Advocacy.[13]

Generally, NGO's act as implementers, catalysts and partners. Firstly, NGO's act as implementers in that they mobilize resources in order to provide goods and services to people who are suffering due to a man-made disaster or a natural disaster. Secondly, NGO's act as catalysts in that they drive change. They have the ability to 'inspire, facilitate or contribute to improved thinking and action to promote change'. Lastly, NGO's often act as partners alongside other organizations in order to tackle problems and address human needs more effectively.[14]

NGOs vary in their methods. Some act primarily as lobbyists, while others primarily conduct programs and activities. For instance, an NGO such as Oxfam, concerned with poverty alleviation, might provide needy people with the equipment and skills to find food and clean drinking water, whereas an NGO like the FFDA helps through investigation and documentation of human rights[citation needed] violations and provides legal assistance to victims of human rights abuses. Others, such as Afghanistan Information Management Services, provide specialized technical products and services to support development activities implemented on the ground by other organizations.'


They were originally used to help war torn countries and poor African nations with basic life saving assistance like food water and shelter. They quickly morphed into quasi state funded social agitators.

All you have to do is ask one question, where does the money come from to fund all these NGO's. On a personal level have you ever donated money to an organization to promote certain social values in some random country? Or have you ever given money to a group to meddle in the politics of some random nation? The vast majority of people dont even contribute to the political campaigns within their own countries let alone foreign ones. So again I ask who the """ is wasting their hard earn money to pursue random social and political changes in some random obscure country in the Balkans? Only someone who has an agenda to fulfill.

That brings me back to my first point, why on earth would you want a foreign actor, whether they are state funded or privately, meddling in the internal matters of your country. As if Macedonia or any other country doesn't have enough internal actors and agendas, all we need are more foreign ones.

Am I missing something here, am I looking at this too simplistically, because I find it hard to understand how NGO's are allowed to operate pretty much anywhere, at least when they undertake some kind of political advocacy.
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