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Old 07-01-2019, 08:43 PM   #11
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That video never panned around to fully show how many people were actually there. I wonder how many actual Macedonians were there. Very "Balkan" in character.
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Old 07-01-2019, 08:44 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by vicsinad View Post
Gocka,

Counter protest was shown here, at the 1 minute mark:

https://www.rferl.org/a/skopje-holds.../30027539.html
Where were you majmuni to protest IMPORTANT things!

Looks just as small as the pride march.
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Old 07-01-2019, 10:33 PM   #13
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A few hundred pederi marching has absolutely no significance in relation to what happened or what is happening. Its not like there are no gay people in Macedonia.
I am sure they exist in Macedonia, I just consider Macedonia's cultural identity more important than their right to impose their unconventional ways on a largely Orthodox Christian country that has centuries of traditional values in its history and is at a crossroads at the moment. Their timing couldn't be more horrible.
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I think we want to directly associate this to the name change but I don't think that is accurate. Those 400 gay people didn't change Macedonia's name.
It's all relative. Those people may not have changed Macedonia's name but they supported those that did and are so thankful to the current regime that they've already adopted the northie moniker. That being the case, they are just as treacherous as the rest of the traitors.
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Old 07-02-2019, 02:43 AM   #14
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I am sure they exist in Macedonia, I just consider Macedonia's cultural identity more important than their right to impose their unconventional ways on a largely Orthodox Christian country that has centuries of traditional values in its history and is at a crossroads at the moment. Their timing couldn't be more horrible.
Agreed on the bad timing.

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It's all relative. Those people may not have changed Macedonia's name but they supported those that did and are so thankful to the current regime that they've already adopted the northie moniker. That being the case, they are just as treacherous as the rest of the traitors.
I consider them to be a class of people that were abandoned by Macedonian society which failed them completely. There are quite a few very patriotic LGBT Macedonians in Melbourne but I understand the LGBT community in the Republic was continuously let-down by politicians. Honestly once again the root of this issue for me is in the poor choices of successive governments (particulary DPNE) that lead to these people and others like them feeling isolated and disconnected from the rest of the nation. Are they traitors? Yes. Are they on the same level as the politicians who sold us out? No.
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Old 07-02-2019, 03:19 AM   #15
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Agreed on the bad timing.
And not on the rest?
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I consider them to be a class of people that were abandoned by Macedonian society which failed them completely.
I have ancestors who fought, bled and died for a Macedonia free to practice its own culture as far back as the 19th and 20th centuries. I have relatives in the 21st century who live in villages with conditions almost on par with some African countries and have had their inherited legacy dishonoured by traitors. And you want Macedonian society to give preference to people who exhibit a sexual predisposition to the same gender over their own dire concerns? Please. Let them live as they wish, however much at odds it is with Macedonian culture, but they are not and should not be the priority in tormented Macedonia.
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There are quite a few very patriotic LGBT Macedonians in Melbourne but I understand the LGBT community in the Republic was continuously let-down by politicians.
Quite a few? Clearly, you're exaggerating. And if there are such rare people it is only because they were brought up by patriotic families in Australia.
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Are they traitors? Yes. Are they on the same level as the politicians who sold us out? No.
Why not? What makes them any different to the other traitors? Because they were marginalised by a previous government? They weren't the only group of people who felt that way. And if that is all it took for them to embrace the new regime and all of the treachery it entails, then they are absolutely on the same level as the other traitors.
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Old 07-02-2019, 04:22 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
And not on the rest? I have ancestors who fought, bled and died for a Macedonia free to practice its own culture as far back as the 19th and 20th centuries. I have relatives in the 21st century who live in villages with conditions almost on par with some African countries and have had their inherited legacy dishonoured by traitors. And you want Macedonian society to give preference to people who exhibit a sexual predisposition to the same gender over their own dire concerns? Please. Let them live as they wish, however much at odds it is with Macedonian culture, but they are not and should not be the priority in tormented Macedonia.
I too have ancestors who fought, bled and died for Macedonia. I also have family still living who fought for our country. I fail to see the relevance?

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Quite a few? Clearly, you're exaggerating. And if there are such rare people it is only because they were brought up by patriotic families in Australia.
No? Why would I exaggerate that? Does the idea of LGBT Macedonians actually caring about their country come as a shock to you? The Macedonian community in Melbourne is entering its 4th generation, there are plenty of Macedonians here who love their country that would not even be accepted in it. I personally know some LGBT Macedonians who proudly declare themselves to be just that, Macedonian, and are against what is happening over there.

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Why not? What makes them any different to the other traitors? Because they were marginalised by a previous government? They weren't the only group of people who felt that way. And if that is all it took for them to embrace the new regime and all of the treachery it entails, then they are absolutely on the same level as the other traitors.
I just can't view them on that level, the situation isn't as simple as that. I saw this all happening years ago, it could have been prevented back then.
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Old 07-03-2019, 05:51 AM   #17
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I too have ancestors who fought, bled and died for Macedonia. I also have family still living who fought for our country. I fail to see the relevance?
That you would assume I am interested engaging in a petty game of one-upmanship suggests you have indeed failed to see the relevance. The essence of my earlier post relates to priorities. Honouring the memory of our ancestors. Maintaining our culture. Improving the living conditions of our people. These are real issues and exponentially more important than the right of this supposedly abandoned class of people to express their views on sexuality in the public sphere at a time when Macedonia is hurting so much. This is not what our forefathers envisioned for our nation and homeland. I can accept that the existence of such people in Macedonian society is a reality today, but their desire to parade about their sexual preferences doesn't even register in terms of importance when compared to the many problems that face Macedonia right now.
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Why would I exaggerate that?
To strengthen a weak point.
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I personally know some LGBT Macedonians who proudly declare themselves to be just that, Macedonian, and are against what is happening over there.
So "quite a few" is now "some", fine. As for them being against it, shouldn't they be happier now that they can freely chassť themselves in colourful street marches in Skopje? How could they not be for North Macedonia?
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I just can't view them on that level, the situation isn't as simple as that. I saw this all happening years ago, it could have been prevented back then.
It actually is as simple as that. Previous governments didn't pander to them and this one does. Now they embrace northism. But for argument's sake, let's say I am wrong. How could it have been prevented? What could the government have done? How do you see that lifestyle being compatible with Macedonian culture and mainstream Macedonian society?
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Old 07-03-2019, 06:44 AM   #18
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So "quite a few" is now "some", fine. As for them being against it, shouldn't they be happier now that they can freely chassť themselves in colourful street marches in Skopje? How could they not be for North Macedonia?
You make the mistake of assuming their sexuality is front and centre and supercedes their patriotism. I saw on Facebook a notable from the LGBT community in the RoM who criticised the parades and attacked the government; he was against the name-change. Furthermore I said there were quite a few patriotic LGBT Macedonians in Melbourne but that I personally only knew some of them.

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Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
It actually is as simple as that. Previous governments didn't pander to them and this one does. Now they embrace northism. But for argument's sake, let's say I am wrong. How could it have been prevented? What could the government have done? How do you see that lifestyle being compatible with Macedonian culture and mainstream Macedonian society?
Tolerance. They were continuously demonised by government and media alike, had they just been left alone the situation may be different now. I would say indifference would have been the best path as it avoided by antagonising conservatives and the community alike.
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Old 07-03-2019, 02:53 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
I am sure they exist in Macedonia, I just consider Macedonia's cultural identity more important than their right to impose their unconventional ways on a largely Orthodox Christian country that has centuries of traditional values in its history and is at a crossroads at the moment. Their timing couldn't be more horrible.

It's all relative. Those people may not have changed Macedonia's name but they supported those that did and are so thankful to the current regime that they've already adopted the northie moniker. That being the case, they are just as treacherous as the rest of the traitors.
Ill timed sure. Then again I don't know if it would ever have been perceived as a good time. Gays in Macedonia have been repressed for a long time, it was only a matter of time until they emerged from the shadows. For those who support the name change, they are all treacherous in my opinion regardless of other factors I put them all in the same boat. I don't really know any gay Macedonians other than Meto at UMD, so I don't know what their stance is.

What I am confused about is are you mad that they support the name change or that they are gay, or that they are publicly gay?

What do you mean by impose their ways?
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Old 07-04-2019, 02:38 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Liberator of Makedonija View Post
You make the mistake of assuming their sexuality is front and centre and supercedes their patriotism.
Do you believe there is even a single participant of that parade who considers patriotism above their own sexual preference?
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I saw on Facebook a notable from the LGBT community in the RoM who criticised the parades and attacked the government; he was against the name-change.
Who is this brave soul?
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Furthermore I said there were quite a few patriotic LGBT Macedonians in Melbourne but that I personally only knew some of them.
If you don't know them all how can you claim there are "quite a few", the implication being that there are many of them?
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Tolerance. They were continuously demonised by government and media alike, had they just been left alone the situation may be different now. I would say indifference would have been the best path as it avoided by antagonising conservatives and the community alike.
How were they demonised by the government and media?
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