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Old 08-03-2010, 06:14 AM   #1
Daskalot
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Default The Bulgarian ethnographer Vasil Kanchov, who was he?

I am starting this thread so we can accumulate documents in regards to the Bulgarian ethnographer Vasil Kanchov.

He published a book in 1900 called "Macedonia — ethnography and statistics". Albeit Macedonians were denoted as Bulgarians in this book and on the including map.

What is very interesting is that in 1911 he published a book called "Orohydrography of Macedonia" in which he himself refutes the fact that the Bulgarians of Macedonia did not consider themselves Bulgarians but rather Macedonians only.

Title page.

First page.


Here is the important passage on page one translated into English:
Quote:
It is impossible to give precise borders of the area of Macedonia, since this country is not limited with some strict geographic features, nor is it administratively separated by the other countries. Only in the ethnographic sense Macedonia has defined borders, since the Bulgarian tribe is settled in the entire country, and rarely exits its limits. The areas to the north, west and south of Macedonia have predominantly other population. To determine its borders we will follow mainly the main perception of the population and the determination given by the most skilled recent travelers. The local Bulgarians and Kucovlachs who live in the area of Macedonia call themselves Macedonians, and the surrounding nations call them Macedonians. Turks and Albanians from Macedonia do not call themselves Macedonians, but when asked where they are from, they respond: from Macedonia... also Greeks who live in the southern area of Macedonia, do not call themselves Macedonians...
Greeks form Macedonia do not call themselves Macedonians........
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Old 08-03-2010, 07:12 AM   #2
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hehe, nice1 Daskale, i know the begining of the quoted material, but never searched for the book to check it completely.

and the vulgaroi always used short quotes "prooving" their stupid theories.
----------

btw, he is very big enigma for me, couse in his biografy it writes he used to travel a lot in Macedonia, but his descriptions...

like example, in his first publications, the City of Bitola has 1 river, Dragora...

The problem is Bitola had 2 rivers, Dragor and Kurdelec. Kurdelec was covered - destroed by the communist after the ww2, actualy i think it was the 70s.

Someone gives in his work the number of the houses of some city, but fail to notice the city has 2 rivers?

So i guess i have to find and read more of his works, to have better picture about him.
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Old 08-03-2010, 08:02 AM   #3
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Keep up the good work Daskalot!

Is there anything more about Albanians by Vasil Kanchov?

I ask because a friend of mine who know Macedonian translate to me some passages of G. Pulevski. If I am correct Pulevski did not see Albanians and Macedonians (of his time) as two distinct people. He noticed some similarity between two ethnic groups. Is that true?
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Old 08-03-2010, 09:28 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epirot View Post
Keep up the good work Daskalot!

Is there anything more about Albanians by Vasil Kanchov?

I ask because a friend of mine who know Macedonian translate to me some passages of G. Pulevski. If I am correct Pulevski did not see Albanians and Macedonians (of his time) as two distinct people. He noticed some similarity between two ethnic groups. Is that true?
Vasil Kanchov has written approx. 16 pages worth of Information about Albanians (Arnauts as he calls them) in his book Macedonia Ethnography and Statistics. He gives statistics of where the Albanians lived 100 years ago and gives some details regarding the colonisation of many parts of Macedonia by Albanians during the centuries long Ottoman Rule.

He doesn't shy away from history, he mentions the expulsion of Macedonians from the region south of Ohrid by Ali Pasha at the turn of the 19th century. he also talks about the Devoll region of Albania, which 150 years ago was full of both Macedonian and Albanian villages. All of the Macedonians were assimilated/fled due to conflict. His early history about the Albanians supports the idea that the ethnic boundary between the two peoples has slowly been moving East across the centuries. Once upon a time the ethnic boundary was West of Korca, by 1900 Albanians were on all sides of the Prespa and Ohrid lakes. Some even on the other sides near Lerin and Bitola, however these Albanians originate from Colonists from Albania.

For example, In his time the Macedonians and Macedonians Muslims near Peshkopia were already begginging to speak Albanian and identify as such.

He actually has written a lot about them, it depends on what you are looking for i guess. As always you have to look for the bias, which it is rife with.
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Old 08-03-2010, 09:38 AM   #5
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From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasil_Kanchov

Quote:
Vasil Kanchov was born in Vratsa. Upon graduating from High school in Lom, Bulgaria, he entered the University of Harkov, then in Russia. During the Serbo-Bulgarian War 1885 he suspended his education and took part in the war. Later, he went on to pursue studies at universities in Munich and Stuttgart, but in 1888 he interrupted his education again due to an illness.

In the following years Kanchov was a Bulgarian teacher in Macedonia. He was a teacher in the Bulgarian Men's High School of Thessaloniki (1888–1891), a director of Bulgarian schools in Serres district (1891–1892), a headmaster of Bulgarian Men's High School of Thessaloniki (1892–1893), а chief school inspector of the Bulgarian schools in Macedonia (1894–1897).

After 1898 Kanchov returned to Bulgaria and went into politics. In the beginning of 1902 he became an educational minister of Bulgaria, but was killed in his office by psychopath.

He travelled extensively after 1888, visiting and researching all over Macedonia.

So he was extremely well informed on the situation in Macedonia, since he visited each and every town, and many if not all, villages in Macedonia during his School Inspectorship. He naturaly was compelled to label all Macedonians as Bulgarians. It may have been his personal conviction, or it may have been just his obligation as an employee of the Bulgarian Exachate. But as a scientists, he was honest enough to admit that Macedonians do not self identify themselves as Bulgarians (or Serbs or Greeks) but simply as Macedonians (wihouth any additions or substrations), and that all the surrounding nations identify them as Macedonians. (He also mentioned that Greeks in Macedonia do not self identify themselves as Macedonians).

This is a remarkable find, and the credit goes to our brothers from Pirin Macedonia, form the newspaper www.narodnavolja.com, who discovered and published this few years ago. This is so big that it undermines the entire bulgarian propaganda. The leading bulgarian propagandist (thats who Kanchov was, since he was the Chief School Inspector in Macedonia for four years, in the most delicate period of the Macedonian Revival 1894–1897) admits that in spite of all his and Exarchate's efforst, and many milions of levs, drachmas and denars spent on propaganda, Macedonians still prefer to self identify themselves as Macedonians.

As to Epirotes question, Kanchov does mention Albanians as a separate nation, and they are included in his census. I can dig up some data for you if you want. But you are correct that the real ethnic border between Albanians and Macedonians was somewhat blurred. There were a number of people (villages) that were bilingual. By the toponims it looks like the Albanian language and culture was steadily advancing into the Macedonian (slavic speaking) teritory since the medieval times. The area of Matia, for example, now deeply in Albania, was known to be Slavic speaking.
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Old 08-03-2010, 10:33 AM   #6
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Compliments to the Daskale and the people of www.narodnavolja.com.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Epirot View Post
I ask because a friend of mine who know Macedonian translate to me some passages of G. Pulevski. If I am correct Pulevski did not see Albanians and Macedonians (of his time) as two distinct people. He noticed some similarity between two ethnic groups. Is that true?
He was distinguishing between those who today are known as Albanians.

The Tosks he saw as some Fokians, the Arnauts he saw as shqipers, and the Ghegs from Macedonia who he saw as muslimized Mijaks. He says that the language of the Arnauts and the Tosks is very different, and this difference is even greater cause the Tosks have greek loan words.

He tells that the muslimized Mijaks came from Dolna Reka in Debar vicinity, and at the beginning they had two leaders, Suljo Garne from Vele Brdo and Shaban Gega from Pristojnica, from 1820 till 1835.

They were acctually leaders of the Gegi bashibouzuk. He also states that this Gegi bashibouzuk have plundered the churches of the Sveta Gora (Hilendar) and the holy items were all handed over to the Mijaks, their brothers.

How much that all is true is uncertain!
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Old 08-03-2010, 01:08 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mastika View Post
He gives statistics of where the Albanians lived 100 years ago and gives some details regarding the colonisation of many parts of Macedonia by Albanians during the centuries long Ottoman Rule.
Anyway, not all of his statements should be taken seriously since he saw things from Bulgarian angle. Albanian colonisation as an expression is it hard to sustain since no literary record speaks of any influx en masse of Albanians into Macedonia. If modern Albanians represent some remnants of ancient Illyrians (Ghegs) and Epirots (Tosks) there is no room for inventing an Albanian "colonisation" of Macedonia.
It is well-attested Illyrian presence in most of western territories in Macedonia. The only "colonisation" that can be taken seriously is moving of some Albanians in some North-Western districts of today's Bulgaria.
There are some traces of an Albanian immigration toward Bulgaria as many indications proof it:

Quote:
Catholic settlers

Some of the earliest Albanian settlers in modern Bulgaria were the Roman Catholic ore miners in Kopilovtsi, Montana Province, a village in the vicinity of the larger mining centre Chiprovtsi. Kopilovtsi was settled between the 15th and the 17th century; a Catholic church was built in the early 17th century. Unlike the Catholic population in other villages of the region, Kopilovtsi's residents were of Albanian origin. In 1626, the Archbishop of Bar Pietro Masarechi claims that part of the Bulgarian Catholics are Albanians (Albanesi), Saxons and Paulicians. According to Bulgarian bishop Petar Bogdan, Kopilovtsi had 1,200 Catholics of Albanian origin who were still speaking the Albanian language in 1640. In another report from 1647, Petar Bogdan also lists 1,200 Albanian Catholics in Kopilovtsi, but notes that they have started using Slavic instead. By 1658, Petar Bogdan notes that the over 1,500 Albanians in Kopilovtsi spoke Bulgarian and only retained some traces of their original language. Kopilovtsi, along with Chiprovtsi, was depopulated with the crushing of the Chiprovtsi Uprising in 1688.[2]


Orthodox settlers
Albanian settlement in northern Bulgaria was not limited to Catholics—in a 1595 letter to the Prince of Transylvania, Ragusan merchant Pavel Đorđić notes that "in Bulgaria there are many villages inhabited by Albanians, from where 7,000 brave and well-trained men can be rallied". In the same letter, Đorđić claims that 1,500 of those Albanians lived near Tarnovo.[3]
Indeed, the toponym Arbanasi, a village near the city of Tarnovo, is a hint at Albanian settlement in the region. Arbanasi was populated (or repopulated) in the late 15th century and as an administratively autonomous village in the Ottoman Empire attracted many settlers. It is theorized that the first settlers were around 100–200 Albanians who were brought there during Bayezid II's campaigns in Albania. These settlers were gradually Hellenized and Bulgarianized in the following centuries.[4]
Other places in northern Bulgaria where an Albanian presence has been strongly suggested are Chervena Voda near Rousse, Poroishte near Razgrad, Dobrina near Provadia and Devnya near Varna.[5] Albanians have been registered in the modern Bulgarian capital Sofia since the early 17th century; other possible colonies south of the Balkan Mountains included Gorno Arbanasi and Dolno Arbanasi near Asenovgrad.[6] The most notable Albanian village in Bulgarian Thrace is Mandritsa near Ivaylovgrad, which was settled in the first half of the 17th century by settlers from near Kor็๋. A church was built in 1718.[7] The village reached its demographic peak before the Balkan Wars; in 1912, it was inhabited by 1,879 people.[8]
Quote:
Originally posted by Mastika

He doesn't shy away from history, he mentions the expulsion of Macedonians from the region south of Ohrid by Ali Pasha at the turn of the 19th century. he also talks about the Devoll region of Albania, which 150 years ago was full of both Macedonian and Albanian villages. All of the Macedonians were assimilated/fled due to conflict.
I am somehow dubious for such occurrence since as far I know for Ali Pasha's period there is no expulsion of Macedonians. It is true that there were some conflicts between some Vlachs pastoral communities and Ali Pasha's government but this was true as well as for Albanians since Ali Pasha's cruelty had no boundary. He behaved bad even to his Albanian followers. There are many cases when Albanian villages were forced to move on in order to safe from Ali's repercussions.

Quote:
Originally posted by Mastika

Once upon a time the ethnic boundary was West of Korca, by 1900 Albanians were on all sides of the Prespa and Ohrid lakes. Some even on the other sides near Lerin and Bitola, however these Albanians originate from Colonists from Albania.
This cannot be sustain since earlier Byzantine accounts makes known that Albanians lived in Ohrid and some regions in upper Haliacmon.

Quote:
Originally posted by Mastika

For example, In his time the Macedonians and Macedonians Muslims near Peshkopia were already begginging to speak Albanian and identify as such.
Reference please?
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Old 08-03-2010, 01:42 PM   #8
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The local Bulgarians and Kucovlachs who live in the area of Macedonia call themselves Macedonians, and the surrounding nations call them Macedonians. Turks and Albanians from Macedonia do not call themselves Macedonians, but when asked where they are from, they respond: from Macedonia... also Greeks who live in the southern area of Macedonia, do not call themselves Macedonians...

This should be the truth. My grandmother always told us same for Petrich at pre-1913 era. She was always telling us that the christians in that town was Macedonians. She never told us like they were Bulgars. If these people would identify themselves as Bulgars, then my grandmother would say us that they were Bulgars. Also whenever someone asked her about where she was from, she was telling us that she is from Macedonia. And you know, Petrich is in far north, so close to Bulgar populated areas. So, if the people in Petrich considered themselves as Macedonians, then there is no way that the people at southern sides would have been identified themselves as Bulgars either.

Also whenever she gets a bit nervous or joyous, she was starting to speak in a language which was foreign to me or speaking in Turkish with foreign words. When i asked her like "what are you telling me, i don't understand. Whats this language?". Then she was responding like "Makedonca" in Turkish, so "Macedonian language".







Quote:
Originally Posted by Epirot View Post
It is true that there were some conflicts between some Vlachs pastoral communities and Ali Pasha's government but this was true as well as for Albanians since Ali Pasha's cruelty had no boundary. He behaved bad even to his Albanian followers. There are many cases when Albanian villages were forced to move on in order to safe from Ali's repercussions.

You guys talking about the rebellious Albanian Ali pasha? Later killed by the Sultan`s order because of his actions?
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Old 08-03-2010, 03:45 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Onur View Post
Also whenever she gets a bit nervous or joyous, she was starting to speak in a language which was foreign to me or speaking in Turkish with foreign words. When i asked her like "what are you telling me, i don't understand. Whats this language?". Then she was responding like "Makedonca" in Turkish, so "Macedonian language".
Do you remember any of the words? If your grandmother is alive, could you ask her to tell you some words in Makedonca?
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Old 08-03-2010, 05:38 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daskalot View Post
Do you remember any of the words? If your grandmother is alive, could you ask her to tell you some words in Makedonca?

She passed away at 1993 but i remember few words;

draska; for something big, huge(and she was saying "Drazman" for tall and fat men, "katana" for tall and fat women )
gushtiri OR gushturi; lizard like animal
pisha; pee, piss
kopcha; pants or shirt button
neshmasha OR neshmishi; for clumsy person
selenka OR selanka; villager, hick
sedankah; she was using this when we were going to visit our relatives. Probably it`s something like "meeting, visit", not sure.



Thats all i remember atm. I still use draska and kopcha myself and my brother and sister too I tried to write those with english pronunciation but maybe it`s wrong, i am not sure... My uncle knows many more words and expressions than me, i gotta ask him when i see

Last edited by Onur; 08-03-2010 at 05:51 PM.
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