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Old 07-01-2009, 05:49 PM   #41
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Great thread guys.
What a wonderful collection of resources.
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Old 07-01-2009, 07:34 PM   #42
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Old 07-01-2009, 07:49 PM   #43
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Don't our Greek friends say the only Slavs in Morea were the Melingoi and Ezeritae. The above text shows they were the only ones who were not subdued. Another savage blow the the (many) Greek myths.
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Old 07-01-2009, 08:15 PM   #44
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Don't our Greek friends say the only Slavs in Morea were the Melingoi and Ezeritae. The above text shows they were the only ones who were not subdued. Another savage blow the the (many) Greek myths.
That is exactly right, the Peloponnese was swamped with Slavs, some happy to settle for East Roman rule, others such as the Ezerite and Melingoi were more independent by nature.
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Old 07-01-2009, 09:04 PM   #45
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My goodness, it would appear that Greece proper had more Slavs than Macedonia. Throw in some Venetians and Albanians ... then mix in some Turks with a hint of Vlach a little later on ... wrap them up to simmer in a Koine Orthodox tradition for a few hundred years ... and hey presto .... modern Greece.
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Old 07-02-2009, 06:30 AM   #46
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It's said that Slavs raid Crete in 623, so how can be that this Slavic presence can't be applied in same ways for the both sides?

http://history.heraklion.gr/backgrou...vel=2&sid=2329
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Old 07-02-2009, 08:01 AM   #47
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According to NGL Hammond the Slavs settled quite a few islands. The theory that you would find "pure" descendents of ancient hellenes in the islands is another myth. Corfu is a perfect example of a multi-racial island.
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Old 07-02-2009, 09:06 AM   #48
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It's said that Slavs raid Crete in 623, so how can be that this Slavic presence can't be applied in same ways for the both sides?

http://history.heraklion.gr/backgrou...vel=2&sid=2329
Exactly the point. Just as much Slavs, if not more, invaded the area known as today's Greece. What needs to be considered is that in ancient Europe, the Thracians were the 'largest population', in medieval Europe, the Slavs were the 'largest population'. The distance between these two groups in the linguistic sense would probably be akin to the distance between Balts and Slavs today, the Thracian language did not disappear, it just evolved with a new linguistic layer from a distant, yet related element. This is also why the Slavonic tribes that settled in Macedonia and Thrace were able to assimilate into the local population within a relatively short period of time as opposed to the tribes that travelled as far south as the Peloponnese. Indeed, while the Morean Slavs were still trying to stake their claim, the Slavonic tribes that had integrated Macedonians and Thracians were already soldiers and loyal citizens of East Rome.
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Old 07-02-2009, 10:15 AM   #49
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http://books.google.com.au/books?id=...esult&resnum=2



The above can serve as clear evidence of the continued reference to people of Macedonia Proper as Macedonians (along with those of the Macedonia Theme).
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Old 07-02-2009, 10:30 AM   #50
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I introduce you to the same, the great and the first city of the Macedonians............

The above was written by John Cametinae. Check the below:

http://www.deremilitari.org/resource...essaloniki.htm
Quote:
Thessaloniki, one of the largest cities of the Byzantine empire in the early tenth century, was captured and pillaged in 904 by a Muslim force led by Leo of Tripoli. The following account of the short siege comes from John Kaminiates, who was captured and taken as a prisoner with his father and brothers. He wrote a letter to Gregory of Kappadokia while he was in captivity, concluding it around the end of September 905.
From the above link, here is an interesting excerpt from the text:

Quote:
They (Muslims; My Note) swooped down with their ships towards those points which had been described to them, letting out harsh and savage cries and rowing furiously in the direction of the wall. And banging on rawhide drums, they raised a fearful din, and they tried with many other kinds of bluff to frighten the defenders on the battlements. But those who were manning the wall shouted back even louder and invoked the aid of the saving weapon of the cross against the enemy forces. And they did this to such an effect that the barbarians, at the sound of so many people uttering a cry more fearsome than any they had previously heard, were dazed for a while and did not expect to achieve anything. Estimating the numbers of the citizens from the loudness of their shouts, they concluded that it would be no easy matter to enter the fray against such odds and to sack so great a city, the like of which they had never seen. Nevertheless, in order not to create the impression of having lost their nerve at the start of their offensive, they advanced neither fearlessly, nor with the rage which they later displayed, but with a certain blend of frenzy and fear, protecting themselves against their opponents by means of a barrage of missiles. Then their approach became more reckless and they strove to bring the fighting nearer, rousing themselves to fury like barking dogs and thoroughly enraged by the weapons that were hurled down at them from the wall. The citizens (of Salonika: My Note), in fact, were anything but remiss in their use of archery, and used it to great and conspicuous effect by stationing all the Sklavenes [a southern Slav peoples] gathered from the neighbouring regions at those points from which it was easiest to shoot accurately and where there was nothing to deflect the momentum of their missiles.
There they are again, the Christians used 'their' neighbouring Slavs as archers - The Slavs, Macedonians, defenders of Salonika against the Muslim attack and Leo the turncoat (who converted to Islam at some stage). Note that there were no neighbouring 'Greeks' to send for.
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