The Macedonian Cause

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  • George S.
    Senior Member
    • Aug 2009
    • 10116

    how about the people that divided Macedonia like GReece,BUlgaria,Albania,THey need to be informed ,educated??to recognize macedonia as Macedonia.WE need to tell them our identity is not negotiable,we will not compromise on our name for the sake of it.World recognition of macedonia as a whole,Macedonians as a whole in the diaspora.Our mission should be to free the ethnic Macedonians in bulgaria &Greece & albania to demandtheir freedom.
    Last edited by George S.; 11-11-2009, 03:50 AM. Reason: edit
    "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
    GOTSE DELCEV

    Comment

    • Coolski
      Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 747

      Originally posted by Rogi View Post
      On the first comment, the sentence is not duplicated, the difference is that one says Macedonia is 'of' and the other says 'for' and there is a distinction there in practical and philosophical meaning.

      All the other ones I am happy with, though I'm unsure about the religious institutions addition, that could open it up even further
      Ah, sorry man I didn't read the first one properly. Yeah i wasn't sure about the religious institutions one, because the Orthodox church is later mentioned with regards to the Serb, Greek and Bulgar churches admitting their atrocities.
      - Секој чоек и нација има можност да успеат колку шо си дозволуваат. Нема изговор.
      - Every human and nation has the ability to be as great or as weak as they allow themselves to be. No excuses.

      Comment

      • UMDiaspora.org
        Member
        • Oct 2009
        • 525

        UMD commends you all on your efforts to define what is the Macedonian Cause. Just a suggestion for the time being, something regarding the genocidal acts committed against Macedonians by Greece, and other neighboring countries in the history of Macedonia and the Macedonian people should be inserted in the text.

        Read a past op-ed by UMD in the Washington Times regarding the topic of genocide of the Macedonian people: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...hnic-misdeeds/
        For comments, questions, concerns, please contact us at:

        United Macedonian Diaspora
        http://www.umdiaspora.org

        1101 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW, 6th Floor, Washington, D.C. 20004, United States
        Phone: (202) 756-2244, Fax: (202) 756-7323, E-mail: [email protected]

        PO Box 2153, Hawthorn, Vic. 3122, Australia
        Phone: 0438 385 466, E-mail: [email protected]

        3555 St. Clair Avenue East, Toronto, ON, M1K 1L6, Canada
        Phone: 416-209-0448, E-mail: [email protected]

        Comment

        • George S.
          Senior Member
          • Aug 2009
          • 10116

          the Macedonian cause should be unwavering that is we don't want our name changed,we don't want to be members of nato or eu if we are to change our name.No compromise.
          THe committing of genocide must be admitted by all & sundry they should be sorry for what the done.
          Last edited by George S.; 11-25-2009, 02:57 PM. Reason: edit
          "Ido not want an uprising of people that would leave me at the first failure, I want revolution with citizens able to bear all the temptations to a prolonged struggle, what, because of the fierce political conditions, will be our guide or cattle to the slaughterhouse"
          GOTSE DELCEV

          Comment

          • Phoenix
            Senior Member
            • Dec 2008
            • 4671

            Originally posted by Rogi View Post
            This thread is solely devoted to our combined efforts in defining the Macedonian Cause. Please post your feedback, additions and changes in this thread. The moderators will edit this first post to include your changes until we have all agreed on a complete, perfect, unwavering and timeless definition of the Macedonian Cause.
            ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



            The Macedonian Cause



            .
            The international recognition of the tragedies of the Macedonian people and genocide committed against the Macedonian people, specifically at the hands of the Greek, Bulgarian and Serbian states and churches, respectively, leading up to and since the division of Macedonia with the signing of the Treaty of Bucharest on August 10, 1913.
            Can we be specific about the greeks, bulgars and serbs whilst we make no mention of the Ottomans or even the albanians and to some extent the Americans and their role in 2001...perhaps we need to avoid mentioning names for the fear that we my exclude somebody in our grievances

            Is there scope to mention the natural environment in some way...afterall, it has shaped our destiny in many ways and will be linked to our prosperity, it fashions our psyche as a unique people...

            Comment

            • Risto the Great
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 15658

              Valid points Phoenix, we have real threats in the USA and EU that I hope we will never have to add.

              I had a couple of posts partly in relation to this at #11 and #18. But to completely ignore the Ottomans and the terror they wreaked seems wrong. Perhaps the omission can be justified because they really no longer exist and have no relevance in a modern Turkey since the Young Turks had their way.

              I am happy to identify the (modern) nations that have historically caused us grief. But I think we need a new paragraph about "vigilance" in relation to new threats to the Macedonian identity coming from nations and or associations that seek to control/influence Macedonia for their benefit.

              I think this aspect needs more thought. Your fresh eyes have been beneficial!
              Risto the Great
              MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
              "Holding my breath for the revolution."

              Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

              Comment

              • Soldier of Macedon
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 13670

                Originally posted by UMDiaspora.org View Post
                UMD commends you all on your efforts to define what is the Macedonian Cause. Just a suggestion for the time being, something regarding the genocidal acts committed against Macedonians by Greece, and other neighboring countries in the history of Macedonia and the Macedonian people should be inserted in the text.

                Read a past op-ed by UMD in the Washington Times regarding the topic of genocide of the Macedonian people: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...hnic-misdeeds/
                Does the UMD agree with the Macedonian Cause as defined at the MTO, and if so, is it prepared to espouse it?
                In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                Comment

                • UMDiaspora.org
                  Member
                  • Oct 2009
                  • 525

                  Telephone

                  Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
                  Does the UMD agree with the Macedonian Cause as defined at the MTO, and if so, is it prepared to espouse it?
                  UMD has tried to reach you numerous times by telephone to talk to you to offer advice about this working document.
                  For comments, questions, concerns, please contact us at:

                  United Macedonian Diaspora
                  http://www.umdiaspora.org

                  1101 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW, 6th Floor, Washington, D.C. 20004, United States
                  Phone: (202) 756-2244, Fax: (202) 756-7323, E-mail: [email protected]

                  PO Box 2153, Hawthorn, Vic. 3122, Australia
                  Phone: 0438 385 466, E-mail: [email protected]

                  3555 St. Clair Avenue East, Toronto, ON, M1K 1L6, Canada
                  Phone: 416-209-0448, E-mail: [email protected]

                  Comment

                  • Soldier of Macedon
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 13670

                    How did the UMD obtain my telephone number to make attempts at reaching me numerous times? I don't understand.
                    In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                    Comment

                    • UMDiaspora.org
                      Member
                      • Oct 2009
                      • 525

                      Number

                      Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
                      How did the UMD obtain my telephone number to make attempts at reaching me numerous times? I don't understand.
                      You included your telephone number in the e-mail you sent to UMD's e-mail [email protected].
                      For comments, questions, concerns, please contact us at:

                      United Macedonian Diaspora
                      http://www.umdiaspora.org

                      1101 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW, 6th Floor, Washington, D.C. 20004, United States
                      Phone: (202) 756-2244, Fax: (202) 756-7323, E-mail: [email protected]

                      PO Box 2153, Hawthorn, Vic. 3122, Australia
                      Phone: 0438 385 466, E-mail: [email protected]

                      3555 St. Clair Avenue East, Toronto, ON, M1K 1L6, Canada
                      Phone: 416-209-0448, E-mail: [email protected]

                      Comment

                      • AMHRC
                        De-registered
                        • Sep 2009
                        • 919

                        Detailed Work

                        Wow! Some real effort has really gone into this and I have to say that the spirit of what has been put down on the preceding pages is generally in line with what the AMHRC stands for. For example, we and our partners, MHRMI, have consistently called upon the government of the Republic of Macedonia, to end the name talks etc. Though we might need to be careful that we are not in some parts implying that we are demanding border changes and wars in the Balkans again etc. The part on national unification could be misinterpreted that way.

                        However, the core of what is advocated here, is in line with AMHRC policy; it will be a powerful statement when it is finally completed. Well done to everyone who has contributed to it and well done to MTO for facilitating it.

                        Cheers,

                        AMHRC.

                        Comment

                        • Soldier of Macedon
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 13670

                          Originally posted by AMHRC
                          Though we might need to be careful that we are not in some parts implying that we are demanding border changes and wars in the Balkans again etc. The part on national unification could be misinterpreted that way.
                          Although it is not intended to mean geographical unification, I can see the point you're trying to make. How would you suggest it can be improved?
                          Originally posted by UMDiaspora.org
                          You included your telephone number in the e-mail you sent to UMD's e-mail [email protected].
                          To my best recollection, I have never sent an email to the UMD. You are clearly making reference to a person other than myself, or a person that has claimed to be myself. Either way, I would appreciate your clarity on this matter.
                          In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                          Comment

                          • UMDiaspora.org
                            Member
                            • Oct 2009
                            • 525

                            Pardon our mistake, it was Risto the Great whom we called.
                            For comments, questions, concerns, please contact us at:

                            United Macedonian Diaspora
                            http://www.umdiaspora.org

                            1101 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW, 6th Floor, Washington, D.C. 20004, United States
                            Phone: (202) 756-2244, Fax: (202) 756-7323, E-mail: [email protected]

                            PO Box 2153, Hawthorn, Vic. 3122, Australia
                            Phone: 0438 385 466, E-mail: [email protected]

                            3555 St. Clair Avenue East, Toronto, ON, M1K 1L6, Canada
                            Phone: 416-209-0448, E-mail: [email protected]

                            Comment

                            • Soldier of Macedon
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 13670

                              Thanks for clarifying.

                              I take it that you're not prepared to respond to my initial question in public. Thanks for that too.
                              In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                              Comment

                              • AMHRC
                                De-registered
                                • Sep 2009
                                • 919

                                Misinterpretation

                                Yes SOM, it's the possibility misinterpretation that we are worried about. Perhaps cultural unification needs to be emphasised; though it depends ultimately, on the intention of the section. When I think of cultural, I think in terms of ethno-cultural in the present context - I suppose it's my training in social philosophy that leads me to think like this.

                                We are talking about the Macedonians in Egej for (and Pirin and Prespa of course too!) being officially recognised by the Greek state; having Macedonian language classes funded by the Greek state; programs for de-stigmatisation etc. so that the Macedonians in Greece can finally begin to feel safe and at the same time begin to develop for themselves, a stronger cultural connection to the Macedonians in the Republic of Macedonia - all leading to reconciliation; the end of repression and the healing of trans-generational trauma. Lets just avoid any possibility of misinterpretation, because the bigots in this dispute, love to twist our words, whenever they can.

                                So, all in all, this is a document that the AMHRC is prepared to back - much of it is already assumed by us in our work.


                                Cheers,

                                AMHRC.
                                Last edited by AMHRC; 12-27-2009, 08:39 AM. Reason: Forgot something

                                Comment

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