"Pride Parade" in Skopje

[Risto the Great]

That video never panned around to fully show how many people were actually there. I wonder how many actual Macedonians were there. Very "Balkan" in character.

[Gocka]

Gocka,

Counter protest was shown here, at the 1 minute mark:

https://www.rferl.org/a/skopje-holds.../30027539.html

Where were you majmuni to protest IMPORTANT things!

Looks just as small as the pride march.

[Soldier of Macedon]

A few hundred pederi marching has absolutely no significance in relation to what happened or what is happening. Its not like there are no gay people in Macedonia.

I am sure they exist in Macedonia, I just consider Macedonia's cultural identity more important than their right to impose their unconventional ways on a largely Orthodox Christian country that has centuries of traditional values in its history and is at a crossroads at the moment. Their timing couldn't be more horrible.

I think we want to directly associate this to the name change but I don't think that is accurate. Those 400 gay people didn't change Macedonia's name.

It's all relative. Those people may not have changed Macedonia's name but they supported those that did and are so thankful to the current regime that they've already adopted the northie moniker. That being the case, they are just as treacherous as the rest of the traitors.

[Liberator of Makedonija]

I am sure they exist in Macedonia, I just consider Macedonia's cultural identity more important than their right to impose their unconventional ways on a largely Orthodox Christian country that has centuries of traditional values in its history and is at a crossroads at the moment. Their timing couldn't be more horrible.

Agreed on the bad timing.

It's all relative. Those people may not have changed Macedonia's name but they supported those that did and are so thankful to the current regime that they've already adopted the northie moniker. That being the case, they are just as treacherous as the rest of the traitors.

I consider them to be a class of people that were abandoned by Macedonian society which failed them completely. There are quite a few very patriotic LGBT Macedonians in Melbourne but I understand the LGBT community in the Republic was continuously let-down by politicians. Honestly once again the root of this issue for me is in the poor choices of successive governments (particulary DPNE) that lead to these people and others like them feeling isolated and disconnected from the rest of the nation. Are they traitors? Yes. Are they on the same level as the politicians who sold us out? No.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Agreed on the bad timing.

And not on the rest?

I consider them to be a class of people that were abandoned by Macedonian society which failed them completely.

I have ancestors who fought, bled and died for a Macedonia free to practice its own culture as far back as the 19th and 20th centuries. I have relatives in the 21st century who live in villages with conditions almost on par with some African countries and have had their inherited legacy dishonoured by traitors. And you want Macedonian society to give preference to people who exhibit a sexual predisposition to the same gender over their own dire concerns? Please. Let them live as they wish, however much at odds it is with Macedonian culture, but they are not and should not be the priority in tormented Macedonia.

There are quite a few very patriotic LGBT Macedonians in Melbourne but I understand the LGBT community in the Republic was continuously let-down by politicians.

Quite a few? Clearly, you're exaggerating. And if there are such rare people it is only because they were brought up by patriotic families in Australia.

Are they traitors? Yes. Are they on the same level as the politicians who sold us out? No.

Why not? What makes them any different to the other traitors? Because they were marginalised by a previous government? They weren't the only group of people who felt that way. And if that is all it took for them to embrace the new regime and all of the treachery it entails, then they are absolutely on the same level as the other traitors.

[Liberator of Makedonija]

And not on the rest? I have ancestors who fought, bled and died for a Macedonia free to practice its own culture as far back as the 19th and 20th centuries. I have relatives in the 21st century who live in villages with conditions almost on par with some African countries and have had their inherited legacy dishonoured by traitors. And you want Macedonian society to give preference to people who exhibit a sexual predisposition to the same gender over their own dire concerns? Please. Let them live as they wish, however much at odds it is with Macedonian culture, but they are not and should not be the priority in tormented Macedonia.

I too have ancestors who fought, bled and died for Macedonia. I also have family still living who fought for our country. I fail to see the relevance?

Quite a few? Clearly, you're exaggerating. And if there are such rare people it is only because they were brought up by patriotic families in Australia.

No? Why would I exaggerate that? Does the idea of LGBT Macedonians actually caring about their country come as a shock to you? The Macedonian community in Melbourne is entering its 4th generation, there are plenty of Macedonians here who love their country that would not even be accepted in it. I personally know some LGBT Macedonians who proudly declare themselves to be just that, Macedonian, and are against what is happening over there.

Why not? What makes them any different to the other traitors? Because they were marginalised by a previous government? They weren't the only group of people who felt that way. And if that is all it took for them to embrace the new regime and all of the treachery it entails, then they are absolutely on the same level as the other traitors.

I just can't view them on that level, the situation isn't as simple as that. I saw this all happening years ago, it could have been prevented back then.

[Soldier of Macedon]

I too have ancestors who fought, bled and died for Macedonia. I also have family still living who fought for our country. I fail to see the relevance?

That you would assume I am interested engaging in a petty game of one-upmanship suggests you have indeed failed to see the relevance. The essence of my earlier post relates to priorities. Honouring the memory of our ancestors. Maintaining our culture. Improving the living conditions of our people. These are real issues and exponentially more important than the right of this supposedly abandoned class of people to express their views on sexuality in the public sphere at a time when Macedonia is hurting so much. This is not what our forefathers envisioned for our nation and homeland. I can accept that the existence of such people in Macedonian society is a reality today, but their desire to parade about their sexual preferences doesn't even register in terms of importance when compared to the many problems that face Macedonia right now.

Why would I exaggerate that?

To strengthen a weak point.

I personally know some LGBT Macedonians who proudly declare themselves to be just that, Macedonian, and are against what is happening over there.

So "quite a few" is now "some", fine. As for them being against it, shouldn't they be happier now that they can freely chassé themselves in colourful street marches in Skopje? How could they not be for North Macedonia?

I just can't view them on that level, the situation isn't as simple as that. I saw this all happening years ago, it could have been prevented back then.

It actually is as simple as that. Previous governments didn't pander to them and this one does. Now they embrace northism. But for argument's sake, let's say I am wrong. How could it have been prevented? What could the government have done? How do you see that lifestyle being compatible with Macedonian culture and mainstream Macedonian society?

[Liberator of Makedonija]

So "quite a few" is now "some", fine. As for them being against it, shouldn't they be happier now that they can freely chassé themselves in colourful street marches in Skopje? How could they not be for North Macedonia?

You make the mistake of assuming their sexuality is front and centre and supercedes their patriotism. I saw on Facebook a notable from the LGBT community in the RoM who criticised the parades and attacked the government; he was against the name-change. Furthermore I said there were quite a few patriotic LGBT Macedonians in Melbourne but that I personally only knew some of them.

It actually is as simple as that. Previous governments didn't pander to them and this one does. Now they embrace northism. But for argument's sake, let's say I am wrong. How could it have been prevented? What could the government have done? How do you see that lifestyle being compatible with Macedonian culture and mainstream Macedonian society?

Tolerance. They were continuously demonised by government and media alike, had they just been left alone the situation may be different now. I would say indifference would have been the best path as it avoided by antagonising conservatives and the community alike.

[Gocka]

I am sure they exist in Macedonia, I just consider Macedonia's cultural identity more important than their right to impose their unconventional ways on a largely Orthodox Christian country that has centuries of traditional values in its history and is at a crossroads at the moment. Their timing couldn't be more horrible.

It's all relative. Those people may not have changed Macedonia's name but they supported those that did and are so thankful to the current regime that they've already adopted the northie moniker. That being the case, they are just as treacherous as the rest of the traitors.

Ill timed sure. Then again I don't know if it would ever have been perceived as a good time. Gays in Macedonia have been repressed for a long time, it was only a matter of time until they emerged from the shadows. For those who support the name change, they are all treacherous in my opinion regardless of other factors I put them all in the same boat. I don't really know any gay Macedonians other than Meto at UMD, so I don't know what their stance is.

What I am confused about is are you mad that they support the name change or that they are gay, or that they are publicly gay?

What do you mean by impose their ways?

[Soldier of Macedon]

You make the mistake of assuming their sexuality is front and centre and supercedes their patriotism.

Do you believe there is even a single participant of that parade who considers patriotism above their own sexual preference?

I saw on Facebook a notable from the LGBT community in the RoM who criticised the parades and attacked the government; he was against the name-change.

Who is this brave soul?

Furthermore I said there were quite a few patriotic LGBT Macedonians in Melbourne but that I personally only knew some of them.

If you don't know them all how can you claim there are "quite a few", the implication being that there are many of them?

Tolerance. They were continuously demonised by government and media alike, had they just been left alone the situation may be different now. I would say indifference would have been the best path as it avoided by antagonising conservatives and the community alike.

How were they demonised by the government and media?

[Soldier of Macedon]

Gays in Macedonia have been repressed for a long time, it was only a matter of time until they emerged from the shadows.

By repressed, are you referring to the law or society?

I don't really know any gay Macedonians other than Meto at UMD, so I don't know what their stance is.

Lol. Are you serious?

What I am confused about is are you mad that they support the name change or that they are gay, or that they are publicly gay?

You wouldn't be confused had you properly read what I wrote. Am I "mad" that they are gay? Come on. I don't even know them. C'est la vie. Do I despise them for supporting a name change? Damn right. Do I detest them for using this moment, when Macedonia is being culturally and morally destroyed, to showcase their sexuality (and in the presence of regime members, mind you), like we don't already know they exist? Yes. I see it as blatant opportunism from both sides.

What do you mean by impose their ways?

Using public exhibitions to gradually portray something that isn't biologically natural as a regular part of Macedonian society and soliciting the support and assistance of the current regime to meet that objective. Yes, there are gay people in Macedonia and they should not be treated like garbage. But the utopia they strive for is but an abstract concept and in reality their sexuality will never been perceived as conventional by most Macedonians because it is completely incompatible with Macedonian culture. One has to lose. What do you want for them in Macedonia? The same deal they have in the West and all that has been subsequently associated with it these days? Think it through and consider what comes next. Are you comfortable with newborns being deemed "genderless" by their idiotically progressive parents? Are you fine with teachers telling your male child that he can choose to be a girl? How about 6 foot tall men demanding to use the female bathroom because they woke up one morning and decided that they "feel" like a woman? If your answer is no to the above, then let me know what your idea of the end game is here. And if you do think there should be an endgame, aren't you then "infringing" on their rights, as today's lefties would have you believe?

[Liberator of Makedonija]

Do you believe there is even a single participant of that parade who considers patriotism above their own sexual preference?

In that parade? No, but it exists amongst others.

Who is this brave soul?

This leads into what I said before about those outside the parade. I can't remember the name but he's an older bloke, I think he's quite well known within the LGBT community over there and he heavily criticised the parade. Honestly don't remember the name, just came up on my Facebook a few days ago.

If you don't know them all how can you claim there are "quite a few", the implication being that there are many of them?

Mutual friends situation.

How were they demonised by the government and media?

Let's make no illusions that any sort of deviation from strict heterosexuality in the Republic of Macedonia is frowned upon at best. There exists a culture in RoM that those who do not fit nice and neatly within the country's social definition of what is acceptable sexually are pervasive and an afront. The amount of Macedonian articles I have seen in circulation lately actually referring to LGBT people as "devil worshippors" who are "doing the work of satan" is both laughable and sad.

[Soldier of Macedon]

The amount of Macedonian articles I have seen in circulation lately actually referring to LGBT people as "devil worshippors" who are "doing the work of satan" is both laughable and sad.

You indicated that they have been demonised by the government. Can you point to a law in Macedonia which demonises them?

[Liberator of Makedonija]

You indicated that they have been demonised by the government. Can you point to a law in Macedonia which demonises them?

No, the Republic of Macedonia doesn't have any explicit anti-LGBT legislation to my knowledge.

[Risto the Great]

Didn't the previous collection of gypsies (DPmNE) seek to define what marriage wasn't. Arguably that was anti-LGBT. Not that I care.

https://balkaninsight.com/2014/07/01/macedonia-in-fresh-defense-of-traditional-marriage/

Either way, to rank the rights of LGBT higher than the right to be treated as humans mystifies me. Macedonians are ranked lower than any other human in any other nation simply because they have lost their sovereignty. Sure, anyone can line up and air their grievances, but it is disgusting to see the Severedonians simply accept their pathetic predicament.

Mind you, when I see the LGBT'+++++s marching in their pride marches and acting out all their copulation manoeuvres and kinky sex routines publicly, I am utterly disgusted and think they should be shot. But maybe I am getting old.