Macedonians Storm Parliament

[vicsinad]

Во Основниот суд во Прилеп вчера почна судењето на Димче Христоски - Жабето (32), обвинет за убиство на Никола Мојсоски - Кољо (37) и Елена Талеска (4) што се случи на годинешниот "Пиво-фест" во Прилеп.

http://star.utrinski.com.mk/?pBroj=1946&stID=57765&pR=15

http://centarnews.net/HQ/mk/index.php/news/mk/item/51632-raskol-vo-patriotskite-zdruzhenija-od-prilep-izigrani-od-gruevski

https://twitter.com/VidanaDeSign/status/858373674113671169

[Pelagonija]

Pelagonija, you mentioned partitioning Macedonia a couple of times now. The first time, I figured you were just being deliberately provocative to make the point regarding our people's inept capacity to hang on to their achieved statehood. Lyubcho Georgievski was promoting this as an option too. I was left speechless then and now you too have left me scratching my head. Are we that fickle that we should ever entertain such ideas? No one wants to live side by side with the shiptari (despite the bullshit propaganda regarding the generations of good will between the two groups) but that is not a legitimate reason to abandon your house to the shiptar squatters. 200 years of shiptar squatting in western Macedonia is one thing but willingly relinquishing control of the most beautiful part of Macedonia should never even enter the mind of a Macedonian. I disagree with you completely on this issue and I hope you can see the error in your line of thinking - there is nothing left to partition.

Just for the record books I'm not for giving 1cm to the shiptari.. simply making a point that leftist Macedonians are hell bent on giving the keys to the joint to the Albanians..

Let's not have partition thought let's make Albanian official even in places where there are no Albanians, hey let's sing the Albanian national anthem in our parliament.. Thought provoking in order to highlight the insanity and illogical thinking of some Macedonians.

[Pelagonija]

Actually, I don't think it's a foregone conclusion. I'm just contributing my thoughts on a temporary fix to this current political mess.



I'm not.



If you can't provide a map, then perhaps you could provide a description of your new partitioned borders? You know, something like "west of Skopje and north of Lake Ohrid." I want to know how much property I'll inherit from my parents and in-laws in this "new Albania."

We don't even need Bulgaria or Greece to help initiate Macedonia's division, we have our own patriots who are willing to cut it in half all for the idea of a "chista Makedonija!"




History has shown how dangerous, irresponsible and counter-productive this would be.

Didn't you write that ZZ should get the go ahead? Didn't ZZ go to Switzerland and say he was happy for his kids to learn Albanian in strumica?

Yes or No!?

[Stojacanec]

No government should have a mandate that works with Albanian agendas. Signs are written in Albanian, as if they were foreigners.

Where do you think all of this was headed?

[Phoenix]

Facebook video posted by DPMNE MP Ljupco Dimovski shows DPMNE members cheering, shaking hands and hugging the people that stormed the parliament:

https://www.facebook.com/100007895680639/videos/1927473194192518/

And DPMNE Minister of Culture Elizabeta Kamcevska-Milevska is captured hugging one of the masked bullies:


Also, the MOI confirmed that one of the arrested people for the violence is employed in MOI's State Security Service:

http://telma.com.mk/vesti/vraboten-vo-ubk-na-mvr-megju-5-te-privedeni-za-nasilstvata-vo-sobranieto

Even more evidence that this was organized and supported by DPMNE.

Dragan, you frame your entire post in such negative language, I find it particularly disturbing and disappointing...your focus should be on the unconstitutional method used to elect a new parliamentary speaker, not the aftermath.
I never knew that democracy was enacted on the very outer periphery of constitutional law, behind the back of the president, by stealth and by whisper in darkened rooms and hallways...this should be the focus of your outrage here (and of a few other members here on the MTO), not the disgraceful name and shame obsession that a few of you have here.

Your anger should be fixed on the method of the madness, the blatant disregard for the democratic process, because if you, as a citizen of Macedonia accept that the speaker of parliament can be elected in such a manner, then you should fear the potential malevolent power of that new regime, if you really care for the future of Macedonia you should be shit scared about what could follow next...a new government formed behind the veil of secrecy and having absolutely no transparency will be the thug, bully and monster of your worst nightmares.

[Gocka]

You are right on this point. There should be outrage and disgust about a lot of things, but guess what sucked all the air out of the room? The fact that masked thugs entered a parliament and beat people up. That has taken all the attention, and has almost given cover to what was actually happening that day. People didn't get a chance to be outraged about the underhanded dealings because the attack was so in your face.

Let me ask you a serious question, when and where was the last place you saw masked men attacking members of a parliament, anywhere in the civilized and even uncivilized world? How can a logical person expect such an event to be perceived by others? Is it really a shock that people seem drawn to the brawl?

A person more inclined to conspiracy could certainly say that the attack did a really good job of giving cover to the political actions that were undertaken, and helped de-legitimize the opposition even further, making any counter to those political actions impossible.

I still find it suspicious that Sela of all people was targeted. It was the leader of Besa singing the Albanian anthem, Xaferi was just elected speaker, Zaev and Shekirinska are ring leaders, all these people were just as accessible during the chaos, yet they all walked away with scratches. No one hates DPA more than DUI

Your anger should be fixed on the method of the madness, the blatant disregard for the democratic process, because if you, as a citizen of Macedonia accept that the speaker of parliament can be elected in such a manner, then you should fear the potential malevolent power of that new regime, if you really care for the future of Macedonia you should be shit scared about what could follow next...a new government formed behind the veil of secrecy and having absolutely no transparency will be the thug, bully and monster of your worst nightmares.

[Pelagonija]

Dragan, you frame your entire post in such negative language, I find it particularly disturbing and disappointing...your focus should be on the unconstitutional method used to elect a new parliamentary speaker, not the aftermath.
I never knew that democracy was enacted on the very outer periphery of constitutional law, behind the back of the president, by stealth and by whisper in darkened rooms and hallways...this should be the focus of your outrage here (and of a few other members here on the MTO), not the disgraceful name and shame obsession that a few of you have here.

Your anger should be fixed on the method of the madness, the blatant disregard for the democratic process, because if you, as a citizen of Macedonia accept that the speaker of parliament can be elected in such a manner, then you should fear the potential malevolent power of that new regime, if you really care for the future of Macedonia you should be shit scared about what could follow next...a new government formed behind the veil of secrecy and having absolutely no transparency will be the thug, bully and monster of your worst nightmares.

You can't argue with the left.. look at Germany.. people come out and protest against uncontrolled migration eg Pegida. The left then goes out and starts protesting against them for protesting, starting fights, calling them fascists.. etc

Same mentality with MKD, this artificial fight has been started by the Left and regardless how much they are willing to sell out mkd, left people will come out and say it's all ok.. Gruo would have done it anyway.

[Pelagonija]

You are right on this point. There should be outrage and disgust about a lot of things, but guess what sucked all the air out of the room? The fact that masked thugs entered a parliament and beat people up. That has taken all the attention, and has almost given cover to what was actually happening that day. People didn't get a chance to be outraged about the underhanded dealings because the attack was so in your face.

Let me ask you a serious question, when and where was the last place you saw masked men attacking members of a parliament, anywhere in the civilized and even uncivilized world? How can a logical person expect such an event to be perceived by others? Is it really a shock that people seem drawn to the brawl?

A person more inclined to conspiracy could certainly say that the attack did a really good job of giving cover to the political actions that were undertaken, and helped de-legitimize the opposition even further, making any counter to those political actions impossible.

I still find it suspicious that Sela of all people was targeted. It was the leader of Besa singing the Albanian anthem, Xaferi was just elected speaker, Zaev and Shekirinska are ring leaders, all these people were just as accessible during the chaos, yet they all walked away with scratches. No one hates DPA more than DUI

Is it really true that they sang the Alb anthem? Or this fake news? If true that's treason and insane?

F'd up

[Albo]

I still find it suspicious that Sela of all people was targeted. It was the leader of Besa singing the Albanian anthem, Xaferi was just elected speaker, Zaev and Shekirinska are ring leaders, all these people were just as accessible during the chaos, yet they all walked away with scratches.

The dickhead from besa who sang the national anthem wasn't the leader of Besa but just a deputy, the 5 besa deputies walked out of the parliament before the raid took place.. which has led some to speculate that they were given prior notice by vmro that the parliament was going to be raided..

Vmro if they were ever to get back in power need an Albanian junior partner.. they have burned their bridges with dui..and Sela isn't an option.. so they need to be friendly with someone...

Also let's not forget that it was Besa that refused to take part in the joint meeting between all Albanian parties at the time of the wording and signing of the platform in Skopje.. which led to them all going to Rama and hence the "Tiranaska Platforma" was born..

Vmro NOT ONCE during the 20 day negotiations with dui to form government mentioned the words " TIRANSKA PLATFORMA" When negotiations broke down due to the Special Prosecutors mandate not being extended was the first time the term was used...

Vmro knows that that there isn't a single point in the platform that was added or worded by Tirana... these points were all in the platforms of the Albanian parties not only now but have been since independence.. ( if you read their platforms of the parties you will see they are way more spacific and extensive compared to the platform..)

There is a lot of dirty politics going on from all sided here.. but the violence that was seen across the world had only enhanced Zaev and the opposition in the eyes of the world.. let's not forget to mention that stories of Selas bloodied body being dragged and paraded through the corridors of the parliament has made him an overnight hero to many Albanians overnight.. the fact that the Besa deputies walked out before the violence began and that most dui members were largely untouched has increased support for Sela!

[Phoenix]

You are right on this point. There should be outrage and disgust about a lot of things, but guess what sucked all the air out of the room? The fact that masked thugs entered a parliament and beat people up. That has taken all the attention, and has almost given cover to what was actually happening that day. People didn't get a chance to be outraged about the underhanded dealings because the attack was so in your face.

Let me ask you a serious question, when and where was the last place you saw masked men attacking members of a parliament, anywhere in the civilized and even uncivilized world? How can a logical person expect such an event to be perceived by others? Is it really a shock that people seem drawn to the brawl?

A person more inclined to conspiracy could certainly say that the attack did a really good job of giving cover to the political actions that were undertaken, and helped de-legitimize the opposition even further, making any counter to those political actions impossible.

I still find it suspicious that Sela of all people was targeted. It was the leader of Besa singing the Albanian anthem, Xaferi was just elected speaker, Zaev and Shekirinska are ring leaders, all these people were just as accessible during the chaos, yet they all walked away with scratches. No one hates DPA more than DUI

Gocka,

I think you and a few others here are fixated too strongly on the very few masked protesters and the negative perception or lack of legitimacy that their involvement brings to the overall protest movement.
I'm not even aware of their (masked protesters) numbers or if their actions were on par with other protesters, or markedly more violent.
What I'm sure about is that protesters in masks (all over the world) are far more common than what you may realise...I think the argument is neither here nor there, regarding how they were dressed.

Lets not forget that demonstrations had been regularly and strongly attended in a peaceful manner for close to 2 months prior to this event and knowing that every protest movement anywhere in the world will have it's share of 'undesirables' within it...from a strictly personal point of view I thought the protesters went too easy on the politicians (for want of a better word)...if a similar stunt was to occur in your homeland (the land of the free), they would've assaulted Capitol Hill armed to the teeth, as is their alleged right to challenge tyranny...and you guys are now 'embarrassed' by a couple of fat cunts wearing balaclavas and man-bags, running around parliament...give me a break, man...

There's an interesting segment from RT (on youtube...google it) about the US hypocrisy when it comes to framing public perception as what exactly constitutes fighting for freedom or unruly protest in parliament and how this same coin, clearly has two faces.

You guys really need to get out of the shaded grey areas and political nuances of what constitutes civility and what 'others' may think of our
'behaviour'...that wall was breached by Zaev and the shiptari, the parliamentary rule book was used to wipe arses and now the gloves are off.
Zaev and his shiptar coalition have flicked on the switch of anarchy in Macedonia, first it was the widespread vandalism of Skopje, remember Zaev beaming like one of those carnival clowns with the gaping mouth that you stick a ball in its mouth in the hope that you win some shitty prize...and now it's time to collect the mother of all shitty prizes

As for Sela...the guy has so many enemies in Macedonia that people are queuing up to punch the shit out of him...are we supposed to feel bad about that as well...?

[Phoenix]

...There is a lot of dirty politics going on from all sided here.. but the violence that was seen across the world had only enhanced Zaev and the opposition in the eyes of the world.. let's not forget to mention that stories of Selas bloodied body being dragged and paraded through the corridors of the parliament has made him an overnight hero to many Albanians overnight.. the fact that the Besa deputies walked out before the violence began and that most dui members were largely untouched has increased support for Sela!

Don't be so dramatic about Sela, don't make him out to be some shiptar martyr...he's merely a crook like the rest of the politicians of all persuasions in Macedonia, his big problem is that he's equally despised by both shiptari and Macedonian's, my hunch is that the shiptari despise him even more and that it was his own (shiptar) people that punched the shit out of him in parliament.

As for Macedonian parties requiring a junior shiptar coalition partner to form government, that little convention may have been thrown out the window for future elections...particularly if the Macedonian's awaken from their two decades of slumber...or can break away from their democratic immaturity of following political tribalism so blindly.

[Albo]

Don't be so dramatic about Sela, don't make him out to be some shiptar martyr

I'm not making him a martyr.. I'm simply telling you what the masked bandits and lady bashes have done -

The perception and reaction to Sela being almost killed in social media has elevated him more than he could have done himself !! Besa are being called cowards for walking out without a fight and dui is being seen as somehow being involved in the whole thing..

As for Macedonian parties requiring a junior shiptar coalition partner to form government, that little convention may have been thrown out the window for future elections...

A government without an Albanian junior party never has nor ever will happen... although many Macedonians want this..it will only escalate the situation and Albanians will call for some form of self rule and the crisis will worsen

[mklion]

.

There is a lot of dirty politics going on from all sided here.. but the violence that was seen across the world had only enhanced Zaev and the opposition in the eyes of the world.. let's not forget to mention that stories of Selas bloodied body being dragged and paraded through the corridors of the parliament has made him an overnight hero to many Albanians overnight.. the fact that the Besa deputies walked out before the violence began and that most dui members were largely untouched has increased support for Sela!

LoL. If you rewatch the brawl Sela was cowering in the corner like a big fat pussy. A massive vagina. At least Zaev threw some punches back.

But I'm not surprised. Failbanians talk big shit until they are outnumbered.

[Phoenix]

I'm not making him a martyr.. I'm simply telling you what the masked bandits and lady bashes have done -

The perception and reaction to Sela being almost killed in social media has elevated him more than he could have done himself !! Besa are being called cowards for walking out without a fight and dui is being seen as somehow being involved in the whole thing..



A government without an Albanian junior party never has nor ever will happen... although many Macedonians want this..it will only escalate the situation and Albanians will call for some form of self rule and the crisis will worsen

Aren't BESA akin to uber-shiptari, the most hard-core, the most radical...and when it comes to defending a fellow shiptar from those evil "masked bandits and lady bashes" they're nowhere to be seen...lol

I think you've basically summed up shiptari worldwide...driven only by self-interest and that they'll only jump up and down and cause a shit-storm if they haven't got their fingers in the pie...

[Albo]

Look perception is everything..in Albanian media these are the images that people have seen of Sela.





This is what has created the pro Sela change in opinion...