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-   -   The Real Ethnic Composition of Modern Greece (http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=17)

vicsinad 02-19-2017 04:50 PM

What a great map depicting Macedonia as fyrom. I didn't know fyrom existed in 1769. Regardless, you shouldn't post such crap on this forum.

Amphipolis 02-19-2017 05:23 PM

[QUOTE=Carlin;167008]The map ignores many things, not just the [I]Vlach-Greeks[/I] in Albania. Many settlements/areas and villages seem to have been omitted. Some towns or cities which had a significant Vlach-speaking presence even before 1769 are excluded. The 'dots'/'shaded areas' on the map seem somewhat comical and the author asks us to believe and accept this was the state of Vlach ancestral group in [U]specifically[/U] 1769.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=vicsinad;167009]What a great map depicting Macedonia as fyrom. I didn't know fyrom existed in 1769. Regardless, you shouldn't post such crap on this forum.[/QUOTE]

The map is from 1997 (as seen in the legend) and refers to 1769.
Actually this is far from crap, this is a very serious effort. You can enter the book here, and see many similar maps (about 10 detailed maps per district or era). LOL, sorry it seems there's no chapter on Peloponnese.

[URL="http://www.vlachs.gr/el/news/vlachs-1900"]http://www.vlachs.gr/el/news/vlachs-1900[/URL]


===

Soldier of Macedon 02-19-2017 06:35 PM

[QUOTE=Amphipolis;167010]The map is from 1997 (as seen in the legend) and refers to 1769.
Actually this is far from crap, this is a very serious effort. You can enter the book here, and see many similar maps (about 10 detailed maps per district or era). LOL, sorry it seems there's no chapter on Peloponnese.

[URL="http://www.vlachs.gr/el/news/vlachs-1900"]http://www.vlachs.gr/el/news/vlachs-1900[/URL]


===[/QUOTE]
In future, don't post maps that refer to Macedonia by the idiotic acronym imposed by idiots from Morea. If you can't find an alternative because you're referencing a Greek website then post the statistics only. As for the Vlachs, they were more numerous than that map indicates.

vicsinad 02-19-2017 06:59 PM

[QUOTE=Amphipolis;167010]The map is from 1997 (as seen in the legend) and refers to 1769.
Actually this is far from crap, this is a very serious effort. You can enter the book here, and see many similar maps (about 10 detailed maps per district or era). LOL, sorry it seems there's no chapter on Peloponnese.

[URL="http://www.vlachs.gr/el/news/vlachs-1900"]http://www.vlachs.gr/el/news/vlachs-1900[/URL]


===[/QUOTE]

Obviously it doesn't just refer to 1769, as there was no fyrom terminology in that year. Any map that shows Macedonia as fyrom is crap.

Amphipolis 02-20-2017 01:39 PM

[QUOTE=Soldier of Macedon;167011]In future, don't post maps that refer to Macedonia by the idiotic acronym imposed by idiots from Morea. If you can't find an alternative because you're referencing a Greek website then post the statistics only. As for the Vlachs, they were more numerous than that map indicates.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=vicsinad;167013]Obviously it doesn't just refer to 1769, as there was no fyrom terminology in that year. Any map that shows Macedonia as fyrom is crap.[/QUOTE]

Didn't get who the idiot from Morea is. Well, you'll have to get over it about FYROM and keep from the maps what is useful for you, just as you do with Bulgarian statistics. You and me, we don't care about the Vlachs, but I posted this for Carlin who may have made more than 100 posts about Vlachs.

I would insist that these maps are very interesting. Unfortunately they are all in Greek, in this link you can see English grey scale versions of only half of these maps. Here, you can read the legends but not see the colors.

[URL="http://www.vlachs.gr/el/various-articles/chartografontas-ti-vlachiki-diaspora-sta-valkania"]http://www.vlachs.gr/el/various-articles/chartografontas-ti-vlachiki-diaspora-sta-valkania[/URL]

The maps refer to several periods and districts. They don't have numbers of people, but, for instance, main and full Vlach villages are indicated. In the book there are more (color) maps, including Thessaly and Eastern Macedonia. The book display has fullscreen, zoom and download options.

1769 is the key year of the destruction of Moschopolis which seems to have affected significantly the movements of Vlachs in the recent centuries.


==

Soldier of Macedon 02-20-2017 04:24 PM

[QUOTE=Amphipolis;167021]Didn't get who the idiot from Morea is.[/QUOTE]
Your politicians from the early 90's.
[QUOTE]Well, you'll have to get over it about FYROM.....[/QUOTE]
No, we don't have to get over it, and we won't validate that stupid acronym here.
[QUOTE].....keep from the maps what is useful for you, just as you do with Bulgarian statistics.[/QUOTE]
That's not the same thing. Sometimes it's impossible to avoid older sources due to the value of their content, but in this case you have a modern map which uses the acronym even though the period in question is during Ottoman times. Look harder and find another map or exclude the section which refers to the acronym. Next time you post such a map or links to such maps, they will be deleted. The acronym is an insult to us. Understand that and keep it in my mind when you post anything here.

Carlin 02-20-2017 04:46 PM

[QUOTE=Amphipolis;167010]The map is from 1997 (as seen in the legend) and refers to 1769.
Actually this is far from crap, this is a very serious effort. You can enter the book here, and see many similar maps (about 10 detailed maps per district or era). LOL, sorry it seems there's no chapter on Peloponnese.

[URL="http://www.vlachs.gr/el/news/vlachs-1900"]http://www.vlachs.gr/el/news/vlachs-1900[/URL]


===[/QUOTE]

I don't doubt this is a serious effort, the issue here seems to be is that this is a serious effort of [I]present[/I] (remaining) Vlach villages and culture.

The [I]current[/I] ethnographic situation is then taken and projected back into the past, to specifically 1769 (the destruction of Moschopolis), and we are asked to believe and accept the map as is.

There are many questions that arise, but I will only ask two very specific questions:

1) Why was the "[I]Probable Mijak[/I]" group included in the first map of the Vlach ancestral group in 1769? If the "Mijaks" were included (who are at best a mix of Slavophones and Vlachophones), why not include other similar groups? More importantly, and I ask this seriously, what is the evidence / facts that the "Mijaks" spoke (exclusively) Vlach in 1769?

2) Why were the Vlachs of Acarnania excluded? There are no tiny/small 'dots' of Vlachs in Acarnania. This is interesting because, number 1) does the author know the Vlachs emigrated here [U]after 1769[/U], and number 2) what is the evidence of this emigration to Acarnania after 1769?

If there was even one or two such villages at/prior to 1769, why do we not see small 'dots' in Acarnania?

... And we do know there are Vlachs in Acarnania for the following simple reason:

[I][B]The language of Acarnania's Vlachs (Karagounidhes): recording of language under disappearance[/B][/I]
[url]https://www.didaktorika.gr/eadd/handle/10442/34870?locale=en[/url]

[I]The subject of this thesis is the study of the idiom of Vlach (Karagouniki) language group of Acarnania. Its purpose is the cross-sectional study of the important elements of the Vlach idiom (phonetics-phonology, morphology, syntax, etc.). Additionally, its aim is to record and annotate the vocabulary of this idiom especially in areas where it is of particular interest, namely in the field of onomasiology (anthroponymy and toponymy). The work is based primarily on primary (on the spot) research but also secondary research (reviews) is employed.[/I]

Carlin 02-20-2017 04:47 PM

[QUOTE=tchaiku;166302]How much is the proportion of modern Greek population of Wallachian origin?[/QUOTE]

At least 30%.

Carlin 02-20-2017 04:58 PM

1) [B]Anonymi Descriptio Europae orientalis[/B]. Imperium Constantinopolitanum, Albania, Serbia, Bulgaria, Ruthenia, Ungaria, Polonia, Bohemia. Anno MCCCVIII exarata. Cracoviae, 1916: As per the anonymous traveler of Eastern Europe [B]from the XIV century[/B], it is stated that Vlachs (whom the author calls "Blasi"), are a [B]numerous people living [U]between Macedonia, Achaia and Salonika[/U][/B].

2) [B]Johann Thunmann[/B], Untersuchungen uber die Geschichte der ostlichen europaischen Volker, I. Leipzig, [B]1774[/B]: The author states that Vlachs represent half the population of Thrace, and three quarters of inhabitants of Thessaly and Macedonia combined.

3) Inhabitants of Greece through the eyes of various foreign visitors and travelers. Various regions/areas:

"The once glorious Athens is so desolate that it seems incredible that it was once glorious. I, for one, did not see anywhere a more terrible place. Wilderness, swamps...." »DAramon, French ambassador.

"The population of Samos is Turkish." Ruy Gonzales de Clavijo, envoy of the king of Castile, Henry III, the court of Tamerlane.

"Eleusis is now a poor village with 1,200 inhabitants, mostly Albanians." - John Fulleylove MClymont JA, 1902.

[B]"The Albanians from Arcadia are three times more numerous than the Turks." » (The present state of the Morea called Peloponesus, Bernard Randolph, an English traveler, London, [U]1686[/U]).[/B]

"Kos is inhabited by Turks." (Pierre Belon, a French physician and botanist, 1546.)

"Mykonos.. It was almost uninhabited." Thevenot (1655).

Amphipolis 02-20-2017 05:20 PM

For Akarnania you'll have to look at the map of page 12. There are different colors depending on the era of arrival. For some towns and villages there are exact dates on the map.

For details you'll have to find his articles. His books are attractive and awarded but as far as I can see this guy (Koukoudis) as a scientist is so-so.

By the way, are you writing a PhD on Vlachs?

Amphipolis 02-21-2017 05:40 AM

[QUOTE=tchaiku;166302]How much is the proportion of modern Greek population of Wallachian origin?[/QUOTE]

In the 1928 and 1951 censuses they are numbered as 0,3% and 0,5% respectively based on mother language. In 1928 they are more frequent in Epirus (1,7%) and Macedonia (1,0%).

tchaiku 02-21-2017 10:56 AM

A Greco-Albanian Epirot has revealed to me his Aromanian origin. Many Northern Epirots (those in Albania) are aware of Arvanites and neo-hellenism unlike the Greeks in Greece.
I did speak to an Arvanite some months ago in Albanian and I was told that 1/5 of Greeks are in reality Arvanites.

Amphipolis 02-21-2017 12:24 PM

The first census that records language (home language) is in 1870. Total population is 1,458,000 people. Based on language: Greek 95%, Albanian 2,6%, Vlach 0,8%. At the time Greece is what now is South Greece (Thessaly & Crete are not yet included).


==

tchaiku 02-22-2017 07:55 AM

However I disagree, I do not believe that 1/5 of Greeks are Arvanites more like 10%.


Johann Georg von Hahn (father of “albanology”) concludes the total number of 173.000 Arbanites in Greece in 1854 (Albaneische Studien,1854).
(total population of Greece 1.096.810)
After Hahn’s own corrections he finally comes to the number of 158.000.(he has done some mistakes about Fokis and Spercheios areas)

Alfred Philipsson, after touring Peloponese in 1889 ,counted 90.253 Arbanites in this area (730.000 total) .(9.5%)
As for the total number he considers it was 224.000 in a total of 2.187.208 (that’s 10%) (zur ethnographic des Peloponnes,pettersmans mittelingen,1890)

[IMG]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6c/Greekhistory.GIF[/IMG]

Amphipolis 02-22-2017 08:06 AM

That's interesting. I haven't heard of any of these before, but I suspect they did it in the same way as Lithoxoou. They used the detailed census data, and for the villages or small towns they considered as Arvanite they counted everybody in.

Maps and details here:
[URL="http://www.lithoksou.net/p/plithysmos-kai-xoria-ton-arbaniton-1879-%E2%80%93-1907-2005"]http://www.lithoksou.net/p/plithysmos-kai-xoria-ton-arbaniton-1879-%E2%80%93-1907-2005[/URL]

With this method, Lithoxoou estimates them as 10,6% in 1879 and 9% in 1907 (the area of Greece had changed in between).


====

Carlin 03-01-2017 12:51 AM

The Slavic Elements in the Cretan Vocabulary (in Polish; English Summary)
[url]http://www.academia.edu/6878626/The_Slavic_Elements_in_the_Cretan_Vocabulary_in_Polish_English_Summary_[/url]

tchaiku 03-11-2017 04:12 AM

[QUOTE=Amphipolis;167010]The map is from 1997 (as seen in the legend) and refers to 1769.
Actually this is far from crap, this is a very serious effort. You can enter the book here, and see many similar maps (about 10 detailed maps per district or era). LOL, sorry it seems there's no chapter on Peloponnese.

[URL="http://www.vlachs.gr/el/news/vlachs-1900"]http://www.vlachs.gr/el/news/vlachs-1900[/URL]


===[/QUOTE]

I was searching in Wikipedia and I found out this map.

[IMG]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/09/ShepherdByzempire1265.jpg[/IMG]

Thessaly was a Wallachian state as early as 13th century.

tchaiku 03-11-2017 02:14 PM

Aromanians another category ( Vlachs) are those who are known today as "Greek minority" in Albania. It is historical fact that the ancestors of the "minorities" of today were farmers coming from the Pindos mountains, to work on southern areas. Zones of them have come to the Middle Ages and during the time that the new name was different "Wallachia" (For more you can read the "History of the Balkans" by Georges Castellan) So arrivals as farmers in areas Vurgu, Delvina, Dropullit etc. were Greek-Vlach. Given the influence of the church and especially in the Greek policies, we can understand very well why the so-called "Greek minority" is called such way. So "Greek minority" is not a Greek minority.

tchaiku 03-12-2017 09:05 AM

[QUOTE=tchaiku;167311] the new name was different "Wallachia" (For more you can read the "History of the Balkans" by Georges Castellan) [/QUOTE]

Thessalian Vlachia was apparently also known as "Vlachia in Hellas" (ἐν Ἑλλάδι Βλαχία), as well as "Great Vlachia" (Μεγάλη Βλαχία), to distinguish it from other Vlach-inhabited areas, "Upper Vlachia" in Epirus, and a [B]"Little Vlachia"[/B] in Aetolia-Acarnania
Perhaps that is what they are talking about?

More on Great Vlachia:

[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Vlachia[/url]


The contemporary Byzantine historian Niketas Choniates however distinguishes "Great Vlachia" as a district near Meteora.[3] "Vlachia", "Great Vlachia", and the other variants began to fall out of use for Thessaly at the turn of the 14th century, and with the emergence of Wallachia north of the Danube, from the 15th century the name was reserved for it.

After the conquest of large parts of the Byzantine Empire in the mid-1340s, the Serbian ruler Stefan Dushan was crowned emperor in 1346, founding the Serbian Empire.[12] In 1347–1348 he and his general Preljub extended Serbian control over Epirus and Thessaly.[13] Afterwards, Stefan Dushan claimed the titles, in Latin, of imperator Raxie et Romanie, dispotus Lartae et Blachie comes ("Emperor of Rascia and Romania [Byzantine Empire], Despot of Arta and Count of Vlachia").

Carlin 03-15-2017 08:24 PM

[QUOTE=tchaiku;167311]Aromanians another category ( Vlachs) are those who are known today as "Greek minority" in Albania. It is historical fact that the ancestors of the "minorities" of today were farmers coming from the Pindos mountains, to work on southern areas. Zones of them have come to the Middle Ages and during the time that the new name was different "Wallachia" (For more you can read the "History of the Balkans" by Georges Castellan) So arrivals as farmers in areas Vurgu, Delvina, Dropullit etc. were Greek-Vlach. Given the influence of the church and especially in the Greek policies, we can understand very well why the so-called "Greek minority" is called such way. So "Greek minority" is not a Greek minority.

[IMG]https://www.clio.fr/images/vignettes/e__internet_intranet_sfs_CLIO_PHOTOLISTEcastellan_500_.jpg[/IMG]

The grammar errors are from Google Translate I did not bother reconstructioning the paragraph entirely.[/QUOTE]

What is the title of this article and would you be able to provide source/link? Thanks.

tchaiku 03-16-2017 08:52 AM

[QUOTE=Carlin;167346]What is the title of this article and would you be able to provide source/link? Thanks.[/QUOTE]

I found this on an Albanian forum the post were written as early as 2003, for more information you can find in the book of the author mentioned above.

tchaiku 03-16-2017 09:19 AM

[url]https://www.amazon.com/History-Balkans-Mohammed-Conqueror-Stalin/dp/0880332220[/url]
[url]https://www.amazon.com/History-Romanians-Georges-Castellan/dp/0880331542[/url]

Carlin 03-17-2017 07:23 PM

Thanks.




Quote from Konstantinos Koumas (1777-1836), himself probably of Vlach extraction:

[I]If the extraordinary hero of Macedonia succeeded in spreading the Greek language throughout the whole of the East, even as far as India, [B]in a period of only ten years[/B], it scarcely puts a strain on our credulity to imagine that [B]the Romans might have accomplished the same thing![/B] Indeed, it seems but perfectly natural that over eight centuries the Latin language should also have taken root in precisely those places where Latin colonies were planted - from England to the Euphrates and from the Elbe to the deserts of Africa. For almost six centuries before the fall of Rome, the whole of what is now European Turkey was filled with Roman armies, Roman prefects, Roman lords and magnates. [B]The result of such continuous contact between the Romans and their subject peoples was that [U]the whole peoples like the Macedonians, Thessalians, and Greeks not only learned the language of their masters[/U] but in many cases completely forgot their own mother tongue.[/B]

[/I]

tchaiku 03-18-2017 11:34 AM

Some conclusion from earlier posts in here:
-The Vlachs-Greeks were speaking the Greek lanaguage of Byzantine Empire (Romania) bilingualy with their native language.

- They migrated later than Albanians.
[url]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Arbanon[/url]
From Pindos mountains.

-It is possible that they migrated in Epirus after the Slavs seeing the slavic toponyms.

Carlin 03-19-2017 10:23 PM

[URL=http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/Carlin177/media/20170319_224740_zpshsgdoect.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w416/Carlin177/20170319_224740_zpshsgdoect.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
[SIZE="3"]
[I].... Fanis Michalopoulos has given the answer, who, referring to the visit of Cosmas of Aetolia to Aspropotamos and Agrafa, stresses that "the language here (was) Vlach in most villages"[/SIZE][/I]

Carlin 03-19-2017 10:34 PM

- Thessaly used to be called 'Great Vlachia' or 'Megali Vlachia', with the capital Larissa.
- The Chronicle of Epirus refers to 'Great Vlachia' as 'Greco-Vlachia'.
- Can provide detailed translation upon request.

[URL=http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/Carlin177/media/20161127_171648_zpsuqkgkagt.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w416/Carlin177/20161127_171648_zpsuqkgkagt.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

[URL=http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/Carlin177/media/20161127_171725_zpsosfbt9nb.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w416/Carlin177/20161127_171725_zpsosfbt9nb.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

[URL=http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/Carlin177/media/20161128_220422_zpsr0lytlhn.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w416/Carlin177/20161128_220422_zpsr0lytlhn.jpg[/IMG][/URL]



[URL=http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/Carlin177/media/311_zpsp4redwpz.png.html][IMG]http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w416/Carlin177/311_zpsp4redwpz.png[/IMG][/URL]


[URL=http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/Carlin177/media/GolemaVlahia_zpsfrxpbcam.png.html][IMG]http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w416/Carlin177/GolemaVlahia_zpsfrxpbcam.png[/IMG][/URL]
[URL=http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/Carlin177/media/GolemaVlahia1_zpsiofk0mvp.png.html][IMG]http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w416/Carlin177/GolemaVlahia1_zpsiofk0mvp.png[/IMG][/URL]
[URL=http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/Carlin177/media/GolemaVlahia2_zpsxn9bko4p.png.html][IMG]http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w416/Carlin177/GolemaVlahia2_zpsxn9bko4p.png[/IMG][/URL]

Carlin 03-19-2017 11:12 PM

[URL=http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/Carlin177/media/Title_zpsrhgy4ygs.png.html][IMG]http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w416/Carlin177/Title_zpsrhgy4ygs.png[/IMG][/URL]
[URL=http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/Carlin177/media/FirstPage_zpse79sbu9r.png.html][IMG]http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w416/Carlin177/FirstPage_zpse79sbu9r.png[/IMG][/URL]
[URL=http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/Carlin177/media/AtticaBoeotiaAndPhthiotisBalta_zpsgbe3wphk.png.html][IMG]http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w416/Carlin177/AtticaBoeotiaAndPhthiotisBalta_zpsgbe3wphk.png[/IMG][/URL]
[URL=http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/Carlin177/media/Map_zpsoxeoc1lf.png.html][IMG]http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w416/Carlin177/Map_zpsoxeoc1lf.png[/IMG][/URL]
[URL=http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/Carlin177/media/Migrations_zpsmlvfo5cr.png.html][IMG]http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w416/Carlin177/Migrations_zpsmlvfo5cr.png[/IMG][/URL]
[URL=http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/Carlin177/media/MigrationsCont_zpscfazxbsc.png.html][IMG]http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w416/Carlin177/MigrationsCont_zpscfazxbsc.png[/IMG][/URL]

Carlin 03-26-2017 08:56 AM

1) The English Folk-Play, E. K. Chambers.

Page 229:

"[B]In Epirus, where the inhabitants are mainly Hellenized Vlachs[/B], there is a spring revival ceremony without a combat."

[url]https://books.google.ca/books?id=rdt9CgAAQBAJ&pg=PT174&lpg=PT174&dq=the+english+folk-play+vlachs+epirus&source=bl&ots=OcYSLZrILX&sig=lbycrhdsoqPQotsqm3hf1TE5hHY&hl=fr&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwib0rDmpvTSAhWP3oMKHcIYAEwQ6AEIGjAA#v=onepage&q=the%20english%20folk-play%20vlachs%20epirus&f=false[/url]

[url]https://archive.org/stream/englishfolkplay027958mbp#page/n243/mode/2up[/url]

2) Euboea or Evia

"[B]The ethnic Greek population is descended from Arvanites and Vlachs[/B], who have lived in Euboea since the early Middle Ages."

[url]http://www.landscapes.gr/evia.html[/url]

Carlin 04-01-2017 10:05 PM

This Greek article talks about the large waves of migrations of Vlachs to Asia Minor. There were mass migrations of Epirote Vlach settlements which began in the 17th, continued in the 18th century and peaked in the 19th century.

[url]http://mikrasiatis.gr/%CE%BC%CE%B5%CF%84%CE%B1%CE%BA%CE%B9%CE%BD%CE%AE%CF%83%CE%B5%CE%B9%CF%82-%CE%B2%CE%BB%CE%AC%CF%87%CF%89%CE%BD-%CF%83%CF%84%CE%B7-%CE%BC%CE%B9%CE%BA%CF%81%CE%AC-%CE%B1%CF%83%CE%AF%CE%B1/[/url]

Carlin 04-01-2017 11:19 PM

Христос (Кристе) Дагович = Хаджи Христо Българинът = Χατζηχρήστος Βούλγαρης

Date of birth: 1783.

Христос (Кристе) Дагович was a revolutionary, commander during the Greek War of Independence (1821 – 1832), who thanks to his achievements and contributions for the independence and freedom of Greece received a rank of General of Greek army, and later on actively participated in building Greece.

According to testimonies, he was leading a unit of 'Bulgarians' during the war. "This squad carried huge proven exploits, one of which is the notorious feat in Dervenaki (Дервенакија) on 26 and 27 July 1822" wrote a Greek historian. He was accepted warmly by the leaders of the uprising Theodoros Kolokotoronis and Alexander Ypsilanti.

[url]https://bg.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A5%D0%B0%D0%B4%D0%B6%D0%B8_%D0%A5%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%D0%BE_%D0%91%D1%8A%D0%BB%D0%B3%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BD[/url]
[url]https://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CE%A7%CE%B1%CF%84%CE%B6%CE%B7%CF%87%CF%81%CE%AE%CF%83%CF%84%CE%BF%CF%82_%CE%92%CE%BF%CF%8D%CE%BB%CE%B3%CE%B1%CF%81%CE%B7%CF%82[/url]

Битка кај Дервенакија
[url]https://mk.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%91%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%BA%D0%B0_%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%98_%D0%94%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B2%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B0%D0%BA%D0%B8%D1%98%D0%B0[/url]

Amphipolis 04-02-2017 01:49 PM

[QUOTE=Carlin;167620]This Greek article talks about the large waves of migrations of Vlachs to Asia Minor. There were mass migrations of Epirote Vlach settlements which began in the 17th, continued in the 18th century and peaked in the 19th century. [/QUOTE]

Actually, if one reads it he realizes that:

(a) This is not an article. It's a note by a theology student in a free forum.

(b) Unfortunately, the only large thing there, is the reference of Vlachs and Asia Minor in the title, not in the content of the text.

Carlin 04-02-2017 02:29 PM

[QUOTE=Amphipolis;167636]Actually, if one reads it he realizes that:

(a) This is not an article. It's a note by a theology student in a free forum.

(b) Unfortunately, the only large thing there, is the reference of Vlachs and Asia Minor in the title, not in the content of the text.[/QUOTE]

Google Translation -

[I][SIZE="3"]Transportation Vlachs in Asia Minor[/SIZE][/I]

[I]Manolis Kontosteliou

One of the [B][U]largest[/U] population movements[/B] happened in Greece was the [B][U]mass migration[/U] of Epirus Vlach settlements[/B] which began the 17th, continued in the 18th century and peaked in the 19th century. Migratory waves initially focused mainly on the Danube and then the Ottoman hinterland.

The main reasons that prompted the residents of Epirus in search of a better life were:

a) The revolutionary movements of 1600 and 1611 with the participation of Christians in Epirus and Thessaly in response to the call of Bishop Dionysios the Philosopher

b) The gradual limitation of the number of villages falling under privileged membership status

c) The [B][U]overpopulation[/U] of mountain communities[/B] and

d) unknown factors like frequent epidemics and natural disasters.

... seek to examine the largely unknown relocation Vlachs in Asia Minor, ..... references and researchers on the topic.[/I]

Carlin 04-02-2017 07:17 PM

Historical Documents: Albanians (and other peoples) in various Greek Islands.

Presence of Albanians located in the northeastern Aegean islands (Samos, Psara) and some islands of the Cyclades (Andros, Ios, Kea, Kythnos). Just a few random examples (Google Translation):

Andros:

"The inhabitants are estimated at 6000. There is an east coast town and 60 villages. Highlights are the sandpit and the Arna, [B]inhabited by Arvanites[/B], one thousand two hundred souls." From the diary of the French traveler Thevenot (1655). [B]The Albanian settlement on Andros[/B] became Frankish in the first quarter of the 15th century. Second settlement was around the late 15th century."

The vicar general of Greece in 1828 wrote: "850 families in the northwestern part of Andros with [B]Albanian[/B] dialect and customs." (AF 20, 21 March 1828, page 83).

Ios:

"Throughout the island there is only a small town on a hillside. The inhabitants are [B]ethnic Albanians[/B] ...." (Francois Richard, 1650).

Samos:

Among the settlers of Samos included many Albanians. Albanians Samos reported including one French missionarios which an anonymous report in the early 18 th century, he notes, that lived mostly in the mountains of the island, engaged in farming. (LA Martin: «Lettres edifiantes et curieuses concernan lAsie, lAfrique et lAmerique avec quelques relations nouvelles des missions et des notes geographiques et historiques», Vol. 1, Paris, pp. 131, Paris, 1838. C Guerin, who came into the middle of the next century, the island, notes that [B]residents Arvanites although they spoke good Greek, preserved but some of their own words[/B]).

Carlin 04-05-2017 11:55 PM

Βλαχοχώρια της Εύβοιας, τόσο στην κεντρική και στη βόρεια Εύβοια, όσο και στην περιοχή Αλιβερίου-Κύμης, αποβλαχισμένα στις αρχές του 19ου αιώνα.

Vlach settlements in Euboea, both in the central and northern Euboea and in Kymi-Aliveri*, lost the (Vlach) language in the early 19th century.

* - Kymi-Aliveri
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kymi-Aliveri[/url]

tchaiku 04-11-2017 06:08 AM

In 1204 the Franks of the Fourth Crusade and the Venetians sacked Constantinople and began to divide up the provinces of the Byzantine Empire among themselves. A period of chaos ensued, during which several small principalities were established in the southwest Balkans. The only one which upheld the Greek tradition was that of the Angeli. the rulers of Epirus from 1206 to 1260, and they had to contend with the Albanian principality of Demetrios and Ghin, the Serbian principality of the Nemanja and Uros families, the kingdom of Thessalonica, and the rival Byzantine principality of Nicaea, quite apart from raids delivered from the west on the coast of Epirus. It was in this period that the flow of immigrants from the northwestern area began . It became a flood in the fourteenth century. They went as mercenaries, raiders and migrants. The great majority of them were speakers of Albanian, but others joined the movement. When they wanted to leave Thessaly and go elsewhere, many others appeared with their wives and children ("multicum uxoribus et filiis") and their combined forces proceeded to wreck other parts of Thessaly. John Cantacuzenus 1.495 described their raids on the west side of the peninsula in 1335: "The Albanoi who inhabit the area of Balagrita [Berat] and Kanina [inland of Valona], being adaptable to change and by nature revolutionary, ravaged and plundered … and oppressed the towns there with their brigandage and open raids".
[B]The Byzantine rulers had recourse to two methods of treating these raiders The Emperor Andronicus III gave land to 12,000 Vlach-speaking raiders who submitted to him in Thessaly. [/B]‘The Great Domestic', John Cantacuzenus, carried out a campaign against the Albanian-speaking tribes in 1335. "As the Albanians inhabited great mountain ranges which were difficult of access and had many retreats and hiding-places, they could not easily be injured by the cavalry." For this reason, light armed infantry and archers were recruited in Asia and took part in the campaign (Cantacuzenus 1.495). Even so the Albanians were not destroyed, for they withdrew into the mountains and beat off their attackers from above. However, the Emperor advanced from Thessaly to Dyrrachium and took spoil to the amount of 300,000 cattle, 5,000 horses and 1,200,000 sheep. But the Albanian raids continued and Acarnania was laid waste, in 1341 the Emperor attacked the offending Albanians "around Pogoniane and Libisda" (Lidizda), i.e. in the central part of northern Epirus; (20) and then in 1355 he campaigned from Thessaly as far south as Aetolia and Acarnania and was killed in action (Cantacuzenus 3.319). These campaigns did not stop the flood. Albanians were serving as mercenaries in the Peloponnese c. 1350, and they and their families were given land there to cultivate.
In 1358 the Albanians overran Epirus, Acarnania and Aetolia, and established two principalities under their leaders, John Spatas (shpate in Albanian meaning a sword) and Peter Leosas (lios in Albanian meaning a pockmark), Naupactus fell into their control in 1378. The cities which held out against them, especially loannina and Arta, were ravaged by a series of plagues, and Thomas, the Serbian Despot of loannina, saved himself at first by making marriage alliances with the two Albanian leaders. In the Greek account of the Albanian advance under Peter Leosas we learn that he was accompanied by "Mazarakii and Malakasei of his own race" (Epeirotica 2.220; cf. 222 f.), (21) While Mazaraki is in central Epirus by the river Kalamas, Malakasa is the coastal plain of central Albania farther north and the words ‘of his own race' were used to distinguish the Albanian-speaking Malakasaei from the Vlach-speaking Malakasii. It is clear that Thomas feared the Albanians above all. Whereas he mutilated the Bulgars and the Vlachs, he allowed most of his Albanian prisoners to be ransomed. Atrocities were committed no doubt by both sides, and Thomas came to be called Albanitoktonos (Albanian-killer; Epeirotica 2.225). In 1380 Thomas brought in the Turks as allies and passed to the offensive, but he did not advance farther than the basin of the upper Kalamas, where he took Vela (by Vrondismeni), Boursina (Vrousina), and Kretzounista (Dhespotikon) (21). The Albanians and in particular the Mazarakii of the Kalamas valley held firm against him. In 1385 he was assassinated by some of his own bodyguards (Epeirotica 2.230).
[B]Other bands of Albanians and Vlachs invaded the Catalan principality of Boeotia and Attica, and a great many Albanians settled there as peasant-farmers in 1368 and later years. [/B]Around the end of that century a migrating group of 10,000 Albanians with their families and their animals came from pastures in central Greece to the Isthmus of Corinth and sought entry to the Peloponnese. This was granted by Theodore, who settled them within his own DOMAINS, where he used them as tough soldiers and "expert cultivators" (Manuel II, Funeral Speech, p. 40). Albanians and others were invited in 1402 to settle on uncultivated but cultivable lands in Euboea, if they were willing to serve as soldiers in defence of the island and work the soil. The proclamation of the Venetian rulers was extended to "quilibet Albanensis vel alia gens qui non sint no&tri subditi, qui cum equis volent venire et venient ad habitandum’ (23). By the middle of the fifteenth century the Albanians in the Peloponnese were so numerous that they tried to seize control, led first by one Peter the Lame, and then by a Greek, a member of the Cantacuzenus family, but their attempt failed.
The penetration of the Greek mainland which we have described occurred during the hundred or more years after 1325. The opportunity arose through the decline and disruption of the Byzantine Empire and the wars which followed between the various small principalities of Greeks, Serbs, Catalans, Venetians and others. One of the pressures which set the Albanians and others in motion came from the expanding power of the Serbs which reached its peak under the rule of Stephen Dusan (1331-1355), who subjugated Epirus and Acarnania. A contributory factor seems to have been overpopulation among the Albanians (24) - always a prolific people and underpopulation in mainland Greece as a result of internal collapse and foreign intervention.[B] The strongest single group of invaders was that of the Vlachs which pressed down into Thessaly and opened the way there for the Albanians. But the most numerous by far were the Albanian-speakers, and their main line of invasion and penetration was down the western side of northern and central Greece.[/B]
Once in possession of most of north-western Greece, the Albanians opened the way for other immigrants. [B]Offshoots of Albanians and Vlachs entered Boeotia, Attica and Euboea, having probably come from summer pastures on Mt Parnassus and from southern Aetolia; and other groups of Albanians forced an entry or gained an invitation of entry into the Peloponnese, sometimes crossing over the western part of the Gulf of Corinth and sometimes coming to the Isthmus of Corinth. When 10,000 Albanians came to the Isthmus of Corinth, they brought not only their families but also their flocks of animals.[/B] The Albanians in the Peloponnese took their herds in the winter to the coastal plain of Elis, “which was open to the sun, near the sea, had good grazing and was deserted by men (i.e. by the Greeks)"; and these herds consisted of "very many herds of horses, very many of cattle, most of sheep and most of pig"(29). [B]Such Albanians as these—and they were evidently the majority - were described by Laonicus Chalcocondylas (406) as follows: "This race are all nomads, and do not make their stay for long in any one place" [/B]they were, then, transhumant pastoralists without fixed abodes or villages. But there were many others who wanted to cultivate the land and were given land by the Venetians and the Greeks, because they were such hard-working and expert cultivators. W[B]hen Manuel Cantacuzenus, Despot of Mistra in the Peloponnese, took over "all Albania," he deported two groups of Albanians and settled them, one near Constantinople and the other in the Peloponnese, the latter "a great number" (30). The Albanians were acceptable to the Greek, Catalan or Venetian overlords, as the case might be, because they were capable of reviving agriculture in derelict areas.[/B]
In the eyes of the Greeks/ the Albanians and those associated with them were fine hunters, (31) excellent horsemen and redoubtable warriors. As has been said by Joseph Campbell, "by and large hunting people are warrior people; and not only that, but many are exhilarated by battle and turn warfare into exercises in bravura"(32). These were the ancestors of the Souliote warriors, whom Byron admired so much in the Greek War of Independence. In the fourteenth century they were feared and hated in northern Greece, but they were hired as mercenaries or attracted as settlers by the rulers of the principalities in the Peloponnese and central Greece and Thessaly. The most warlike of the Albanians were those described by the Greeks as living in great mountainous areas, that is those engaged in pastoralism with the transhumance of sheep. They were certainly illiterate, but they were tightly organised in tribal units with a patriarchal system of leadership. The leaders were evidently very capable men, possessing wide powers over their followers, and 'John the Sword', 'Peter the Pockmark' and 'Peter the Lame' led very large armies of Albanian warriors with success. When they were hired as mercenaries, they came not as individuals but as organised bands, sometimes accompanied by their families and animals. The hope of their employers was that the Albanians would "come with their horses" and fulfil their obligations "to maintain their horses, garrison the forts and obey orders (34)". It was these cavalrymen, with their entourage, who were the leaders. The rank and file fought on foot.
With the capture of Ioannina by the Turks in 1430. The role of the Albanians changed very little. The Albanians of Kruje, Mati and Dibra, i.e. of the areas north of the Shkumbi river, fought heroically against the Turks until the death of their leader, Skanderbeg, in 1467 and indeed after it, but unavailingly. The Albanians of the Peloponnese participated in a rising against the Turks in 1459. [B]On the other hand the Turks were soon employing the Albanians as mercenaries and encouraging them to settle in the devastated areas not only of the Greek mainland but also in some of the Aegean islands. So the process of infiltration and expansion continued under Turkish rule. By 1687, for instance, almost all the population of Euboea was Albanian, (35) the Greeks having fled in 1471.[/B]
Piracy had led to impoverishment and depopulation in the islands during the late Byzantine period, and Albanians moved in as occasion arose. Thus they were brought to Andros (sic Salamis?) in the Saronic Gulf c. 1600 to cultivate the land; they went from Troezen to Hydra in 1580, and other settlers arrived from Parga, Souli, Valona, Euboea and Cythnos in the seventeenth century. Other groups went to Samos, Psara and Casos, many of the settlers being from western Epirus, Euboea and Thessaly. Yet other groups entered Andros, Ios, Cythnos and Ceos among the Cyclades and Scopelos in the Northern Sporades. They became excellent seamen, winning distinction in the Greek War of Independence and raising Hydra and Spetsae to a leading position in the carrying trade of the Aegean basin. Groups of soldiers were employed far afield: in Cyprus, for instance, in Byzantine times, and for some 250 years in Crete during the Turkish period.

tchaiku 04-11-2017 09:10 AM

(20) For descriptions of these places see Epirus, pp. 268 and 90.

(21) This work, sometimes called The Chronicle of Epirus, is published in the CSHB.

(22) For these places and their strategic importance see Epirus, p. 194 (Vela); p 186 (Vrousina); pp. 197 f. and 695 (Dhespotikon); with maps 7 and 18.

(23) C. N. Sathas, Documents inedits relatifs a l'histoire grecque au Moyen Age 2, p. 79 (no. 298) .

(24) Ducas 23, 8 (CSHB) called them "a race beyond number."

(25) E Kirsten (loc. cit , note 18) is of this opinion, n. 110, "die Geschichte der albanischen Landnahme in Aetolien, Akarnanien, dann bei Korinth . . . zeigt, dass die Bewegung auf der Westseite Griechenlands verlief und Mittel-griechenland von SW her erreichte."

(26) Another indication is provided by the distribution of Slavonic place-names. These were (before the rule of Metaxas) frequent in the canton of loannina, rare in that of Arta, and rarer still in that of Preveza, being displaced predominantly by Albanian place-names such as Toskesi and Ljapokhori. See Epirus. p. 27, n. 2.

(27) See Epirus, p 195.

(28) For these places see Epirus, p. 20, map 1, and p. 31, where I suggested that Zagorie included at one time the valley of the middle Aous from Permet to Konitsa and so linked up with Zagori. This may have been so in 1399.

(29) The document is cited in Sp. Lambros, Palaiologeia kai Peloponesiaka 3, p. 195.

(30) C. N. Sathas (op, cit., note 23) 9, p. 144.

(31) So described in a letter of Luc Notaras in Sp. Lambros, Onomatologia tes Attikes, p. 13.

(32) Joseph Campbell, Myths to Live by (New York, 1972) p. 176.

(33) Sathas (op, cit,, note 23) 9, p. 144; Ducas 45.12 (CSHB).

(34) Sathas (op. cit., note 23) 2, p. 79, qui cum equis volent venire; and Ljubic, Listine 10 no. 467, p 445, ut equitent et stent in castris apud te ad obedentiam tuam.

(35) So B. Randolph, an early traveller, cited by F W. Hasluck in "Albanian Settlements in the Aegean Islands,' BSA 15 (1908-9). I am indebted to this article in what follows.

Carlin 04-11-2017 11:29 AM

"So interwoven were the identities of [I]Greek[/I] and [I]Koutsovlach[/I] that in countries outside Greece [B]their neighbours hardly knew to which of the two peoples the foreign immigrants belonged[/B]. [B]Even their descendants often did not know whether their forefathers had been [I]Greek[/I] or [I]Koutsovlach[/I][/B]."

[url]http://vlahofonoi.blogspot.ca/2014/02/the-emigration-of-macedonians-to-lands.html?m=1[/url]

Carlin 04-11-2017 03:09 PM

"[B]Thus in 826 invaders from Africa seized the island of Aegina[/B], so close to Athens, and killed the husband of S. Athanasia, whose parents had forced her into marriage only sixteen days before. News of the proximity of the Moslems must have caused consternation in Athens, for their [B]raid had been sufficient to leave Aegina "deserted and forgotten."[/B] In the year 826-7, when Crete and Sicily fell to the Moslems, [B]they also invaded Aetolia and landed in force on the island of Lesbos, where their sinister memory long persisted[/B]."

tchaiku 04-12-2017 01:03 AM

- Thessaly used to be called 'Great Vlachia' or 'Megali Vlachia', with the capital [B]Larissa[/B].
- The Chronicle of Epirus refers to 'Great Vlachia' as 'Greco-Vlachia'.
- 'Great Vlachia' was a strong state during the decades of its ruler "Jovan I" (as written in Serbian), which was between 1258 and 1296.
- This Vlach state was under frequent attacks from Serbian rulers, as even the archbishop Danilo* noted - how king Milutin went with his army in order to conquer and plunder "drzhavu zemlye Vlahiotske".
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Vlachia[/url]

tchaiku 04-12-2017 02:26 AM

[B][I][COLOR="DarkRed"]SLAVS IN MIDDLE AGES
[/COLOR]
[/I]
Isidore of Seville.
[IMG]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/79/Isidor_von_Sevilla.jpeg/640px-Isidor_von_Sevilla.jpeg[/IMG]
[/B]1) A little before 650 AD, Isidore of Seville wrote that during the first years of emperor Herakleios's reign (ca. 614 AD) [B][I]"Sclavi Graeciam Romanis tulerunt" [/I][/B]("The Slavs have taken Greece from the Romans").

2) The writer of the "Miracles of Saint Demetrius" described 7th century[B] Thessaloniki as "a Roman island in a slavic sea"[/B].

3) Willibald wrotein his biography that when he was going to Jerusalem from Sicily in 723 AD his ship stopped [B][I]"ad urbem Manafasiam in Sclavenia terra"[/I][/B] ("in the city of Monemvasia in the land of Sclavenia").

4) Byzantine anonymous epitomizer of Strabo wrote:

[B][I]«Καὶ νῦν δὲ πᾶσαν Ἤπειρον καὶ Ἑλλάδα σχεδὸν καὶ Πελοπόννησον καὶ Μακεδονίαν Σκύθαι Σκλάβοι νέμονται»[/I]

"And now most of Epirus and Hellas and Peloponnesus and Macedonia are inhabited by 'Scythian' (=uncivilized) Slavs" [/B]

Vgl. Müller, Geographi Graeci Minores II S. 574.

And for Western Peloponnese in particular:

[B][I]«Νῦν δὲ οὐδὲ ὄνομά ἐστι Πισατῶν καὶ Καυκώνων καὶ Πυλίων· ἅπαντα γὰρ ταῦτα Σκύθαι νέμονται»[/I]
[/B]

s. Müller, Geogr. Graeci Minores II S. 583.

[B]"And now not even the names of the Pisatans, the Caucones or the Pylians survive. All these regions are inhabited by 'Scythians'"
[/B]

5) The Emperor Contantine VI Porphyrogennetos in the «Περί Θεμάτων» wrote about the Peloponnese that:

[B][I]«Ἐσθλαβώθη δὲ πᾶσα ἡ χώρα καὶ γέγονε βάρβαρος, ὅτε ὁ λοιμικὸς θάνατος πᾶσαν ἐβόσκετο τὴν οἰκουμένην, ὁπηνίκα Κωνσταντῖνος ὁ τῆς κοπρίας ἐπώνυμος σκῆπτρα τῆς τῶν Ῥωμαίων διεῖπεν ἀρχῆς. [/I]
[/B]
De thematibus II (ed. Bonn. 53, 18)

[B]"The entire country [of Peloponnese] has been colonized by Slavs and became barbarian, when the deadly plague had stroke the empire, that is when Contantine V the "Copronymos" was emperor of the Romans".
[/B]

Right after he had wrote that he remembered the Peloponnesian patrician Niketas Rendakios whom the people of Constantinople had described as a "cunning Slavic face" («γαρασδοειδής όψις εσθλαβωμένη»). The term «γαρασδοειδής» is an impromptu utilization of the slavic word gorazd = "valiant, clever", which here is used with the derogatory sense of "cunning, foxy". The Slavist Phaidon Malingoudis has explained the surname Rendakios also as a slavic nickname for "administrator" (he derives it from the proto-slavic verb ręditi (ę = a proto-slavic nasalised vowel pronounced as /en/ that survives in Polish) which means to "determine, administer, set".

6) In the late 11th century, the Patriarch Nicholas Grammatikos describes the Slavic colonization of the Peloponnese in a letter to emperor Alexios Komnenos with the words:

[B][I]«Έπί διακοσίοις δεκαοκτώ χρόνοις όλοις κατεσχόντων την Πελοπόννησον, και της Ρωμαϊκής αρχής αποτεμομένων, ως μηδέ πόδα βαλείν όλως δύνασθαι εν αυτή Ρωμαίον άνδρα»[/I]

"For 218 years that the Slavs have held Peloponnesus cut off from the Roman empire so that no Roman could set his foot in the region"[/B]

7) When Emperor Michael Palaiologos decided to launch the reconquista of the Peloponnese from the Franks (late 13th century), when he arrived in Mistras, the first to welcome him were the Slavs of Taygetos and the Tsakones of Parnon. The Frankish rulers of Peloponnese in the french version of the "chronicle of Morea" describe these Slavs as "un gent de voulentè et n'obeissent a nul seignor" (Livre de la Conqueste de la Princèe de l'Amorèe) "a people with guts who don't obey in no master". Plus, they write that they had conquered all of Peloponnese except the Slavs of Taygetus. We are later told that the same Slavs of Taygetus had liberated the city of Kalamata from the Franks and restored it to the Byzantine control.

a) Mazaris wrote:

[B][I]«Εν Πελοποννήσω, ως και αυτός οίδας, ξείνε, οικεί αναμίξ γένη πολιτευόμενα πάμπολλα, ων τον χωρισμόν ευρείν νυν ούτε ράδιον, ούτε κατεπείγον. α δε ταις ακοαίς περιηχείται, ως πάσι δήλα και κορυφαία, τυχγάνει ταύτα. Λακεδαίμονες, Ιταλοί, Πελοποννήσιοι, Σθλαβίνοι, Ιλλυριοί, Αιγύπτιοι και Ιουδαίοι (ουκ ολίγοι δε μέσον τούτων και υποβολιμαίοι), ομού τα τοιαύτα επαριθμούμενα επτά» [Μάζαρις 1831, 174 και Μάζαρις 1860, 239].
[/I]
"In Peloponnese, as you can see stranger, dwell various mixed ethne mixed among themselves, who's separation is neither easy nor necessary ... "Laconians" (Tzakones), "Italians" ( various western neolatin speakers as Italian, French, Spaniards etc),"Peloponnesians" (non Tsakonian Greek speakers), "Slavenes" (Slavs) "Illyrians" (Albanians), "Egyptians" (gypsies) and "Judaeans" (Jews).
[/B]

b) The Navigator Laskaris-Kananos made the circumnavigation of western Europe (Gibraltar, England, Northern Sea, Baltic Sea). When he reached the city of Lübeck/Ljubice which back then was the frontier between Germanic and Slavic speech he wrote:

Schließlich ist noch als Zeugnis aus dem 15. Jahrhundert für das Fortleben der Slaven am Taygetos eine Stelle aus der Schilderung einer Reise des Laskaris Kananos nach Deutschland und den nordischen Ländern zu erwähnen, deren Entstehung von Vasiljev (Buzeskul-Festschrift S. 397 ff) in die Jahre 1412—1418 gesetzt wird. Der Grieche schildert dort auch die Umgegend von Lübeck und nennt jenes Land Σθλαβουνία. Er fügt dann eine Bemerkung über die Verwandtschaft der lübeckischen Slaven mit den Zygioten im Peloponnes hinzu: Ἀπ᾽ αὐτῆς τῆς ἐπαρχίας ὑπάρχουν οἱ Ζυγιῶται οἱ ἐν Πελοποννήσῳ· ἐπεὶ ἐκεῖσε ὑπάρχουν πλεῖστα χωρία, ἅτινα διαλέγονται τὴν γλῶσσαν τῶν Ζυγιωτῶν. Vgl Vasiljev a. a. 399. Zu dem Namen Ζυγιῶται verweist der russische Historiker auf den Namen Sigo de la Chacoigne für den Taygetos in der französischen Fassung der Chronik vor Morea, welchen er mit griech. Ζυγός = Taygetos gleichseht. Vgl. auch

"From here starts 'Slavunia' (the land of the Slavs), the 'Zygiotes' (inhabitants of Zygòs = Taygetos) must have come from here, because there many villages here that speak the same language with the Zygiotes".

[B][U]Leo VI the wise in his Tactica, how his father Basil I 'byzantinized' the Slavs of his empire[/U][/B]:

[I][B][18.95] «Tαῦτα [τὰ Σκλαβικά ἔθνη] δὲ ὁ ἡμέτερος ἐν θείᾳ τῇ λήξει γενόμενος πατὴρ καὶ Ῥωμαίων αὐτοκράτωρ Βασίλειος τῶν ἀρχαίων ἐθῶν ἔπεισε μεταστῆναι καὶ, γρακῶσας, καὶ ἄρχουσι κατὰ τὸν Ῥωμαϊκό τύπον ὑποτάξας, καὶ βαπτίσματι τιμήσας, τῆς τε δουλείας ἡλευθέρωσε τῶν ἑαυτῶν ἀρχόντων, καὶ στρατεύεσθαι κατὰ τῶν Ῥωμαίοις πολεμούντων ἐθνῶν ἐξεπαίδευσεν, οὕτω πως ἑπιμελῶς περὶ τὰ τοιαύτα διακείμενος, διό καὶ ἀμερίμνους Ῥωμαίους ἐκ τῆς πολλάκις ἀπὸ Σκλάβων γενομένης ἀνταρσίας ἐποίησεν, πολλὰς ὑπ΄ἐκείνων ὀχλήσεις καὶ πολέμους τοῖς πάλαι χρόνοις ὑπομείναντας».
[/B][/I]
English Translation by George T. Dennis's "Tactica" (page 471):

[I][B]"Our father, Emperor of the Romans, Basil, now in the divine dwelling, persuaded these peoples [the Slavic tribes] to abandon their ancient ways and, having tought them the greek language,, subjected them to rulers (archontes) according to the Roman model, and having graced them with baptism, he liberated them from slavery to their own rulers and trained them to take part in warfare against those nations warring against the Romans. By these means he very carefully arranged matters for those peoples. As a result, he enabled the Romans to feel relaxed after the frequent uprisings by the Slavs in the past and the many disturbances and wars they had suffered from them in ancient times".[/B][/I]

[IMG]http://sparotok.blog.bg/photos/83734/original/MAX%20VAS%20GREEK.png[/IMG]


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