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Carlin15 11-12-2018 01:06 AM

Interview ([B]in Vlach[/B]) with Alexandros Kachrimanis, [B][U]Governor of Epirus[/U][/B] - Kachrimanis was born in Ioannina in 1956.
[img]https://i.imgur.com/GJyBPmb.jpg[/img]
Video:
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1600&v=lPo2BjKFvjQ[/url]

Per Kachrimanis, the following are [U]but a few[/U] notable Greek personalities of Vlach stock (there are countless others):

[img]https://i.imgur.com/0K9BiKn.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/xhef5Jo.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/qstcEQb.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/lEqeOsy.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/U8eyY2J.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/FCzQlLE.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/tP42MGK.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/TbNir01.jpg[/img]

The interview was made by Scanteau program from Rep. of Macedonia.

Carlin15 11-16-2018 11:58 AM

[img]https://i.imgur.com/VOfv1iX.jpg[/img]
.
.
[img]https://i.imgur.com/3B1B4hu.jpg[/img]

Source:
[img]https://i.imgur.com/SHFCOvf.jpg[/img]


[img]https://i.imgur.com/1IkxYmG.jpg[/img]


[img]https://i.imgur.com/jIbGISj.jpg[/img]
URL:
[url]https://www.infezmed.it/media/journal/Vol_19_3_2011_10.pdf[/url]

[img]https://i.imgur.com/jGAGLEc.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/xwxnQp4.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/Cr7fjmL.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/h5ybkpD.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/v7u498M.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/wW9NBmF.jpg[/img]

tchaiku 01-27-2019 01:49 PM

The Peloponnese is only one part of Greece, but let us look closely at the other censuses, more specifically the study of Greek Ottomanology Evangelia Balta with reference to the census of the Euboean Island in 1474, ([B]ref. L’Eubée à la fin du XVe siècle: Economie et population, les registres de l’année 1474[/B]), where, based on the anthroponymic discerning criterion, we observe that the settlements of the Chalcis-Aliveris ([B][COLOR="Blue"]central Euboea[/COLOR][/B]) are inhabited by an absolute Arvanite majority, also knowing that historically and traditionally the provinces of Boetia and Attica has been inhabited by an Albanian majority ...

[url]http://27.al/arvanitet-iken-ne-greqi-ne-analogji-emigrantet-e-sotem-ja-kontibuti-dhe-numri-tyre-fakte-qe-duan-ti-fshehin/[/url]

Carlin15 01-27-2019 06:12 PM

[QUOTE=tchaiku;178800]The Peloponnese is only one part of Greece, but let us look closely at the other censuses, more specifically the study of Greek Ottomanology Evangelia Balta with reference to the census of the Euboean Island in 1474, ([B]ref. L’Eubée à la fin du XVe siècle: Economie et population, les registres de l’année 1474[/B]), where, based on the anthroponymic discerning criterion, we observe that the settlements of the Chalcis-Aliveris ([B][COLOR="Blue"]central Euboea[/COLOR][/B]) are inhabited by an absolute Arvanite majority, also knowing that historically and traditionally the provinces of Boetia and Attica has been inhabited by an Albanian majority ...

[url]http://27.al/arvanitet-iken-ne-greqi-ne-analogji-emigrantet-e-sotem-ja-kontibuti-dhe-numri-tyre-fakte-qe-duan-ti-fshehin/[/url][/QUOTE]

1) Vlach villages/settlements in Euboea, both in the central and northern Euboea and in Kymi-Aliveri, lost the Vlach language in the early 19th century.

The municipality of Kymi-Aliveri:
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kymi-Aliveri[/url]

2)
[img]https://i.imgur.com/s06gbei.jpg[/img]

URL:
[url]https://www.jstor.org/stable/30096412?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents[/url]

tchaiku 01-30-2019 10:51 AM

[QUOTE=Carlin15;178808]1) Vlach villages/settlements in Euboea, both in the central and northern Euboea and in Kymi-Aliveri, lost the Vlach language in the early 19th century.

The municipality of Kymi-Aliveri:
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kymi-Aliveri[/url]

2)
[img]https://i.imgur.com/s06gbei.jpg[/img]

URL:
[url]https://www.jstor.org/stable/30096412?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents[/url][/QUOTE]

Yes, I have already cited Bernard Randolph writings about the ethnic composition of the Euboean island in his day.

Carlin15 02-01-2019 09:42 PM

[img]https://i.imgur.com/cbHddbL.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i.imgur.com/NqRMzYV.jpg[/img]

Carlin15 02-17-2019 10:43 PM

[img]https://i.imgur.com/A4d8X3w.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/PVDaBFG.jpg[/img]

URL:
[url]https://www.academia.edu/23934948/History_of_Balkan_Egyptians[/url]

Carlin15 02-18-2019 10:36 AM

[img]https://i.imgur.com/AGeI9hL.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/30Xquq9.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/hhknLHG.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/kDP0YYJ.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/LkObTvb.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/f7EnFqu.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/uWUrdUC.jpg[/img]

Carlin15 02-22-2019 02:16 PM

[SIZE=3][COLOR="#0000CD"][B]"...Kekaumenos explains in the eleventh century that the Vlachs are spread over Epirus and Macedonia [U]but that[/U] [COLOR="Red"]most of them live in Hellas[/COLOR].”[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE]

URL:
[url]https://books.google.ca/books?id=Yyk_DwAAQBAJ&pg=PA21&dq=byzantine+macedonia+vlachs+hellas&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiisZ6N3M_gAhWf2YMKHVt3A8AQ6AEINjAC#v=onepage&q=byzantine%20macedonia%20vlachs%20hellas&f=false[/url]

VMRO 02-22-2019 05:56 PM

[QUOTE=Carlin15;179677][img]https://i.imgur.com/A4d8X3w.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/PVDaBFG.jpg[/img]

URL:
[url]https://www.academia.edu/23934948/History_of_Balkan_Egyptians[/url][/QUOTE]

That article is from Rubin Zemon, after reading some of his press releases lately i'm hesitant to take anything he says as credible.

Carlin15 02-22-2019 07:40 PM

[QUOTE=VMRO;179776]That article is from Rubin Zemon, after reading some of his press releases lately i'm hesitant to take anything he says as credible.[/QUOTE]

Duly noted.

I remember him now! Zemon wrote the preface to the Macedonian edition of Bernal's [I]Black Athena[/I]. I purchased this edition many years ago.

Here is Zemon's Preface:
[url]http://www.academia.edu/9078927/%D0%9F%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%B3%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%BE%D1%80_%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BD_%D0%BC%D0%B0%D0%BA%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%BE%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%BE_%D0%B8%D0%B7%D0%B4%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B5_%D0%BD%D0%B0_%D0%A6%D1%80%D0%BD%D0%B0_%D0%90%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B0_%D0%BE%D0%B4_%D0%9C%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BD_%D0%91%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%BD%D0%B0%D0%BB[/url]

Carlin15 02-24-2019 07:39 AM

[img]https://i.imgur.com/VvSajR7.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/SdVU0d1.jpg[/img]

Carlin15 02-24-2019 07:46 AM

The following are direct quotations from the Greek article [I] [B]GREECE THROUGH THE AGES: A historical and socio-political overview[/B][/I].

Link here:
[url]https://www.freeinquiry.gr/single-post.php?id=4192[/url]

- The Greek war of Independence didnʼt take place because the Greek subjects re-discovered their past which was completely forgotten. The “new comers” that had become subjects of the Ottoman Empire were mere savages that survived by getting ransom after blackmailing and kidnapping both Muslims and Christians and by looting villages. Kyriakos Simopoulos, a noted Greek author in his multi-volume work titled:“Foreign Sight-Seers in Greece” and ”How The Foreign Visitors Saw Greece in 1821” which is based on the narrations of European visitors presents the completely distorted ideas that the European Romantics had about the “modern population” of Greece. They chartered ships to bring clothing and food to the “Greeks” who were supposedly suffering from the “Ottoman yoke” but they ended up returning to their ships not only disappointed but also completely naked since the minute they disembarked, [B][COLOR="Blue"]they were attacked by local ([COLOR="blue"][COLOR="Red"]mainly of Albanian and Wallachian origin[/COLOR][/COLOR]) uncouth mobs[/COLOR][/B] who violently stole all of their possessions including their clothes.

- [B][COLOR="Blue"]The majority of modern Greeks today traces its origin from the mixture of [COLOR="Red"]Albanians, Wallachians, Northern Africans and Anatolians who had infested the land of Greece back then along with Slavs and some Francs and Venetians[/COLOR].[/COLOR][/B] Unfortunately even today, most modern Greeks are oblivious to their true historic and genetic origin. They think that they are the offsprings of ancient Greeks who suddenly saw the “light” and became Christians. Quite the opposite is true; they were Christians who were made to believe that their ancestors were the ancient Greeks.

Carlin15 02-27-2019 05:22 PM

[QUOTE=tchaiku;168516][B]The Byzantine writer Cecaumenos, in his Strategicon of 1066 wrote that the Vlachs of Epirus and Thessalia came from [U]North of the Danube and from along the Sava[/U] and that they were the descendants of the [COLOR="red"]Dacians[/COLOR] and the [COLOR="Red"]Bessi[/COLOR].[/B][/QUOTE]

[img]https://i.imgur.com/uO06lIp.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/7D6yhSK.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/ScklAAu.jpg[/img]

[B][COLOR="Blue"]Bessi was general name of all Thracian tribes around Rhodope Mountains in Roman Empire time. Romans used name "Bessi" to describe other subgroups of Thracians in Rhodope such as Dii,Satrae,Maedi..etc. too.[/COLOR][/B]
[url]https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/ftdna-thracian-i-y13338/about/background[/url]

[img]https://i.imgur.com/Y0slIuB.jpg[/img]


[B]We know that Pachymeres called the Vlachs of Thessaly [I]Myrmidons[/I] as he wrote that they descend from Achilles. (Phrantzes also calls [I]Myrmidons[/I] the inhabitants of Tzaconia.)[/B]

[img]https://i.imgur.com/cbv8ZHc.jpg[/img]

[B]Why did Kekaumenos and Pachymeres have such differing opinions?[/B]


PS:

In the 14th century, Ephraim reports in his chronicle about [B][COLOR="Red"]ACHAIA VLACHIA[/COLOR][/B] (unsure what this might refer to precisely; perhaps it also refers to Thessaly but that does not seem to make sense as Thessaly and neighboring areas were (consistently) known as Great Vlachia, as reported by several authors).

[img]https://i.imgur.com/yXn8TU2.jpg[/img]

Carlin15 03-02-2019 11:38 AM

The Encyclopaedia Britannica: A Dictionary of Arts, Sciences, ... , 1911:

[COLOR="Blue"][B][SIZE="3"]"In A.D. 395 a Gothic horde under Alaric devastated Laconia, and subsequently it was overrun by large bands of Slavic immigrants."
[/SIZE][/B][/COLOR]

URL:
[url]https://books.google.ca/books?id=UylLAQAAMAAJ&q=laconia+devastated&dq=laconia+devastated&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjzv8z08ePgAhUMVa0KHUX-AN4Q6AEITjAH[/url]
[url]https://www.google.ca/search?tbm=bks&hl=en&q=laconia+devastated[/url]


The Illustrated History of Rome: From the Founding of the City by, ... , George A. Smith - 1884:
[img]https://i.imgur.com/QGGmKdE.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/qeUYfOQ.jpg[/img]

URL:
[url]https://books.google.ca/books?id=jEsMAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA70&lpg=PA70&dq=Goths+Sunium&source=bl&ots=UOL61Imho9&sig=ACfU3U3Vj-RzjKQ55DiTgt9SzF0im7RS-Q&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjG493Z9OPgAhWCm4MKHaTiBaUQ6AEwBnoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false[/url]

Carlin15 03-09-2019 02:48 PM

- Between 1480 and 1546, the city of Athens had been [I]vacated[/I] by epidemics, as evidenced by the anonymous chronicle of Oxford ([B]Ectesis chronica and chronicon Athenarum, London, 1902[/B]).

- Historians agree: Athens had been forgotten because of the historical vacuum of so many centuries. It was an insignificant castle of Frankish rule. Until the last quarter of the 17th century it was almost non-existent for foreigners. Everyone believed that it was a bunch of ruins if it had not disappeared altogether. Guillet wrote in 1675: "I had read and heard a thousand times that Athens was a desolate place" (Guillet, p. 211).

- The Dutch traveler Favolius described the city of Athens as "a land of poor people". ([B]Hodoeporiki byzantini lib. III auctore Hugone Favolio – Lovanii (Excudebat Servatius Sassenus, 1563[/B]).

- Julien Bordier, a French traveler, saw a Turkish village in Athens: "From this pervasive state, there is only a sad Turkish village, called Setina, and it is in the hands of one aga." ([B]Athens was called Satines or Setines or Stines; Acropolis was Castro; Piraeus was called Porto-Draco or Porto-Leone from the marble lion, seized by the Venetians.[/B])

- Genovese captain Francesco - Maria Levanto noted in his chronicle: "Today's Athens is but a deserted, barren place scattered with stones." ([B]Prima parte dello specchio del Mare Mediterraneo dal capitan Francesco – Maria Levanto (In Genova, 1664.[/B]).

- "The once glorious Athens is so desolate, it seems incredible, that it was once glorious. I, at least, have not seen a more terrible place. Deserts, marshlands and marshes..." Impressions of the French ambassador, D'Aramon, as noted by his grammatist, the noble Jean Chesneau in 1546. (Jean Chesneau: Le voyage de monsieur d΄Aramon ambassadeur pour le Roy en Levant, escript par un noble homme Jean Chesneau publie et annote par M. Ch. Schefer (Paris, 1887).

URL:
[url]https://diktyoellinwn.wordpress.com/2011/05/26/%CE%B1%CE%BB%CE%B2%CE%B1%CE%BD%CE%B9%CE%BA%CE%AE-%CE%BA%CE%B9-%CF%8C%CF%87%CE%B9-%CE%B5%CE%BB%CE%BB%CE%B7%CE%BD%CE%B9%CE%BA%CE%AE-%CE%B7-%CE%BA%CE%B1%CF%84%CE%B1%CE%B3%CF%89%CE%B3%CE%AE-%CF%84%CF%89/[/url]

Carlin15 03-09-2019 04:12 PM

"Most of the merchants and leading persons at Janina and Metsovo are Vlachs. These Vlachs of Epirus would esteem it an offence to be considered of a comrade race with the Roumans."

- Papers by Command - Volume 87 - Page 104 (Great Britain. Parliament. House of Commons - 1903)

Carlin15 03-09-2019 07:02 PM

1) In [B]Cephalonia[/B], the Arvanites were first settled by the Venetian administration in May 1502 (K. Sathas: «Ελληνικά ανέκδοτα», τόμ. Α΄). Theodoros Bouas Grivas clan established in 1502 on the almost deserted and uninhabited [B]Ithaca[/B].

[url]https://diktyoellinwn.wordpress.com/2011/05/26/%CE%B1%CE%BB%CE%B2%CE%B1%CE%BD%CE%B9%CE%BA%CE%AE-%CE%BA%CE%B9-%CF%8C%CF%87%CE%B9-%CE%B5%CE%BB%CE%BB%CE%B7%CE%BD%CE%B9%CE%BA%CE%AE-%CE%B7-%CE%BA%CE%B1%CF%84%CE%B1%CE%B3%CF%89%CE%B3%CE%AE-%CF%84%CF%89/[/url]

2) Testimony of De la Guilletiere who wrote in 1672: "All the inhabitants of [B]Mesogeia[/B] are called Arvanites." (Georges Guillet de la Guilletiere, Athenes ancienne et nouvelle et l΄etat present de l΄Empire Turc, 1675.)

Mesogeia - the term designates since antiquity roughly the inland portion of the Attic peninsula
[img]https://i.imgur.com/HQfRN4z.jpg[/img]

3) "Leaving Aulis ... we reached a village of Arnaouts. Here they call themselves Arvanites, but I do not know if they come from Albania. [U]They speak their own language that no one understands.[/U] Their clothing is different from the clothing of the Greeks. [U]It is more like the costume of the villagers of France.[/U] In their shaved head they wear a pointed hat." (Sieur d' Loir, French traveler, 1639.)

4) [B]Traveler Nicholas Biddle, comparing the number of Albanians with the "Greeks", estimated at the end of the 19th century that the Albanians would one day absorb the "Greeks":[/B]

[SIZE="3"][B][COLOR="Red"]"Albanians are very likely to absorb the Greeks, who are decreasing rather than rising." [/COLOR][/B][/SIZE]

(«Αθήνα. Το τέλειο πρόσωπο τής ερήμωσης» από το βιβλίο: «Nicholas Biddle in Greece, The journals and letters of 1806», Πενσυλβάνια, 1991.)

[url]https://www.freeinquiry.gr/single-post.php?id=1248[/url]

Carlin15 03-09-2019 07:58 PM

[B][U]Piana degli Albanesi = Piana dei Greci[/U][/B]

URL:
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piana_degli_Albanesi[/url]

Piana degli Albanesi was founded in the late 15th century by a large group of Albanian refugees coming from the Balkans during the conquest of the latter by the Ottoman Empire.

King John II of Spain and Sicily allowed the original refugees to occupy the present place and to preserve their Orthodox Christian rite. [B][COLOR="Blue"]These Albanian refugees were at the time referred to by the surrounding population as [COLOR="Red"]"Greeks"[/COLOR] [U]on account of their Orthodox faith[/U] and the settlement became known as [COLOR="Red"]Piana dei Greci[/COLOR]. For example, in 1673, the local priest Domenico Mamola in a note written in Greek refers to the settlement as Piana dei Greci.[/COLOR][/B]

In 1941 during Mussolini's invasion of Greece, the name was changed to Piana degli Albanesi so as to gain the locals support for the fascist regime's imperialist intentions toward Albania.



Piana dei [B]Greci[/B] - initially [B]"Greeks"[/B], as referred to by the surrounding population while local priests were writing notes in [B]Greek[/B].
They might as well have had some form of medieval Greek "identity" -- and yet nothing, absolutely nothing, changes the fact that the totality of these settlers were [B][COLOR="Red"]Albanian-speakers[/COLOR][/B].

Carlin15 03-23-2019 01:00 PM

Albanese = [I][B]Acarnanians[/B][/I]

[img]https://i.imgur.com/JfYNisr.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/DEP6I1u.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i.imgur.com/cHqUROS.jpg[/img]

Carlin15 03-24-2019 05:02 PM

The Slavs of Arethas of Caesarea

Arethas of Caesarea (circa 860 – circa 939) was the Archbishop of Caesarea in Cappadocia. In 1912 a Greek schola, Sōcratēs Kougeas, pointed out (in the periodical, Neos Hellenomnemon, Νέος Ελληνομνήμων, 1912, starting at p. 472) a reference to Slavs in scholium written by Arethas in the chronicle of patriarch Nicephorus (in a manuscript written in 932). That scholium discusses the Slavic invasion of Greece:

[SIZE="3"]“On the fourth year of his reign [Nicephorus] took place the transfer of Patras of the Peloponnesus, our country, from the Calabrian city of Rhegium to the ancient city of Patras. For it had been driven away or rather forced to migrate by the nation of the Slavs when they invaded the First and Second Thessaly and in addition the country of the Aeniantes and that of the Locrians, both the Epiknemidian and Ozolians, and also ancient Epirus, Attica and Euboea and the Peloponnesus, driving away and destroying the noble Hellenic nations.”[/SIZE]

[SIZE="3"]“They [the Slavs] dwelt there from the sixth year of the region of Maurice [587/588] to the fourth year of that of Nicephorus [805/806] at whose time the governor for the Peloponnesus was sent to the eastern part of the Peloponnesus, from Corinth to Malea, because that part was free of Slavs. One of these governors, a native of Lesser Armenia, and a member of the family called Skleroi, clashing with the Slavic tribes, conquered them in war and obliterated them completely and enabled the ancient inhabitants to recover their own. For the mentioned emperor, having inquired where the colony was, reestablished the people not he ancient soil and granted to Patras, which was a bishopric before this, the prerogatives of a metropolis.”[/SIZE]

The above confirms much of what had been written in the (presumably later) Chronicle of Monemvasia which is why Kougeas set the two texts side by side above.

URL:
[url]https://www.jassa.org/?p=7135[/url]

Carlin15 03-31-2019 10:30 PM

1) "[B]I watched the Koutsovlachi disappear in Thessaly over a period of twenty years. I remember the first time I went up there in 1957, I was stunned, it was another world--it was Rumania[/B]. Blond, blue-eyed women wearing incredibly beautiful costumes: white, with about twelve to fifteen inches of thick fringes at the bottom, in saffron, black, and ocher. And everywhere I went, there were ducks and geese, which I didn't see anywhere else in Greece. Ducks and geese and pigs--standard east and central European farm culture. But I saw all of that disappear."

-- "A Point of Contact: An Interview with Nikos Stavroulakis," by Peter Pappas in The Greek American (January 9, 1988)


2) "In this same period [early 17th century], many people settled down on the outskirts of Thessalonica in Asvestochorion (Kirets-Kioi) to the south of a church beside the rill known as [B]Vlachikos Lakkos[/B]. [B]Apparently they still spoke Vlach.[/B] They were craftsmen--tailors, dyers, jewellers, shoemakers, and so on. They were also more civilized than the local inhabitants, to whom they referred disparagingly as "peasants."

[B][COLOR="red"]The people of the [U]Agrafa[/U]...moved to the east across the Sea of Marmara and [U]colonized villages along the coast of Asia Minor[/COLOR][/U].[/B] Others went north and settled in Philippopolis (now Plovdiv) where there were also Greek immigrants from Epirus, Moschopolis (the exodus from this city was occasioned by its destruction), Rhodes, and the district of Stenemachos. However, [B]most of the migrants from the [U]Agrafa[/U] went even further north to the Danubian principalities, where [U][COLOR="red"]their Latin dialect[/COLOR][/U] apparently facilitated intercourse with the indigenous peoples of those lands[/B]. During the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries, as evidence of their prosperity, these expatriates built handsome homes and beautiful churches in the Agrafa, the Aspropotamos, and generally throughout the Pindus and its spurs. These churches still serve as reminders of the close relationships between the Greeks from the Agrafa and the countries to which they migrated, notably Rumania."

-- The Greek Nation: 1453-1669, Apostolos E. Vacalopoulos (New Jersey, 1976).


3) "[B]The triumph of Vlach cooking however is [/B][I][B]Pita[/B][/I][B], which may be considered the Vlach national dish[/B] ... All kinds of [I]pita[/I] are good, but perhaps the best is that made with leeks, nettles or some similar vegetable. For some obscure reason this dish is practically confined to the Vlachs, and is rarely to be seen in any Greek village."

-- Wace & Thompson, The Nomads of the Balkans (New York, 1913)


4) "I have seen the excellent Greek school for girls at Monastir where Vlach maidens are painfully taught to construe their Xenophone. The ludicrous mistakes of grammar which one heard in the lower forms were enough to show that the teachers were drilling these children in a foreign tongue. It is easy to taboo every word of Vlach within the schoolroom walls. But outside on the steps when Urania quarrels with Aspasia over her broken doll, she expresses her feelings in fluent and natural Vlach."

-- H.N.Brailsford, Macedonia (London, 1903)


5) "Whenever a stranger appears, Metsovo does its best to disguise its Vlach origin, and pretends to be purely Greek. An interesting paper by a Greek doctor, Mr. Spiridhon Sokolis, who practised there in [B]1861[/B] shews how great a change has taken place in recent years. [B]At that time with only a few exceptions none of the women or boys up to the age of ten knew Greek at all, so that Dr. Sokolis had to employ an interpreter[/B]. The men, however, could speak Greek freely as it was an essential language for commerce."

-- Wace & Thompson, Nomads of the Balkans (NY, 1914)


6) "Nevertheless the Vlachs were regarded as regular subjects, served in the army and were required to pay the same taxes as the rest of the country population. There was something in their attitude and activities, however, that marked them as hostile aliens. For instance, in the uprising of the Bulgarians during the reign of Isaac Angelus, Vlachs seem to have taken the initiative. And [B]when in 1284 Andronicus II learned that the Bulgarians were about to invade Thrace, [B]his first measure of defense was to remove the Vlachs in Thrace ... [/B][U][COLOR="Red"]to Asia Minor[/COLOR][/U][/B]."

-- Peter Charanis, "The Formation of the Greek People" (1975)

Carlin15 04-12-2019 11:38 PM

[img]https://i.imgur.com/xEy89oz.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i.imgur.com/fk0qGgW.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i.imgur.com/BzfHIxR.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/xU9SnAN.jpg[/img]

Carlin15 04-16-2019 10:42 PM

Joannes Kinnamos (or John Cinnamus, born shortly after 1143 & died after 1185) connects the Vlachs with the settlers from Italy.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/Uq4ACa6.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/TRGGtSy.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/GFKJOj1.jpg[/img]

tchaiku 04-23-2019 06:57 AM

[QUOTE=Carlin15;179774][SIZE=3][COLOR="#0000CD"][B]"...Kekaumenos explains in the eleventh century that the Vlachs are spread over Epirus and Macedonia [U]but that[/U] [COLOR="Red"]most of them live in Hellas[/COLOR].”[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE]

URL:
[url]https://books.google.ca/books?id=Yyk_DwAAQBAJ&pg=PA21&dq=byzantine+macedonia+vlachs+hellas&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiisZ6N3M_gAhWf2YMKHVt3A8AQ6AEINjAC#v=onepage&q=byzantine%20macedonia%20vlachs%20hellas&f=false[/url][/QUOTE]

I think Hellas means Thessaly in this context.
[url]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellas_(theme[/url])

Carlin15 04-23-2019 11:50 PM

[QUOTE=tchaiku;180489]I think Hellas means Thessaly in this context.
[url]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellas_(theme[/url])[/QUOTE]

There are a few possible [I]meanings[/I] here, but [B]Hellas=Thessaly[/B] in this context is likely based on an (incorrect) assumption, in my opinion, that Vlachs lived primarily/only in Thessaly.

If Kekaumenos meant Hellas=Thessaly in this context, why did he not apply the same "context" to the regions of Epirus or Macedonia as well? Why did he not use the "terms" Nicopolis or Thessalonica?

[img]https://i.imgur.com/xPC4VgK.jpg[/img]

FYI - note that the Theme of Hellas included not just Thessaly, but the entirety of Boeotia, Attica and Euboea (and some smaller nearby islands). [U]The Theme of Hellas literally touches on Corinth.[/U]

And... [SIZE="3"][COLOR="Red"][B]We have an 11th century Testimony which states that “Sikyon is in the country of VLACHIA IN HELLAS” (= Σικυών εστιν η χώρα των Ελλαδικών Βλάχων).[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE]

And famously, Sikyon is the city in Corinth region - the capital Corinth which Roman settlers rebuilt and dwelt in.
[img]https://i.imgur.com/KpeKi5j.jpg[/img]

From the language of the people living there came the numerous "Vlach" toponyms in the Peloponnese, such as Mounte Skouve / Munte Skuve.
[img]https://i.imgur.com/ep4dSjX.jpg[/img]

Above is Page 70 from the book "The Origins of Vlachs", by Sokratis Liakos. Original post - link:
[url]http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showpost.php?p=165215&postcount=60[/url]

Google search results for "Σικυών εστιν η χώρα των Ελλαδικών Βλάχων" in [B]Johannes Tzetzes[/B] and [B]Marcianus[/B]:

[url]https://books.google.ca/books?id=J79OX7uSWiYC&pg=PA28&lpg=PA28&dq=%CE%A3%CE%B9%CE%BA%CF%85%CF%8E%CE%BD+%CE%B5%CF%83%CF%84%CE%B9%CE%BD+%CE%B7+%CF%87%CF%8E%CF%81%CE%B1+%CF%84%CF%89%CE%BD+%CE%95%CE%BB%CE%BB%CE%B1%CE%B4%CE%B9%CE%BA%CF%8E%CE%BD+%CE%92%CE%BB%CE%AC%CF%87%CF%89%CE%BD&source=bl&ots=7ozSKzugee&sig=ACfU3U2lr2rh-E79dynMTQjmSPvyZQp93g&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjuutz7--fhAhVErlkKHW7nAc8Q6AEwAXoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=%CE%A3%CE%B9%CE%BA%CF%85%CF%8E%CE%BD%20%CE%B5%CF%83%CF%84%CE%B9%CE%BD%20%CE%B7%20%CF%87%CF%8E%CF%81%CE%B1%20%CF%84%CF%89%CE%BD%20%CE%95%CE%BB%CE%BB%CE%B1%CE%B4%CE%B9%CE%BA%CF%8E%CE%BD%20%CE%92%CE%BB%CE%AC%CF%87%CF%89%CE%BD&f=false[/url]

[url]https://books.google.ca/books?id=fXI-AAAAcAAJ&pg=PA310&lpg=PA310&dq=%CE%A3%CE%B9%CE%BA%CF%85%CF%8E%CE%BD+%CE%B5%CF%83%CF%84%CE%B9%CE%BD+%CE%B7+%CF%87%CF%8E%CF%81%CE%B1+%CF%84%CF%89%CE%BD+%CE%95%CE%BB%CE%BB%CE%B1%CE%B4%CE%B9%CE%BA%CF%8E%CE%BD+%CE%92%CE%BB%CE%AC%CF%87%CF%89%CE%BD&source=bl&ots=SxKS7c5bko&sig=ACfU3U2yTSuG6mTIAxUnQ6GVahbfhJuzow&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjuutz7--fhAhVErlkKHW7nAc8Q6AEwAHoECAQQAQ#v=onepage&q=%CE%A3%CE%B9%CE%BA%CF%85%CF%8E%CE%BD%20%CE%B5%CF%83%CF%84%CE%B9%CE%BD%20%CE%B7%20%CF%87%CF%8E%CF%81%CE%B1%20%CF%84%CF%89%CE%BD%20%CE%95%CE%BB%CE%BB%CE%B1%CE%B4%CE%B9%CE%BA%CF%8E%CE%BD%20%CE%92%CE%BB%CE%AC%CF%87%CF%89%CE%BD&f=false[/url]

tchaiku 04-24-2019 12:56 PM

For Carlin - Look it this way Epirus and Macedonia were a part of Greece, then why did the author specify it that way. He could've said most Vlachs live in Hellas without mentioning the other part.
Now what you assumed would apply in this context eg:
Vlachs are spread over Albania but most of them live in Greece.

Carlin15 04-28-2019 04:39 PM

[QUOTE=tchaiku;180496]For Carlin - Look it this way Epirus and Macedonia were a part of Greece, then why did the author specify it that way. He could've said most Vlachs live in Hellas without mentioning the other part.
Now what you assumed would apply in this context eg:
Vlachs are spread over Albania but most of them live in Greece.[/QUOTE]

Could you elaborate?

Why do you think that Thessaly=Hellas?

From the wiki link you provided we can read the following about [I]Hellas[/I] (the "boundaries" of [I]Hellas[/I] were obviously in flux):

- During the 10th and 11th centuries, [B][I]Hellas was often governed jointly with the Peloponnese[/I][/B] under a single strategos, and as the civilian administration rose in importance, the same practice appears there as well, with protonotarioi, praetores and kritai being appointed for both themes.

- [I][B]Thessaly appears to have been detached from Hellas and joined to the theme of Thessalonica from the early 11th century[/B][/I]—though the Spercheios valley remained part of Hellas—until sometime in the 12th century.

- The strategos of Hellas is still attested for much of the 11th century, and a doux of Thebes and Euripus after the middle of the 12th century.


My basic point here is that Vlachs lived in Hellas, and the "boundaries" of [I]this[/I] Hellas seemed to have changed over time. What did Kekaumenos mean by it? Did he mean only Thessaly? Possible, and if so, why and how was this concluded?

"Hellas" could have easily encompassed areas adjacent and/or south of Thessaly (i.e. the testimony “Sikyon is in the country of VLACHIA IN HELLAS” is a good indication of it).

Carlin15 05-31-2019 05:55 PM

[B]Andreas Tzimas[/B] (Greek: Ανδρέας Τζήμας; Kastoria, 1 September 1909 – Prague, 1 December 1972), known also under his World War II-era nom de guerre of Vasilis Samariniotis, was [B]a leading Greek Communist politician[/B], best known as one of the leading triumvirate of the Greek People's Liberation Army during the Axis occupation of Greece. After the war, he fell into disfavour and died in obscurity in exile in Prague.

URL:
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andreas_Tzimas[/url]

- The eldest of four children, [B]Tzimas was born to the family of Dimitrios Tzimas, [COLOR="Blue"]a Vlach jurist and lawyer from Samarina[/COLOR][/B]. [B][COLOR="blue"]His mother, Ourania Alvanou, came from Moschopolis[/COLOR] in what is now Albania[/B]. Born in Kastoria, [B][COLOR="blue"]Tzimas spent his first years in Skopje[/COLOR][/B], where his father had moved, until the Balkan Wars led the family to relocate once more to Kastoria, which now had passed from the Ottoman Empire to the Kingdom of Greece.

- He was imprisoned in the Akronauplia prison, where he remained until after the German invasion of Greece. He was released by the new German authorities on 1 July 1941 due to the intervention of the Bulgarian government, which sought the release of any prisoners of Macedonian descent, who were deemed to be pro-Bulgarian. [B][COLOR="blue"]Although not a Macedonian himself, Tzimas spoke the language[/COLOR], and managed to be released as well (along with a few others like him)[/B].

- [B]Despite his distinguished role in the Greek Resistance, after liberation he fell into disfavour with the party establishment[/B]: his failure to be elected to the Central Committee in 1945 was followed by his arrest and exile to Ikaria.

Carlin15 07-27-2019 08:15 AM

URL:
[url]http://web.rgzm.de/en/exhibitions-events/news-details/article/the-slavs-in-the-peloponnese-new-evidence-from-rescue-excavations-in-arcadia.html[/url]

[SIZE="3"][B]The Slavs in the Peloponnese: New evidence from rescue excavations in Arcadia[/B][/SIZE]

[I]Vortrag von Dr. Demetrios Athanasoulis (Athen)[/I]

Within the years 2009-2010, the former 25th Ephorate of Byzantine Antiquities conducted numerous rescue excavations in the prefecture of Arcadia during the construction of a new national road crossing the Peloponnese. This public project was an opportunity for new archaeological investigations concerning the unknown settlement history in the Peloponnese during the Dark Ages and the Middle Byzantine Period.

[B][COLOR="Red"]Among the most interesting discoveries were [U]two cemeteries of the 7th-9th/10th c.[/U], consisting of pits with cremation urns, being undeniably a burial custom linked with Early Slavic populations and reflecting the migration and installation of the Slavs in the very south of the Byzantine Empire.[/COLOR][/B] In particular, in one of the cemeteries appeared graves with inhumations next to traditional cremations, reflecting furthermore the process of the Christianization of the Slavs during the Middle Ages. Slavic burial practices were also detectable in a Christian cemetery of the Byzantine period by the presence of a cremation urn among the inhumations, but also by finds of slow wheel made pots in some of the graves.

[COLOR="Red"][B]These unique archaeological findings were the starting point to establish a research group to examine the [U]still unknown Slavic culture of the Byzantine Peloponnese[/U].[/B][/COLOR] Aim of this lecture is, to give an insight into the current state of this research.

Liberator of Makedonija 07-29-2019 12:32 AM

Excerpt from the American 'Brownsville Daily Herald', published on 6th August 1902.

[IMG]https://i.vgy.me/BURuiv.jpg[/IMG]

Risto the Great 07-29-2019 01:45 AM

I can't find Salesi on the map.

Liberator of Makedonija 07-29-2019 03:19 AM

[QUOTE=Risto the Great;181430]I can't find Salesi on the map.[/QUOTE]

The name may have changed or the village could simply not exist anymore. Also very possible the name was just incorrectly recorded which isn't uncommon from foreign newspapers in regards to the Balkans at the time.

Liberator of Makedonija 07-29-2019 03:22 AM

Risto I found the village here under the new name of Avlonas. It was changed in 1927, a period in which the Greek government pursued a policy to Hellenise all the country's toponyms. The name 'Salesi' to me sounds like an Albanisation of a Romance word.

[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avlonas,_Attica[/url]

Risto the Great 07-29-2019 05:48 AM

Thanks mate. I also came across that village name on Google as soon as I searched for Salesi. So many skeletons in the closet of our Southern neighbours.

Carlin15 07-29-2019 08:18 PM

:thumbup:

[I]Salesi[/I] is just one village, one example.

The whole of Attica was an Arvanite province. According to George Finlay (in 1861) [I]"Albanian colonists now occupy all Attica and Megaris, with the exception of the towns of Athens and Megara, where they form only a portion of the population."[/I] Furthermore, in the book "Greek Dress: From Ancient Times to the Early 20th Century" by Iōanna Papantōniou it says that [I]"...costume in Attica was therefore associated with the Arvanites..."[/I]

Also, a report from 1820 explicitly states that one third of Athens and much of Attica spoke Albanian. :biggrin: So many skeletons it is starting to look like Coco.

Carlin15 08-17-2019 08:45 AM

Sofoklis DOUSMANIS and Viktor DOUSMANIS
[img]https://i.imgur.com/lwYu4rW.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i.imgur.com/kSpUXOD.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/p0JhC1n.jpg[/img]

Carlin15 09-27-2019 07:16 PM

Dionysios Pyrros, Venice 1810

[img]https://i.imgur.com/WzG9Hjm.jpg[/img]

[SIZE="3"]"You may never want to call yourself Romaioi, but Hellenes, because the Romaioi, that is, the Romanoi, barbarized and made Greece ([I]their?[/I]) home. And if you have a new name that is Roman, Jewish, Russian, Arabic, [B]you must change it to a Hellenic name[/B], namely Miltiades, Themistocles, Achilles, Theseus, Alexander, Plato, Demosthenes, etc..."[/SIZE]


[Romaioi = Romanoi = Romans]

Carlin15 10-19-2019 10:08 PM

1) Armenian Mekhitarists built a monastery in the Peloponnese

URL:
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mekhitarists[/url]

"In 1700 Mekhitar went to Istanbul and began to gather disciples around him. Mechitar formally joined the Latin Church, and in 1701, with sixteen companions, he formed a religious institute of which he became the superior. They encountered the opposition of other Armenians and were [B]compelled to move to the Morea (Peloponnese)[/B], at that time Venetian territory, where [B]they built a monastery in 1706[/B]."

2) ARMENIANS IN CRETE

URL:
[url]https://www.facebook.com/139336529442143/posts/-armenians-in-crete-is-an-article-and-short-historical-glance-about-the-armenian/1440907399285043/[/url]

"THE ARMENIAN PRESENCE in the island goes back to 961, when the Byzantine Emperor of ARMENIAN descent, Nicephoros Phocas liberated Crete from the Arab conquerors. The deed was realized with the help of [B]thousand of soldiers of the Armeniacon Thema[/B], the military bases on the borders of Armenia. After completing the mission, [B]the Armenian soldiers made roots all over the island[/B], giving their native country's name to villages (Armeni, Armenokhori, Armenogeia), to summer places (Amari), to different sites (Armenocambos, Armenopetra). [B]Their influence was extended to the architecture, to the vocabulary, to the dress and the preference of black colour, to the boots and head cover[/B], even to some habits as the use of weapons during feasts, the artcraft of Armenian knifes, the vengeance."

3)
[img]https://i.imgur.com/7A9HP35.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/9j2YJ6n.jpg[/img]

Carlin15 11-03-2019 06:00 PM

Agia (Greek: Αγιά, also written Ayia) is a village and a municipality in the Larissa regional unit, Thessaly, Greece. [B][U]Agia is located east of Larissa and south of Melivoia[/U][/B]. The Mavrovouni mountains dominate the south and the Aegean Sea lies to the east.

[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agia,_Larissa[/url]

[img]https://i.imgur.com/reyOXxx.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/IX0dQTM.jpg[/img]

URL:
[url]https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:BfYv4zS-t3EJ:https://pneumatikocentroagias.wordpress.com/2015/05/12/%25CE%25B7-%25CE%25B1%25CE%25B3%25CE%25B9%25CE%25B1-%25CF%2583%25CF%2584%25CE%25B7%25CE%25BD-%25CE%25BF%25CE%25B8%25CF%2589%25CE%25BC%25CE%25B1%25CE%25BD%25CE%25B9%25CE%25BA%25CE%25B7-%25CE%25B4%25CE%25B9%25CE%25BF%25CE%25B9%25CE%25BA%25CE%25B7%25CF%2584%25CE%25B9%25CE%25BA%25CE%25B7-%25CF%2585%25CF%2580%25CE%25BF%25CE%25B4/+&cd=1&hl=el&ct=clnk&gl=gr&client=firefox-b-d[/url]

[SIZE="3"][B]In the Ottoman census of the year 1455 of the Agia village[/B] there are last names like [COLOR="Red"][B]Servos ([I]one full name is recorded as [/I][I]'Ivanis Servos'[/I]), Slavos, Bratois, Kravanidis, Kraslavos, Gaikos, Suhias, Vuikos, Nenadas, Staikos, Stoviravos[/B][/COLOR] and others.

Also there are first names like [COLOR="red"][B]Ivanis, Dobros, Traikos, Milos, Vlados, Stoianos, Nenadas, Vetikos[/B][/COLOR], etc. [COLOR="red"][B]Widow Mila, widow Petrana, widow Vlasina, widow Dobrina[/B][/COLOR] and many more.

(There are also a few last names such as [I]Vlachos, Arvanitis, Moraitis, Muzakis[/I].)[/SIZE]

Some examples of full names:
- Dobros Moraitis
- Stoianos Moraitis
- Ivanis Servos
- Vetikos Servos
- Staikos Servos
- Magos Servos
- Staikos Dermanos
- Nikolas Arvanitis
- Nenadas Arvanitis
- Gazos Arvanitis
- Ginis Vlachos
- Traikos Leontaris
- Giorgos Zagorinos
- Purdanos Kraslavos
- Thodoros Velikas
- Vlados Vlasis
- Ginis Nenadas


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