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-   -   The Real Ethnic Composition of Modern Greece (http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=17)

Carlin15 11-16-2019 04:00 PM

[B]The contribution of Albanians[/B]

URL:
[url]http://www.ekathimerini.com/246522/opinion/ekathimerini/comment/the-contribution-of-albanians[/url]

[I]The big migration wave from Albania in the 1990s revitalized almost all professions and remains a decisive factor in the country’s economic development. Greece gained capable blue-collar workers and laborers who, with their dedication and hard work, continue to contribute to the country and create wealth.[/I]

The contribution of Albanians and ethnic Greeks from Albania to the Greek economy is indisputable. The big migration wave of the 1990s revitalized almost all professions and remains a decisive factor in the country’s economic development. Greece gained capable blue-collar workers and laborers who, with their dedication and hard work, continue to contribute to the country and create wealth.

Today, the children of those migrants not only speak excellent Greek, but are excelling in education, growing up in a country that they now consider their own, and contributing to the development of the arts, sciences and entrepreneurship (even if examples of unequal treatment and unacceptable difficulties in obtaining citizenship still persist).

The fears in the 1990s that the country’s cultural makeup would change were baseless. Let us remember that [B]a great number of Albanian and Slavic people have migrated to Greek lands over the last few centuries and the descendants of many of them are now indistinguishable from the rest of the population. After all, what Greek or Englishman can say that he knows who his ancestors were 1,000 years ago? Even the United Kingdom’s Queen Elizabeth II is of German descent.[/B]

Greece, with its culture, geography, language, climate, history and religion, has created Greeks for millennia, whatever their place of birth.

Consequently, the new migrants who arrive in Greece also carry the promise of a significant contribution to Greece. This does not mean, however, that society has unlimited possibilities to develop social interactions with (the word “assimilate” is tasteless and racist) the “foreigner.”

People who come to our country should be treated well, but Greece cannot continue to take in so many arrivals. The increase in the number of refugees and migrants reaching Greece is driven by anti-Western forces that want to destabilize Europe.

Turkey allows the smuggling boats to sail from its shores, which it controls completely, as a means of pressure. This is aimed at making migration an issue of bilateral negotiation with Athens.

In other words, immigration certainly strengthens Greece in a variety of ways, as the Albanians and ethnic Greeks from Albania have clearly shown, but the large numbers of migrant arrivals, which is the result of secret plans to destabilize Europe, must be controlled by the mobilization of the European Union and NATO.

Carlin15 11-16-2019 07:14 PM

Map showing the territorial requests at the 1919 Peace Conference of Paris for the creation of an Arman-Vlach autonomous state in the Pindus region

[img]https://i.imgur.com/Dt2EkOu.jpg[/img]

Carlin15 11-17-2019 05:16 PM

On this map we see which coastal areas Venetians held in Greece, marked in blue and purple. There was likely a 'significant influx' of Venetian and other colonists in these regions.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/yq7GHVS.jpg[/img]

Dove 11-21-2019 05:14 PM

[QUOTE]Also there are first names like Ivanis, Dobros, Traikos, Milos, Vlados, Stoianos, Nenadas, Vetikos, etc. Widow Mila, widow Petrana, widow Vlasina, widow Dobrina and many more.[/QUOTE]

Great post Carlin. It is interesting that it was (is?) customary when writing in Greek to add Greek word endings to names, even first names. The beauty of (some of) the names identified in the list is that they obviously belong to languages other than Greek.

Carlin15 12-06-2019 10:48 AM

Thanks Dove.



Galaxidi or Galaxeidi, is a town and a former municipality in the southern part of Phocis. According to Edward Dodwell, year 1819: [I][B]The Galaxidiote women all wear the [COLOR="Blue"]Arnaut costume[/COLOR][/B][/I].

[img]https://i.imgur.com/Pe83NpY.png[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/AdcuWNB.png[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/ESARu24.png[/img]

Carlin15 12-24-2019 02:04 PM

[B]A letter from Almira/Almyros (southern Thessaly)[/B], near the town of Ypati, addressed to the famous Alexandar Exarch in Constantinople, [B]dated September 1850[/B] [B]by the peasant[/B] [B][COLOR="Red"]Kalina Stoiku[/COLOR][/B].

The letter was written in Greek. In this letter, Kalina Stoiku pleads for her son, Konstantin Stoiku, to be released from the Constantinople prison where he was sent, slandered, that he was allegedly a robber. The letter, in addition to the signature of Kalina Stoiku, also carries signatures of several other leading figures from the same village, with the following names: [B][COLOR="red"]Mito, Nechko, Licho, Lalo, Dimo[/COLOR][/B] and others.

Carlin15 12-25-2019 08:40 AM

"The Earth and Its Inhabitants", by Elisee Reclus, Ernst Georg Ravenstein, Augustus Henry Kane - [U]year 1882[/U]

Pages 93-94:

- "The Arabs and Venetians, too, have been assimilated by the aboriginal Cretans; but [U][B]there still exist a considerable number of Albanians[/B][/U], the descendants of soldiers, who have retained their language and customs."
- "[U]All Cretans, [B]with the exception of the Albanians[/B], speak Greek[/U]..."

tchaiku 01-20-2020 10:06 AM

Burtzovlachs = Thessalian Vlachs

The earlier known references to the Vlach language date from the VI century (Wace & Thomson, 1989:2). In the Middle Ages, Vlachs established their own states in Great Vallachia (in Thessaly and Southern Macedonia) and Little Vallachia (in Etolia-Akarnania and Southern Epirus), in the XI and XII centuries (Dahmen, 1994:3; Berard, 1987:296); later on, they formed the basis of and provided the rulers to the ‘Second Bulgarian Kingdom’ or ‘Kingdom of Vlachs and Bulgarians’ (1185-1260), which at one point incorporated Great Vallachia. The latter survived the kingdom’s collapse as an autonomous area through the XIV century; then, and for some four centuries, little is known about the Vlachs who, as Orthodox Christians, belonged to the Greek-dominated Orthodox millet (= nationality) in the Ottoman Empire. Modern Vlachs are sometimes called [B]Kutzovlachs (= Vlachs from Little Vallachia) or Burtzovlachs (= Vlachs from Great Vallachia)[/B], terms which have acquired demeaning connotations (Papathanasiou, 1991:25; Lazarou, 1986:62).

[url]http://miris.eurac.edu/mugs2/do/blob.html?type=html&serial=1044526140151[/url]

tchaiku 01-24-2020 05:04 PM

[IMG]https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-br-nxq-iTEg/VIfczUGIrgI/AAAAAAAABFY/3r2lpnKR7NE/w729-h833-no/corinth1.png[/IMG]
[IMG]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/--9hcCtaaUWc/VIfczfGacRI/AAAAAAAABFc/Hylix2oZDwk/w737-h833-no/corinth2.png[/IMG]
[IMG]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-NdoBw-40vgE/VIfc100o84I/AAAAAAAABFw/VoRwzj1VlVU/w768-h824-no/corinth3.png[/IMG]
[IMG]https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-QQ4L8WR14tw/VIfc10yCBWI/AAAAAAAABF4/G-GPaTsE-qo/w768-h832-no/corinth4.png[/IMG]
Physical anthropology/taxonomy: Slavs/Avars of conquered Greece (Macedonia, Peloponesse, Hellas and Epirus) were mediterraean.

Carlin15 01-27-2020 12:52 AM

Thanks tchaiku. Is this "The Avar Invasion of Corinth" by G. R. Davidson (and Tibor Horvath)?

tchaiku 01-27-2020 06:40 AM

[QUOTE=Carlin15;182022]Thanks tchaiku. Is this "The Avar Invasion of Corinth" by G. R. Davidson (and Tibor Horvath)?[/QUOTE]

I directly got those screenshots from another forum I didn't take them myself. But I suppose that must be it.

--

[I]Byzantine records note that Slav numbers were so great, that grass would not regrow where the Slavs had marched through.[/I]
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavs#Migrations[/url]

Carlin15 01-29-2020 12:05 AM

After conquering Constantinople, when Mehmed II finally entered the city through what is now known as the Topkapi Gate, he immediately rode his horse to the Hagia Sophia.

[B]Mehmed's main concern with Constantinople was with rebuilding the city's defenses and[/B] [B]repopulation[/B]. Building projects were commenced immediately after the conquest, which included the repair of the walls, construction of the citadel, and building a new palace.

[B]Mehmed issued orders across his empire that Muslims, Christians, and Jews should resettle in the City demanding that five thousand households needed to be transferred to Constantinople by September.[/B] From all over the Islamic empire, prisoners of war and deported people were sent to the city; these people were called "Sürgün" in Turkish.

According to a survey carried out in 1478, there were then in Constantinople and neighboring Galata 16,324 households, 3,927 shops, and an estimated population of 80,000. [B]The population was about 60% Muslim, 20% Christian, and 10% Jewish.[/B]

URL:
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mehmed_the_Conqueror[/url]

Images from the series Rise of Empires: Ottoman:
[url]https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9244578/[/url]

"Ottoman Sultan Mehmed II wages an epic campaign to take the capital of Constantinople and shapes the course of history for centuries."

For the most part the series is true to history and portrays those fighting the Ottomans [B][U]as Romans[/U][/B].

[img]https://i.imgur.com/6NqgBke.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/XkTldBk.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/CbPUd8k.jpg[/img]

Carlin15 02-17-2020 02:06 PM

1) [B]Case Sotiris Bletsas for Minority Languages[/B] - Video:
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=74&v=e7tP0XpX9ns&feature=emb_title[/url]

[I]The case of Sotiris Bletsas that has been chased by the Greek Law for declaring that his mother language and his origin was Vlach[/I]

In 1995, at an Aromanian festival in Greece, he distributed some EBLUL material about minority languages in Greece. In 2001, on an initiative of the MP for Edessa Evgenios Haïtidis, he was charged with "dissemination of false information" (contrary to article 191 of the Greek Penal Code) who reportedly was supported by the leadership of the Panhellenic Federation of Cultural Associations of Vlachs. The case drew protest from the Greek Helsinki Monitor and from abroad. He was first found guilty and sentenced to fifteen months in jail, suspended for three years, and fined 500,000 drachmas, however, he successfully appealed the decision and was subsequently found not guilty on 18 October 2001.

2) Emperor Nicephorus (802-811) settled colonists from various parts of the empire - "[B]Kapheroi[/B], Thrakesians, Armenians, and [B]others[/B] [B]from different places and cities[/B]" - in the Peloponnese.

Possibly these [B]"Kapheroi"[/B] may have been [B]Syrian Christian ex-subjects of the Caliphate[/B] who had become refugees or evacuees.

URLs:
[url]https://books.google.ca/books?id=-sqiDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA306&dq=Kapheroi+Sparta&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjD4cqwqtnnAhXPc98KHSxWAVcQ6AEIMTAB#v=onepage&q=Kapheroi%20Sparta&f=false[/url]
[url]https://books.google.ca/books?id=Y2EbAAAAYAAJ&q=Kafir+Peloponnese&dq=Kafir+Peloponnese&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiGzM31qdnnAhWMmuAKHfmoCPo4ChDoAQgnMAA[/url]

3) The Venetian Senate authorized the chatelain of Methoni to hire 300 mercenaries. Methoni is an interesting example of how Venetian colonists were settled, and their subsequent way of life. In 1293 the Senate ordered the walls of Methoni and Korone to be rebuilt and the towns populated by 24 families sent from Venice. Inside the burgus, or fortified town, of Methoni were commercial warehouses.

URL:
[url]https://books.google.ca/books?id=kjC1CwAAQBAJ&pg=PA38&dq=venetian+colonists+cyprus&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjF5NTerNnnAhXsct8KHZPMBHIQ6AEIQjAD#v=onepage&q=venetian%20colonists%20cyprus&f=true[/url]

Carlin15 03-01-2020 09:56 AM

1) The term Koutsovlachs that is used by scholars since the past century and which very often has a humiliating character, is related to "Kioutsouk Vlachia" as the Turks called Aetolia-Akarnania ([I]Little Vlachia[/I]). This entire region was an area with majority Vlach-speakers until the years of Cosmas of Aetolia ([I]Epigram of Evgeniou Etolou[/I]).

2) Skourta is a village in Boeotia, Greece - probably associated by Arvanites. The Romanian version of the wikipedia page seems to mention Slavs and Vlachs:
[url]https://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skourta[/url]

What I find interesting is that there was a family with the last name Skourta or Skurta in the village of my ancestors. The Skourta family were Vlach-speakers.

3) Rigas, Georgakis Olympios, Yiannis Pharmakis, Hatzipetros, Vlahavei, [U]all the benefactors[/U] except Sigron, Zappas, Averof, Sinas, Spiridon Lambrou, Papagos, Svolos, Kristallis and many others were of Vlach origin. Another aspect of the newly established Hellenic Republic that is not well known is that many modern artists are of Vlach origin like Koutsomitis, Prokovas, Papatakis, Tsitsanis, Virvos, Kaldaras, Mitropanos, Sgouros, etc.

Amphipolis 03-02-2020 02:29 PM

[QUOTE=Carlin15;182221] Another aspect of the newly established Hellenic Republic that is not well known is that many modern artists are of Vlach origin like Koutsomitis, Prokovas, Papatakis, Tsitsanis, Virvos, Kaldaras, Mitropanos, Sgouros, etc.[/QUOTE]

And... who wrote this? And why is there an unknown name among well-known names? You shouldn't worry about your posts being scrutinized. Nobody here (except for me) knows any of these guys. Actually if you had written 20 random names they wouldn't have noticed it.

I'm a little confused on whether you're partly Greek or not, if you can read or speak Greek, I wonder if any of these names means something to you.


=

Carlin15 03-03-2020 07:52 PM

[QUOTE=Amphipolis;182231]And... who wrote this? And why is there an unknown name among well-known names? You shouldn't worry about your posts being scrutinized. Nobody here (except for me) knows any of these guys. Actually if you had written 20 random names they wouldn't have noticed it.

I'm a little confused on whether you're partly Greek or not, if you can read or speak Greek, I wonder if any of these names means something to you.


=[/QUOTE]

Please follow up with user [B]Antioxos[/B] from [B]Hellas[/B] here:
[url]http://archive.worldhistoria.com/history-of-the-romanians-and-vlachs-2711310_topic12810_page2.html[/url]

Also, check with these bloggers:
[url]https://www.facebook.com/177919176140868/posts/first-cemetery-of-athens-greece-it-is-the-official-cemetery-of-the-city-of-athen/442643606335089/[/url]

"Here a lot of personalities with AROMANIAN / VLACH origins have the tombs.

Among the most famous personalities, we mention:

Odysseas Androutsos, hero of Greek War of Independence;
George Averoff, philanthropist, businessman;
Odysseas Elytis, poet;
Theodoros Kolokotronis, general, politician;
Giorgos Seferis, poet;
Michael Tositsas is one of the Great Benefactors of Greece;
Dimitris Mitropanos, singer"

Dove 03-03-2020 11:44 PM

[QUOTE]1) The term Koutsovlachs that is used by scholars since the past century and which very often has a humiliating character, is related to "Kioutsouk Vlachia" as the Turks called Aetolia-Akarnania (Little Vlachia). This entire region was an area with majority Vlach-speakers until the years of Cosmas of Aetolia (Epigram of Evgeniou Etolou).[/QUOTE]

Is the term "Kioutsouk" therefore a Turkish word? If not, to which language does it belong?

Amphipolis 03-04-2020 02:48 PM

[QUOTE=Carlin15;182250]
"Here a lot of personalities with AROMANIAN / VLACH origins have the tombs.

Among the most famous personalities, we mention:

Odysseas Androutsos, hero of Greek War of Independence;
George Averoff, philanthropist, businessman;
Odysseas Elytis, poet;
Theodoros Kolokotronis, general, politician;
Giorgos Seferis, poet;
Michael Tositsas is one of the Great Benefactors of Greece;
Dimitris Mitropanos, singer"[/QUOTE]

Only Averof and Tositsas were Vlachs or of Vlach origin.

Carlin15 03-05-2020 08:26 PM

[QUOTE=Dove;182255]Is the term "Kioutsouk" therefore a Turkish word? If not, to which language does it belong?[/QUOTE]

The term is likely derived from Turkish: Kioutsouk or Ciuchuk = small. At times, Thessaly and south Macedonia were considered Great Vlachia, whereas ‘small’ Vlachia was Aetolia-Akarnania and adjacent regions. (Pindus was called Upper Vlachia.)




[B]The following article was published in Greek in the journal[/B] [B]Thessalonikeon Polis, May 2003[/B]. The English version reflects updated information. [B]Helen Abadzi[/B] ([email protected]) [B]was born in Thessaloniki, Greece in 1951[/B]. Her ancestors were from eastern Thrace and Sarakatsanoi of Serres ([I]therefore Hellenized Vlach-speakers[/I]). She is an educational psychologist who works at the World Bank and has studied 16 languages. Her hobby is history, and she has published extensively on the interactions between Greece and India through the centuries as well as on Greek communities in British India.

Quote by Helen Abadzi:
"However, historically the members of this ‘minority’ have acted as the backbone of Hellenism: fighters against Ottoman occupation, like [B]Rigas Feraios, Giorgakis Olympios, and possibly Theodoros Kolokotronis[/B]; leaders of leftist resistance against the Germans (EAM), such as [B]Alexandros Svolos and Andreas Tzimas[/B]. [B]Distinguished writers like Kostas Krystallis and Christos Zalokostas were Vlach, as were contemporary composers like Apostolos Kaldaras, Kostas Virvos, Babis Bakalis, and Mitropanos[/B]. Many became rich Balkan merchants during the 18th and 19th centuries and many Greek national benefactors were Vlachs, such as [B]Nikolaos Stournaris, Georgios Arsakis, Michael and Georgios Tositsas, Georgios Sinas[/B]. Simon Sinas financed the construction of the Academy of Athens, while Georgios Averoff contributed to the first Olympic games."

URL:
[url]http://www.farsarotul.org/nl26_1.htm[/url]


Antonis Katsantonis, Arvanitovlach (Farsherot) from Agrafa
[img]https://i.imgur.com/19Zmp5P.png[/img]

Carlin15 03-08-2020 02:09 AM

[img]https://i.imgur.com/wLxbnmO.png[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/ScxZf64.png[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/R4HVdHx.png[/img]

This person (who is half Greek) discovered that his maternal grandfather spoke Albanian. He should stop the research right there - he might be displeased what he finds.
[img]https://i.imgur.com/kqioPMI.png[/img]

On that note, how many people actually do not know what languages their grandparents spoke?

Carlin15 03-08-2020 11:41 AM

Demetrias is now known as Volos.

It was founded in 'Hellenistic' times, named after Greek goddess Demetra.

Goddess Demetra had a lot in common with the Slavic god Volos/Veles.

So, it is possible that the Slavs of Magnesia "translated" the name into their own respective god.

tchaiku 03-21-2020 12:40 PM

[QUOTE=Carlin15;182114]1) [B]Case Sotiris Bletsas for Minority Languages[/B] - Video:
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=74&v=e7tP0XpX9ns&feature=emb_title[/url]

[I]The case of Sotiris Bletsas that has been chased by the Greek Law for declaring that his mother language and his origin was Vlach[/I]

In 1995, at an Aromanian festival in Greece, he distributed some EBLUL material about minority languages in Greece. In 2001, on an initiative of the MP for Edessa Evgenios Haïtidis, he was charged with "dissemination of false information" (contrary to article 191 of the Greek Penal Code) who reportedly was supported by the leadership of the Panhellenic Federation of Cultural Associations of Vlachs. The case drew protest from the Greek Helsinki Monitor and from abroad. He was first found guilty and sentenced to fifteen months in jail, suspended for three years, and fined 500,000 drachmas, however, he successfully appealed the decision and was subsequently found not guilty on 18 October 2001.

2) Emperor Nicephorus (802-811) settled colonists from various parts of the empire - "[B]Kapheroi[/B], Thrakesians, Armenians, and [B]others[/B] [B]from different places and cities[/B]" - in the Peloponnese.

Possibly these [B]"Kapheroi"[/B] may have been [B]Syrian Christian ex-subjects of the Caliphate[/B] who had become refugees or evacuees.

URLs:
[url]https://books.google.ca/books?id=-sqiDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA306&dq=Kapheroi+Sparta&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjD4cqwqtnnAhXPc98KHSxWAVcQ6AEIMTAB#v=onepage&q=Kapheroi%20Sparta&f=false[/url]
[url]https://books.google.ca/books?id=Y2EbAAAAYAAJ&q=Kafir+Peloponnese&dq=Kafir+Peloponnese&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiGzM31qdnnAhWMmuAKHfmoCPo4ChDoAQgnMAA[/url]

3) The Venetian Senate authorized the chatelain of Methoni to hire 300 mercenaries. Methoni is an interesting example of how Venetian colonists were settled, and their subsequent way of life. In 1293 the Senate ordered the walls of Methoni and Korone to be rebuilt and the towns populated by 24 families sent from Venice. Inside the burgus, or fortified town, of Methoni were commercial warehouses.

URL:
[url]https://books.google.ca/books?id=kjC1CwAAQBAJ&pg=PA38&dq=venetian+colonists+cyprus&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjF5NTerNnnAhXsct8KHZPMBHIQ6AEIQjAD#v=onepage&q=venetian%20colonists%20cyprus&f=true[/url][/QUOTE]
Who were Thrakesians?

Amphipolis 03-21-2020 12:47 PM

[QUOTE=tchaiku;182419]Who were Thrakesians?[/QUOTE]

This is what makes everybody lose his sleep nowadays, so here's the answer.

[URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thracesian_Theme"]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thracesian_Theme[/URL]

Carlin15 03-21-2020 04:34 PM

- Constantine VII Porphyrogennetos (913-920/944-959), in his text On themes, informs us that [B]the area’s inhabitants were called Thrakesians because they came from Thrace[/B]; He also adds that they were «laborious» and «manual workers».

- The failed mutiny against Basil I (867-886) the Macedonian, co-emperor to Michael III (842-867), in 866, was led by [B]the Thrakesian general Symbatios[/B] and the earl of Opsikion George Peganes. (Symbatios or Symbatius is the [I]Hellenized form[/I] of the [B]Armenian name Smbat[/B]. It was particularly frequent in Byzantine times.)

URLs:
[url]http://www.ehw.gr/asiaminor/Forms/fLemmaBody.aspx?lemmaid=8714[/url]
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbatios[/url]

Carlin15 03-21-2020 07:18 PM

Dimitri Abeleanu from Avdella, Aegean Macedonia - [I]"Neamul Aromanesc din Macedonia"[/I], Bucharest 1916.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/4ZNBEut.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/GwLt88U.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/1HDvwIJ.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/SmN7eo1.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/xHARg5z.jpg[/img]

Carlin15 03-27-2020 07:08 PM

[B][U]Ethnic categorization in the slave market of Crete[/U][/B]

Let's review the ethnic categorization in the medieval documents of Venetian slave market notarial deeds. Venetian notaries recorded hundreds of slave sales in which slaves are categorized by their respective Venetian notary. Of course, we are talking about ethnic terms as the Venetian notaries understood them at the time.

Charles Verlinden has written extensively about the slave trade in the eastern Mediterranean and his notarial deeds in the late Middle Ages (14th-15th centuries): Charles Verlinden (1962), La Crète, débouché et plaque tournante de la traite des esclaves aux XIVe et XVe siècles, στο Amintore Fanfani (επ.), Studi in onore di Amintore Fanfani III: Medioevo (Milano A. Giuffrè 1962), pp. 593-669.

The slave market of Crete (Candia) was the most important slave market in the eastern Mediterranean.

The ethnic composition of the slaves of the Genoese slave trade in the Black Sea included the Tatars (by far the most common ethnicity of the slaves there), Russians, Alans, Cumans, Circassians, etc. These typical ethnicities of the Black Sea / Genoese slave trade constituted about 28% of the slaves trafficked into the Venetian slave market in Crete, which, according to Verlinden, is an indication of the high commercial activity of the Genoese.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/LLSdPHP.png[/img]

I won't go into too much detail, but here is a sample list of slaves in Crete per Manoli Bresciano: [B]Bulgarians, Serbs, Vlachs, Arvanites, etc[/B].

[img]https://i.imgur.com/MxfkJWN.png[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/9NxBl5V.png[/img]

sydney 03-27-2020 09:47 PM

Interesting how the same names appear across all ethnicities. A lack of imagination on someone’s behalf, or a complete lack of interest/care considering slaves are stripped of all dignity. And Marica is Greek apparently.

Carlin15 03-29-2020 12:51 PM

As mentioned above, we are talking about [I]ethnic terms[/I] here as the Venetian notaries understood them at the time. The most problematic one ([I]again[/I]) proves to be the [I]ethnic term[/I] "Greek". [B]The Albanian slaves from Epirus were called Greeks:[/B]

"In the Venetian archies of archivio notarile there are reports of [B]Albanian slaves in Crete[/B] noted by Manoli Bresciano from 1359-1388. [B]The majority of Albanian slaves from Epirus (de partibus Despotate) were called "Greeks".[/B]"

So, when we see in lists "Greeks" alongside "Albanians", "Vlachs" or others, we can't conclude anything with a significant degree of confidence as those Greeks might have been Albanian-speaking and/or Vlach-speaking (bilingual) Christians, etc.

URL:
[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanian_slaves[/url]


Also, according to the analysis in this book, [B]the communities of Bulgarians in Crete as well as Cyprus were "relatively large"[/B]:
[img]https://i.imgur.com/amPNmJq.png[/img]

URL:
[url]https://books.google.ca/books?id=tjPEtxSOuYgC&pg=PA508&dq=nikola+petrov+varna+slaves+crete&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjVov-UncDoAhWSdN8KHUx-CD4Q6AEIJzAA#v=onepage&q=nikola%20petrov%20varna%20slaves%20crete&f=false[/url]

In conclusion, the above proves the existence of Albanian, Vlach, and Slavonic communities on Crete.

Amphipolis 03-29-2020 03:03 PM

[QUOTE=Carlin15;182530] The most problematic one ([I]again[/I]) proves to be the [I]ethnic term[/I] "Greek". [/QUOTE]

Really, I thought the most problematic [U]once again[/U] is something else (something that is missing). I don't see why you bother to post evidence against your points.

sydney 03-29-2020 04:19 PM

We all know “it was never yet possible to buy a decent slave“ from Macedonia.

Carlin15 03-29-2020 11:40 PM

[img]https://i.imgur.com/ot5kCbg.png[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/YQQIIlI.png[/img]

tchaiku 03-30-2020 04:12 AM

The contrast of Gothic toponyms in Italy and the Slavic toponyms in Greece is very interesting.
''Despite a sustained Lombard presence, the region has few Germanic toponyms.''
[url]https://books.google.com/books?id=xYwBAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA32&dq=germanic+toponyms+in+italy&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjM_4CZ58HoAhXCxcQBHUTmCu8Q6AEwB3oECAkQAg#v=onepage&q=germanic%20toponyms%20in%20italy&f=false[/url]

''All the Germanic placenames that do exist in Italy are only attached to small settlements, and it is noteworthy that no sixth-centry source refers to a single one.''
[url]https://books.google.com/books?id=7ndeDi_fwq0C&pg=PA333&dq=gothic+place+names+in+italy&hl=en&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiesJj_5sHoAhVwxKYKHSxFBEcQ6AEwAHoECAIQAg#v=onepage&q=gothic%20place%20names%20in%20italy&f=false[/url]

Given the fact that Italy had 18,100,000 inhabitants in 1800, there were less Germanic toponyms in the whole of Italy than the 350-450 Slavic toponyms of Peloponnese with a population of 330,000 in 1800.
The Germanic impact in the gene pool of Italians is around 10% to 15%, so you have your conclusions.

Carlin15 04-04-2020 12:42 AM

[COLOR="Red"][B][SIZE="3"]Year 1814: Aetolia, now called Vlakia[/SIZE][/B][/COLOR]

A Sketch of Modern and Antient Geography ... Third edition, By Samuel Butler, 1814.

Page 150:
[SIZE="3"]"[B]West of Locris, Phocis, and Doris, was Aetolia, now called [I]Vlakia[/I], from the Valaques[/B], settled there by the Greek Emperors, having the Sinus Corinthiacus for its Southern, the river Achelous for its Western, and Thessaly for its Northern boundary."[/SIZE]

[I][COLOR="blue"]Greek Emperors[/COLOR][/I] = Byzantine or Roman Emperors
[I][URL="http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.04.0064:entry=corinthiacus-sinus-geo"][U][COLOR="Blue"]Sinus Corinthiacus[/COLOR][/U][/URL][/I] = the Gulf of Corinth or the Gulf of Lepanto: the gulf between Northern Greece or Hellas Proper, and the Peloponnesus. It commenced, according to Strabo (viii. p.335, seq.), at the mouth of the Evenus in Aetolia (some said at the mouth of the Achelous) and the promontory Araxus in Achaia, and extended to the Isthmus of Corinth. It consisted of two distant portions, an outer and an inner sea, separated from one another by the narrow strait, between the promontories Rhium and Antirrhium.

URL:
[url]https://books.google.ca/books?id=aEa_GgUSM7MC&pg=PA150&lpg=PA150&dq=Valaques+Thessaly&source=bl&ots=onEH8ZvTAZ&sig=ACfU3U1VhH8Pz_Mhm-OCPsmQ7OUgniA0rQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwivnuvchM7oAhVEheAKHf9SCKMQ6AEwDXoECAwQOw#v=onepage&q=Valaques%20Thessaly&f=false[/url]

Carlin15 04-04-2020 08:58 PM

[img]https://i.imgur.com/IyIPFmg.png[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/yAwTl9d.png[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/zmmxa8z.png[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/0WBAHax.png[/img]


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