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-   -   The Real Ethnic Composition of Modern Greece (http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=17)

maco2envy 09-05-2018 07:27 AM

Err these are not simply "genes" but a collections of DNA markers which are grouped according to some criteria.

Myheritage's so called "Balkan" group does not sound really Balkan either, given it's really common for Slovenians, Romanians and Slovakians. Also going by your logic the "Balkan" group should probably be "Slovenian", as it is the most prevalent in Slovenians.

Also given that only 19.1% of Turks have an affiliation to this "Greek" group makes it sound like these markers are related to Paleo Balkan people mixed with other people whom settled in the Balkans (Slavs, Vlachs, ect). I'd assume many people in RoM and Albania will also belong to this "Greek" group.

Amphipolis 09-05-2018 07:43 AM

I don’t really know if it would be fair to understand the Balkan marker as ancient Thracian or Thraco-Illyrian. It seems to be Paleo-Balkan and not Greek.

I also suspect “Eastern European” is for Slavic, though something seems to be wrong with Hungary.

19% Greek in Turkey seems correct, as Turkey is a very big country and extends very far to the East. The West-Asian marker seems to describe Anatolian-Persian people which is most of Turkey’s population.

I don’t really know how these markers or genes work but they seem to match with the situation. Example: One of my grandmothers comes from the Aegean coast of Asia Minor, i.e. the borderline of “Greek” and “West Asia” marker. Thus, before getting my results I would bet-expect one of these two or a combination. Let’s wait and see.

maco2envy 09-05-2018 07:56 AM

You should also try GEDmatch with the files you receive from Myheritage for comparison (I think it's for free)

Amphipolis 09-05-2018 08:12 AM

I promise to try everything especially if I don’t like the results.

This is another DNA results video from a different company (didn’t get the name). A beautiful black girl who knows she’s 100% Ethiopian, yet very light-color skinned finds out she’s 2/3 African and 1/3 Arab.

In 8:30-9:30 there’s something interesting. The company provides full (weighted) DNA makeup per country (in % percentages) which is what my-heritage-DNA doesn’t give though it’s mathematically simple.

[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4a7Z8Q43cfw"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4a7Z8Q43cfw[/URL]

Amphipolis 09-06-2018 10:23 AM

I moved this here:

[COLOR="Blue"][I]Balkan is a classification specifically made by MyHeritage to denote South Slavic ancestry, which is a combination of incoming Slavic tribes in the Early Middle Ages, and assimilated Thracians, Illyrians, Dacians etc. Since Albanians are a Paleo-Balkanic people without (major) Slavic ancestry.. they do not score this in great amounts. Matter of fact, I have seen Greeks score more of this, especially northern Greeks score around 30% Balkan, than Albanians.
[/I][/COLOR]

My impression is that Balkan stands for Ancient Thracians (and Illyrians maybe), not for Slavs. A Northern Greek having 30% Balkan seems normal. I’m 50% Northern Greek (Macedonian & Thracian) let’s see how much Balkan I will score.

[COLOR="blue"][I]That's it. No other classification than 'Greek', a fellow Paleo-Balkanic ethnic group, that makes the slightest sense for Albanians to score in their results. It does not matter whether it is South or north, Tosk or Gheg Albanians we are speaking of, they score 'Greek' because that is the only ethnic group in MyHeritage's database genetically closest to them. It has nothing to do with Tosks having some Greek ancestors, Kosovars also score loads of 'Greek' and often even more than actual Greeks.
[/I]
[/COLOR]
That’s an interesting DNA classification problem. My understanding is that Albanians, a separate people, with a separate language and NO brotherly populations SHOULD have some major differences in their DNA. One company cannot separate Greeks from Italians another company seems to achieve this successfully. I knew all Scandinavians are one people but I’m impressed no company can separate German and French people.

[COLOR="blue"][I]My father took a Myheritage DNA test, he is both Kosovar and Greek, and he turned out to be 67.1% 'Greek'. His Greek side is from the Peleponnese and northern Greece, where the people do have quite some foreign admixture thus if he were only Greek he would not score more than 60% Greek, and his Albanian side is obviously from Kosovo, a region with absolutely no historical Greek population. A Gheg (northern) Albanian I met on the internet showed his results and they said he is 94% Greek.
[/I][/COLOR]

These are not the strangest results. Overall Albanian results do not exist yet, so I don’t know what Albanians would expect as normal.

[COLOR="blue"][I]'Greek' includes the descendants of other Paleo-Balkanic peoples with little Slavic ancestry, so does it include many west Anatolian ancient nations such as Carians, Lydians, Lycians, Mysians, Bithynians etc. It is a big mistake for companies to call the classification they make for the Greek people 'Greek' if they do not make seperate additional classifications to represent Albanians and ancient Anatolian ancestry, who otherwise just fall under the ‘Greek’ section. Thus one should take their results with a grain of salt.
[/I][/COLOR]

I believe Slavs are clustered in the “Eastern Europe” category and most of the other people in “West Asia”

tchaiku 09-06-2018 10:38 AM

[QUOTE=Amphipolis;176163]I moved this here:

[COLOR="Blue"][I]Balkan is a classification specifically made by MyHeritage to denote South Slavic ancestry, which is a combination of incoming Slavic tribes in the Early Middle Ages, and assimilated Thracians, Illyrians, Dacians etc. Since Albanians are a Paleo-Balkanic people without (major) Slavic ancestry.. they do not score this in great amounts. Matter of fact, I have seen Greeks score more of this, especially northern Greeks score around 30% Balkan, than Albanians.
[/I][/COLOR]

My impression is that Balkan stands for Ancient Thracians (and Illyrians maybe), not for Slavs. A Northern Greek having 30% Balkan seems normal. I’m 50% Northern Greek (Macedonian & Thracian) let’s see how much Balkan I will score.

[COLOR="blue"][I]That's it. No other classification than 'Greek', a fellow Paleo-Balkanic ethnic group, that makes the slightest sense for Albanians to score in their results. It does not matter whether it is South or north, Tosk or Gheg Albanians we are speaking of, they score 'Greek' because that is the only ethnic group in MyHeritage's database genetically closest to them. It has nothing to do with Tosks having some Greek ancestors, Kosovars also score loads of 'Greek' and often even more than actual Greeks.
[/I]
[/COLOR]
That’s an interesting DNA classification problem. My understanding is that Albanians, a separate people, with a separate language and NO brotherly populations SHOULD have some major differences in their DNA. One company cannot separate Greeks from Italians another company seems to achieve this successfully. I knew all Scandinavians are one people but I’m impressed no company can separate German and French people.

[COLOR="blue"][I]My father took a Myheritage DNA test, he is both Kosovar and Greek, and he turned out to be 67.1% 'Greek'. His Greek side is from the Peleponnese and northern Greece, where the people do have quite some foreign admixture thus if he were only Greek he would not score more than 60% Greek, and his Albanian side is obviously from Kosovo, a region with absolutely no historical Greek population. A Gheg (northern) Albanian I met on the internet showed his results and they said he is 94% Greek.
[/I][/COLOR]

These are not the strangest results. Overall Albanian results do not exist yet, so I don’t know what Albanians would expect as normal.

[COLOR="blue"][I]'Greek' includes the descendants of other Paleo-Balkanic peoples with little Slavic ancestry, so does it include many west Anatolian ancient nations such as Carians, Lydians, Lycians, Mysians, Bithynians etc. It is a big mistake for companies to call the classification they make for the Greek people 'Greek' if they do not make seperate additional classifications to represent Albanians and ancient Anatolian ancestry, who otherwise just fall under the ‘Greek’ section. Thus one should take their results with a grain of salt.
[/I][/COLOR]

I believe Slavs are clustered in the “Eastern Europe” category and most of the other people in “West Asia”[/QUOTE]

Look at Albanians and mainland Greeks:

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/pb7Osaw.png[/IMG]

They barely differ. Illyrians, Thracians, Italians and Hellenes did not have a major genetic distance. Similar to north Germans and Dutch.
There is no ''Greek'' gene or ''Thracian'' gene.

Amphipolis 09-07-2018 02:52 AM

Everything seems normal in this diagram, but you have to understand that every dot is simply ONE person and the DNA cmpanies utilize much more info than two indices. Having said that, this diagram DOES separate Germans and French.

maco2envy 09-07-2018 04:53 AM

[QUOTE] DNA companies utilize much more info than two indices[/QUOTE]

Pretty sure the above is Principle Component Analysis. There could be 100's of variables involved which they project into to a 2D plane (like the one above). So you're right that each dot represents one person, but I'm sure there is much more information involved than two variables.

tchaiku 09-07-2018 07:20 AM

[QUOTE=Amphipolis;176174]Everything seems normal in this diagram, but you have to understand that every dot is simply ONE person and the DNA cmpanies utilize much more info than two indices. Having said that, this diagram DOES separate Germans and French.[/QUOTE]

Academic PCA works are MUCH more accurate. Other than the fact that it can be influenced by political agenda.

Besides when you said that it is normal for Albanians to score ''Greek'' (not that it bothers me) did you mean Greek literally?

Autosomal DNA cannot tell you are Greek or Italian in percentage. It can tell you that you are GENETICALLY close to Greeks or that you had some cousins in Greece in the past 200-300 years, but it ends there.

This Cypriot guys scores more than 50% Greek:
Gedmatch.com Eurogenes K13 Results:
# Population (source) Distance
1 Cyprian 5.9
2 [B]Lebanese_Muslim [/B][B]9.67[/B]
3 Sephardic_Jewish 10.2
4 Algerian_Jewish 10.35
5 [B]South_Italian 10.71
[/B]6 Tunisian_Jewish 10.73
7 Italian_Jewish 11.3
8 Syrian 11.5
9 Ashkenazi 11.55
10 Libyan_Jewish 11.66
11 East_Sicilian 11.69
12 Central_Greek 12.18
13 Samaritan 13.19
14 Lebanese_Christian 13.75
15 Turkish 14.12
16 Lebanese_Druze 14.52
17 Jordanian 15.08
18 Assyrian 15.64
19 Palestinian 15.78
20 Italian_Abruzzo 16.04

He is closer to Lebanese than Italians.

tchaiku 09-09-2018 03:10 PM

[QUOTE=tchaiku;173104]Basically what Howell is saying; is that old Greek is no longer spoken like it used to be ... well well neither is today. The Greek language that Romans used was not Doric, Ionic, Aeolic or any other native Hellenic dialect. They used Koine Greek. Which is what this is all about.

The author did not imply that there were no Greek speakers. He, however, leaves an important note that Slavonic is spoken in Epirus and Macedonia. Macedonia is an other story, but weren't Slavs in Epirus hellenized much earlier? Also did Albanians and Vlachs become the next dominant element in the region?[/QUOTE]

*Region not religion. Grammar mistake.


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