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-   -   The Real Ethnic Composition of Modern Greece (http://www.macedoniantruth.org/forum/showthread.php?t=17)

Carlin15 08-16-2018 10:28 PM

[img]https://i.imgur.com/izZZH4C.jpg[/img]
[img]https://i.imgur.com/hd0x8Fk.jpg[/img]

[I][B]Why did the Arvanites of Greece start speaking Greek in the war of independence from the Ottomans?[/B][/I]

"I believe that the idea that the Arvanites ‘started speaking Greek during the war of independence from the Ottomans’ stems from the writings of the Austrian albanologist Johann Georg von Hahn. In his book ‘Albanesische Studien’ (=Albanian Studies) published in 1853 he makes such an assertion. Here is the extract where the statement is made (the English translation was taken from ‘The Westminster Review’ vol. 62 (1854) pp.191–192[1])"
[img]https://i.imgur.com/6b5c5JV.png[/img]
"From this extract it is, however, clear that among the Arvanites only the women could not speak Greek prior to the War for Independence. [B]The men obviously could[/B]."

[url]https://www.quora.com/Why-did-the-Arvanites-of-Greece-start-speaking-standard-Greek-in-the-war-of-liberation-from-the-Ottomans-Is-it-true-that-one-leader-declared-one-to-another-I-knew-that-you-are-Arvanitis-like-me-where-did-you-learn[/url]

Carlin15 08-18-2018 11:30 PM

[img]https://i.imgur.com/5ya541X.jpg[/img]

Antonis Rizos.

The screenshot above is derived from the periodical edition "Ta istorika", issue 28-29, of the publishing house Μέλισσα (Melissa).

In the highlighted text of the above screenshot A. Rizos states that he considers that the mainly agricultural populations of southwest Thessaly, known as Karagounides (Garagounides), are the hellenized descendants of Arvanites who, according to the available reports, appeared in those parts at the beginning of the 14th century.

Carlin15 08-28-2018 08:52 PM

URL:
[url]https://archive.org/details/jstor-3014268[/url]

[img]https://i.imgur.com/eA8udF0.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i.imgur.com/GoavAyi.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i.imgur.com/jL0WPlt.jpg[/img]

[img]https://i.imgur.com/xsNB5WB.jpg[/img]

Carlin15 08-29-2018 09:10 PM

In ancient times, Evrytanians/Eurytanians were described as forming a great part of the [B]Aetolian [I]ethnos[/I][/B]
[url]https://books.google.ca/books?id=T7aH-tU3x3UC&pg=PA6&dq=Eurytanians+barbarians&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi7_rKd2pPdAhUr_4MKHffEDZMQ6AEIJzAA#v=onepage&q=Eurytanians%20barbarians&f=false[/url]

[url=https://imgur.com/yxsBrQm][img]http://i.imgur.com/yxsBrQm.png[/img][/url]

[url=https://imgur.com/N3bb65Y][img]http://i.imgur.com/N3bb65Y.jpg[/img][/url]

[URL=http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/Carlin177/media/20170319_224740_zpshsgdoect.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w416/Carlin177/20170319_224740_zpshsgdoect.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
[I]Fanis Michalopoulos referring to the visit of Cosmas of Aetolia to Aspropotamos and Agrafa regions, stresses that "the language here (was) Vlach in most villages"[/I]

Amphipolis 09-03-2018 09:49 AM

LOL, most of the questions posed in the forum during the last decade are already answered (separately) in each DNA company. I haven't received my results yet, but after registering My-Heritage-DNA it does provide tables with ethnicity percentages for each country.

Watch out. These percentages do not add-up to 100%. It means that 1,3% of Greek users have some small Nigerian heritage. It also suggests that 79% have Greek heritage (in various percentages), i.e. 21% have 0 Greek heritage (of course in the way the company defines Greek). So here's the percentages for Greece (explanations are mine):

Greek 79%
Balkan 27%
Italian 21%
West Asian 21% (This covers Turkey-Iran)
N-W Europe 8% (this is France-Germany)
Iberia 7%
Scandinavia 6%
Middle East 6%
Sardinia 4%
East Europe 4%
England 3%
Ireland-Scotland-Wales 3%
Sephardic Jews-North Africa 3%
Baltic 2,1%
India 2,1% (gypsies, I guess)
Mizrachi Jews-Iran-Iraq 1,3%
Nigeria 1,3%
Askenazi Jews 1%

Amphipolis 09-03-2018 10:06 AM

This is the link. I hope it gives access to you. You can also check by ethnicity.

[URL="https://www.myheritage.com/ethnicities/europe/continent-country-list"]https://www.myheritage.com/ethnicities/europe/continent-country-list[/URL]

maco2envy 09-03-2018 11:03 PM

[QUOTE=Amphipolis;176127]This is the link. I hope it gives access to you. You can also check by ethnicity.

[URL="https://www.myheritage.com/ethnicities/europe/continent-country-list"]https://www.myheritage.com/ethnicities/europe/continent-country-list[/URL][/QUOTE]

I don't find these clusterings intuitive at all. Is there really a "Greek" cluster/ethnicity if that collection of DNA markers is also present in 73% of Bulgarians (in comparison to the 79.4% of Greeks)?

Amphipolis 09-03-2018 11:24 PM

[QUOTE=maco2envy;176133]I don't find these clusterings intuitive at all. Is there really a "Greek" cluster/ethnicity if that collection of DNA markers is also present in 73% of Bulgarians (in comparison to the 79.4% of Greeks)?[/QUOTE]

Based on random YouTube videos I can find, in Bulgarians or Albanians the "Greek" will appear in smaler percentages but, yes, it will be there for 70% of the people. Other companies don't have "Greek" but a wider "Greece/Italy" category.

maco2envy 09-03-2018 11:44 PM

To me ansetoryDNA's classifications make much more sense. The link you posted basically shows it's more of a "Bulgarian/Greek" cluster than a "Greek/Italian"
[IMG]https://imgur.com/a/hMgnQPL[/IMG]

see:
[URL="https://www.myheritage.com/ethnicities/greek/ethnicity-worldwide-distribution"]https://www.myheritage.com/ethnicities/greek/ethnicity-worldwide-distribution[/URL]

Amphipolis 09-04-2018 12:20 AM

[QUOTE=maco2envy;176135]To me ansetoryDNA's classifications make much more sense. The link you posted basically shows it's more of a "Bulgarian/Greek" cluster than a "Greek/Italian"
[IMG]https://imgur.com/a/hMgnQPL[/IMG]

see:
[URL="https://www.myheritage.com/ethnicities/greek/ethnicity-worldwide-distribution"]https://www.myheritage.com/ethnicities/greek/ethnicity-worldwide-distribution[/URL][/QUOTE]

The dominant gene in Bulgaria is "Balkan", so is in other Balkan countries North of Greece.

This is an example of a Bulgarian with Zero Greek
[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-Uedxoz8oM"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-Uedxoz8oM[/URL]

And this is a Bulgarian girl with Zero Balkan!
[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfSh938Hb4E"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfSh938Hb4E[/URL]


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