Singular Macedonian voice in Greece

[Risto the Great]

Does anyone think the singular voice of Macedonians in Greece (presently Vinozito) is working? What else could they do for Macedonians?

[El Bre]

I think that alternatives are always a good thing. The more choices people have, the better the chance that they will find a good fit. If someone isn't comfortable with Vinozhito for example, but they are the only game in town, then that person is basically out of luck and might leave the movement altogether.

[Sv. Nikola]

Does anyone think the singular voice of Macedonians in Greece (presently Vinozito) is working? What else could they do for Macedonians?

We have to have all respect to Vinozito, why,it is only voice that have balls to raise macedonia voice and show that are other national -Macedonian population, live in Greece.

[MapleLeaf1]

We have to have all respect to Vinozito, why,it is only voice that have balls to raise macedonia voice and show that are other national -Macedonian population, live in Greece.

Right now Vinozito and Dedo Tsarknais are all we have, so some blind faith is needed with them until someone else comes around. We must stand united

[Risto the Great]

Right now Vinozito and Dedo Tsarknais are all we have, so some blind faith is needed with them until someone else comes around. We must stand united

Neither of the 2 examples you give has inspired the Macedonians of Greece. Aside from making us in the Diaspora feel good, how have they helped to improve sentiment in the Macedonian strongholds in Greece?

[Pelister]

Neither of the 2 examples you give has inspired the Macedonians of Greece. Aside from making us in the Diaspora feel good, how have they helped to improve sentiment in the Macedonian strongholds in Greece?

I can't answer that.

I think that Dedo Tsaknias has alot of guts to stand up and be counted. Many people have a pretty good life in Greece, and that is reason enough, from their point of view, not to rock the boat too much I suppose.

They are representing the Macedonians, at the very least, symbolically.

Are you suggesting a new Macedonian based political party, like OMO Ilinden in Pirin ? It would end up in court ! But perhaps its worth a try?

[MapleLeaf1]

I can't answer that.

I think that Dedo Tsaknias has alot of guts to stand up and be counted. Many people have a pretty good life in Greece, and that is reason enough, from their point of view, not to rock the boat too much I suppose.

They are representing the Macedonians, at the very least, symbolically.

Are you suggesting a new Macedonian based political party, like OMO Ilinden in Pirin ? It would end up in court ! But perhaps its worth a try?

The two groups have inspired Macedonians to a degree, but nowhere where any of us would like the Macedonians to be
I agree with everything Pelister wrote and also like to add that the Nashi listen too much to rumors, like Dedo lives in luxury, that Pavle and his party are spies and such.
Maybe a political party is the way to go, also I would like to see a group from the diaspora become involved, someone that is neutral, someone that does not work directly with Dedo or Pavle, but on its own so they can gauge the situation from everyday Macedonians and find out why these two sides are not where they should be.
What do you think is the answer Risto?

[Daskalot]

I think that alternatives are always a good thing. The more choices people have, the better the chance that they will find a good fit. If someone isn't comfortable with Vinozhito for example, but they are the only game in town, then that person is basically out of luck and might leave the movement altogether.

Good said El Bre, more options to spread the word are better then one.

[Risto the Great]

There should be a mechanism for celebrating the Macedonian culture in Greece without persecution. If we can sidestep the political aspects, it would have immediate acceptance. But that is probably a dream, this will never be allowed in a country still in the 19th century. But is worth testing.

[sydney]

Risto, what do your relatives in greece think? i have no direct family connection to egej so cannot go deeper to understand the degree of satisfaction people have with vinozito (for example).

that aside, vinozito has done a wonderful job to raise the profile of macedonians in greece.

[Risto the Great]

Truthfully, they think Vinozhoto leadership are criminals and resent that people like that are meant to be representing them. They do not have the support of their people. Simple.

[sydney]

what are these thoughts based on? it is concerning that the only mouthpiece for macedonians is considered criminal. such generalisations really aren't acceptable, considering there is no one else queueing up to fight the fight for maks in greece. it would suggest to outsiders that macedonians are happy with the status quo?

[Rogi]

It's based on rumour, but nonetheless very prevalent. I noticed this too Risto.
However, that said I also did notice that at the Ovcharani panagir, everyone there seemed to have a lot of respect for the Vinozito guys (who were there).

But overall, you're right.

I can't help but think that what we need is this:

1. Wealthy Macedonians getting in and spending their own money. This is needed to eliminate the non-trusting stigma, or at least minimise it.

2. Actually building things that can be seen. Buy an existing building and use it for specific purposes, like a private after-school Macedonian language school, etc.
Things on which value can be placed, things which can be seen.

3. Do things 'on the ground' not just in the EU/UN. Things like mass-distribution of flyers to every home in Lerinsko and Vodensko, etc. Print a magazine and hand it out (as much as possible) - in fact such a magazine did once exist in Aegean Macedonia. There's a whole range of grassroots stuff that should be done, if you want the people to see that you are actually doing something.


You see, other than the rumours, which are false... the reason why they become prevalent is because Vinozito's lobby efforts in the EU, UN, etc can't be seen by the average Macedonian in Aegean Macedonia and so they can't really put a value on their efforts and successes. So then they believe that all this money is coming in and someone is taking it, etc. That's a big problem.

So what's needed for the above? Funding. But if they came out with a plan saying:
"We need $X to purchase this property and turn it into a Macedonian Language School and employ a teacher".
"We need $X to create this Macedonian Cultural Dancing group and cover costumes, training, events and travel".
"We need $X to design, print, publish and distribute X amount of flyers/brochures throughout Aegean Macedonia".
"We need $X to publish a monthly magazine explaining who we are, what we do and what we've done".
"We need $X to maintain a local radio station in Lerinsko, Kostursko, Vodensko, etc".

When you have some detailed stuff with set goals, then there are a lot more people who will donate funds and the funding requirements for all of that can be met - the problem is to date we only say 'we need donations', 'we need funds' but without giving concrete information on what you will do with it... what you will achieve with it.

And even if the Greek Government destroyed every single one of those attempts to build the private school, create the dancing group, distribute the brochures, publish the magazine, maintain the local radio, etc ... then you have strong documentation to 1) Show your people exactly what's happening and 2) Strengthen your position in your other EU/UN lobby efforts.

I've got this impression in the back of my mind that right now the mainstream thought by some activists is to prove Greece wrong and show the world how wrong and bad Greece is, rather than the actual preservation of our language, culture and identity in Aegean Macedonia.

[Traveller]

It's based on rumour, but nonetheless very prevalent. I noticed this too Risto.
However, that said I also did notice that at the Ovcharani panagir, everyone there seemed to have a lot of respect for the Vinozito guys (who were there).

But overall, you're right.

I can't help but think that what we need is this:

1. Wealthy Macedonians getting in and spending their own money. This is needed to eliminate the non-trusting stigma, or at least minimise it.

2. Actually building things that can be seen. Buy an existing building and use it for specific purposes, like a private after-school Macedonian language school, etc.
Things on which value can be placed, things which can be seen.

3. Do things 'on the ground' not just in the EU/UN. Things like mass-distribution of flyers to every home in Lerinsko and Vodensko, etc. Print a magazine and hand it out (as much as possible) - in fact such a magazine did once exist in Aegean Macedonia. There's a whole range of grassroots stuff that should be done, if you want the people to see that you are actually doing something.


You see, other than the rumours, which are false... the reason why they become prevalent is because Vinozito's lobby efforts in the EU, UN, etc can't be seen by the average Macedonian in Aegean Macedonia and so they can't really put a value on their efforts and successes. So then they believe that all this money is coming in and someone is taking it, etc. That's a big problem.

So what's needed for the above? Funding. But if they came out with a plan saying:
"We need $X to purchase this property and turn it into a Macedonian Language School and employ a teacher".
"We need $X to create this Macedonian Cultural Dancing group and cover costumes, training, events and travel".
"We need $X to design, print, publish and distribute X amount of flyers/brochures throughout Aegean Macedonia".
"We need $X to publish a monthly magazine explaining who we are, what we do and what we've done".
"We need $X to maintain a local radio station in Lerinsko, Kostursko, Vodensko, etc".

When you have some detailed stuff with set goals, then there are a lot more people who will donate funds and the funding requirements for all of that can be met - the problem is to date we only say 'we need donations', 'we need funds' but without giving concrete information on what you will do with it... what you will achieve with it.

And even if the Greek Government destroyed every single one of those attempts to build the private school, create the dancing group, distribute the brochures, publish the magazine, maintain the local radio, etc ... then you have strong documentation to 1) Show your people exactly what's happening and 2) Strengthen your position in your other EU/UN lobby efforts.

I've got this impression in the back of my mind that right now the mainstream thought by some activists is to prove Greece wrong and show the world how wrong and bad Greece is, rather than the actual preservation of our language, culture and identity in Aegean Macedonia.

As for nr2 you cant have a school without the permission of the Education Minister. The guy that would bring such a petition to the minister would be ejected from the window...

As for nr3 if you mean Zora nobody was reading it so it vanished .
As for dancing groups you can make as many as you want, nobody forbids it.
As for radios THIS IS NOT BANANA REPUBLIC Mr! You must have permission to have a radio station. You are naif if you believe you 'll get one.
And i'll give you a tip.There is no critical mass of ethnic Macedonians in Greek macedonia. Vinozito took 3000 votes in Macedonia. As for Tsarknias he has no influence. The opposite. He is considered a disgusting person in Greece.

[El Bre]

HAHAHA Traveller, you wouldn't know a Macedonian if he came up and bit you in the ass. HAHAHAHA.

"the tiny island of Cuba" BLAH BLAH BLAH"

"2.5 million Greek Macedonians" BLAH BLAH BLAH


YAWN!!!!