Usage of Old Slavonic and Church Slavonic

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  • Delodephius
    Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 736

    Usage of Old Slavonic and Church Slavonic

    This is a list, or a time table, of how in different dialectical areas the Old (Church) Slavonic and after it Church Slavonic was used. Now Old Slavonic is the language used by Constantine (Cyril) and Methodius in Moravia. It is the language of the original translation of the Bible, of which today exist only four copies, three in Glagolitic and one in Cyrillic. It is the language they used to translate various religious texts and some secular ones. Most today exist in later copies written by scribes who were not familiar with Old Slavonic language and therefore these copies also have features of scribes' languages, but the original can be reconstructed without much difficulty.
    Church Slavonic has a much longer history and it is the language used today in Slavonic Orthodox Churches. It is different than Old Slavonic which ceased to be used around the later half of the 11th century and as I said exists only in copies. There exists not one Church Slavonic language, although in most Orthodox Churches the Russian version is used. Church Slavonic is based on local dialects of the scribes and it is based on Old Slavonic to an extent. It did not fully evolved from it, it is basically a mixture of Old Slavonic and local dialects or a recension of Old Slavonic.

    The table shows the time period in which a certain version of the Old Slavonic and Church Slavonic was in use, what alphabet was used and of what rite were the texts.


    Old Slavonic
    - texts are usually named after the place they were found or by the person that found them, and some texts are named after the scribe or the author.

    Old Pannonian
    - early 9th century;
    - Latin alphabet;
    - Western rite;
    - texts: only the Freising manuscripts.

    Old Moravian
    - since 863 AD to the late 10th century at least;
    - Glagolitic alphabet (round form);
    - both Western and Eastern rite, predominantly Western;
    - texts: the Kiev missal and the Prague fragments.

    Old Macedonian (original Old Slavonic)
    - since around 886 AD until 11th c. AD (since then Church Slavonic);
    - exclusively Glagolitic alphabet (round form);
    - mostly/only Eastern rite;
    - texts: Codex Zographiensis, Codex Assemanius, Psalterium Sinaiticum, Euchologium Sinaiticum, Glagolita Clozianus, Ohrid Folios, Rila Folios, and in Cyrillic the Zographos Fragments and the Inscription of Tsar Samuil.

    Old Bulgarian
    - since around 886 AD until 11th c. AD (since then Church Slavonic);
    - Cyrillic alphabet;
    - mosly/only Eastern rite;
    - texts: Savva's book, Codex Suprasliensis, Enina Apostol, Hilandar Folios, Macedonian Folio, Undolskij's Fragments, Sluck Psalter.

    Church Slavonic
    - texts in the various dialects of Church Slavonic number in thousands and are of both sacral and secular form.

    Croatian Church Slavonic
    - since 10th century until early 20th century (since then vernacular and sometimes Latin);
    - exclusively Glagolitic (angular and cursive forms), but also Latin and Bosnian Cyrillic;
    - Western rite;
    - texts: oldest is the Baška tablet.

    Russian Church Slavonic
    - since mid-10th c. AD (around 945 AD) until today;
    - Cyrillic alphabet;
    - Eastern rite;
    - texts: oldest notable are the Ostromir gospel and the Tale of bygone days (Povest' vremenych let).

    Serbian Church Slavonic (Srpskoslovenski)
    - since 10th century at least until 18th century (since then Russian Church Slavonic);
    - exclusively/only Cyrillic alphabet;
    - early on both Western and Eastern rite, after only Eastern rite;
    - texts: oldest are in Glagolitic: Codex Marianus, Grašković fragment, Mihanović fragment; all the rest are in Cyrillic: Miroslav's Gospel, Vukan's Gospel, Humač tablet (could be Croatian), Temnić inscription, and other fragments, the Law of Tzar Dušan in several manuscripts also, the translation of the Alexandrida, The Book of Enoch, etc.

    This is not a complete list, but only something I'm trying to systematise.
    Last edited by Delodephius; 05-18-2009, 02:42 PM.
    अयं निज: परो वेति गणना लघुचेतसाम्।
    उदारमनसानां तु वसुधैव कुटुंबकम्॥
    This is mine or (somebody) else’s (is the way) narrow minded people count.
    But for broad minded people, (whole) earth is (like their) family.
  • Sarafot
    Member
    • Dec 2008
    • 616

    #2
    Tomas can you edit this in wikipedia you have references and knowlege?
    Ние македонците не сме ни срби, ни бугари, туку просто Македонци. Ние ги симпатизираме и едните и другите, кој ќе не ослободи, нему ќе му речеме благодарам, но србите и бугарите нека не забораваат дека Македонија е само за Македонците.
    - Борис Сарафов, 2 септември 1902

    Comment

    • Delodephius
      Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 736

      #3
      Actually, even though the names of the manuscripts are the same as in Wikipedia, most information (like dates) I got from a book I have "Starosloviensky jazyk" by Ján Stanislav, plus three books in Serbian. The information in them is pretty much the same as in Wikipedia. The only convenience was that Wikipedia has a somewhat complete list of manuscripts, and some of them mixed up to be honest.

      I see Wikipedia as a sort of a notepad rather than credible information. I start from Wikipedia and then add and correct by using less doubtful sources. That's more like abusing rather than using Wikipedia.
      Last edited by Delodephius; 05-15-2009, 03:57 AM.
      अयं निज: परो वेति गणना लघुचेतसाम्।
      उदारमनसानां तु वसुधैव कुटुंबकम्॥
      This is mine or (somebody) else’s (is the way) narrow minded people count.
      But for broad minded people, (whole) earth is (like their) family.

      Comment

      • Delodephius
        Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 736

        #4
        I started this GooglePage some time ago:


        I'll be posting texts in Old Church Slavonic there, trying to reconstruct the original appearance of the texts as far as I my knowledge permits, since most texts are later copies (original OCS texts are from the 2nd half of the 9th century, but the earliest manuscripts known to date are from the 10th century, so they are copies not originals, which is kinda obvious from the style and the language of the texts too). So far I have a couple of texts half ready, but if anyone has a request, like a Bible chapter I'll post it there, or here and there too, immediately.
        अयं निज: परो वेति गणना लघुचेतसाम्।
        उदारमनसानां तु वसुधैव कुटुंबकम्॥
        This is mine or (somebody) else’s (is the way) narrow minded people count.
        But for broad minded people, (whole) earth is (like their) family.

        Comment

        • Soldier of Macedon
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 13670

          #5
          Slovak, when you get a chance, put some OCS text here which show the various grammatical cases in action, as I think it would be beneficial to have examples of them as they would appear in full sentences. If there are differences between the Macedonian and Moravian types, post both examples. Thanks.
          In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

          Comment

          • Delodephius
            Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 736

            #6
            Well if you're interested in seeing how different cases work, you could check out these:
            Liberal Arts at UT offers over 40 majors and many top-ranked graduate programs in the social sciences and humanities taught by 750 faculty.

            Scroll down for the texts. They analyse each word so you can see what case it is in.

            As for the difference between Macedonian and Moravian type, a few years ago I made a short collection of words that were different. The differences are mainly phonological, and the grammar is pretty much the same, except Moravians preferred some forms over other, like using the infinitive over the da+verb constructions like in Macedonian (eg. pisati VS da pišǫ, etc.).

            Here is the list:
            (ä,jä - ѣ, ǐ - ь, ǔ - ъ)

            Moravian - Macedonian - English
            cirǔky - cǐrky - church
            kružǐ, križǐ - krǐstǔ - cross
            rasponǔ, raspętie - propętie - crucifix
            raspęti - propęti - to crucify
            otǔpustiti - ostaviti - to forgive
            vǐšǐgǔdy, vǐšǐdäjǐši - nasǫštǐnyjǐ - daily (as in daily bread)
            rozumǔ - razumǔ - mind
            nocǐ - noštǐ - night
            pica - pišta - food
            pomocǐ - pomoštǐ - help
            mocǐ - moštǐ - power
            medzä - mežda - border
            pecǐ - peštǐ - furnace
            rozǐstvo - roždǐstvo - birthday
            tuzǐ - tuždǐ - foreign
            vidäti, vizǫ - vidäti, viždǫ - to see, I see
            tamǐze - tamǐže - over there
            äkoze - äkože - as if
            očiščenije - očištenije - cleansing
            zaščititi - zaštititi - to protect
            ščitǔ - štitǔ - shield (lat. scutum)
            sǫdišče - sǫdište - courthouse
            mydło - myło - soap
            modliti sę, modljǫ - moliti sę, moljǫ - to pray, I pray
            radlo - ralo - plough
            svętidlǔna - svętilǔna - lighthouse
            vǔsedljena, -ny - vǔseljenajä, -nyję - universe

            Some words that appear only in Moravian, mainly taken from the Western rite:
            mǐšä - mass
            vǔsǫdǔ - judgment
            opłatǔ - wafer
            papežǔ - pope
            poganǐskǔ - pagan
            präfacijä - preface
            Last edited by Delodephius; 03-14-2011, 06:58 AM.
            अयं निज: परो वेति गणना लघुचेतसाम्।
            उदारमनसानां तु वसुधैव कुटुंबकम्॥
            This is mine or (somebody) else’s (is the way) narrow minded people count.
            But for broad minded people, (whole) earth is (like their) family.

            Comment

            • Delodephius
              Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 736

              #7
              A note: the Old Slavonic ǔ (ъ) and ǐ (ь) at the end of words in most cases evolved from Indo-European -us/-os and -is/-es respectively. So some 2000 years ago the Proto-Slavic language, if it already existed at that point, or at least the languages that merged to form Proto-Slavic later, had word endings much similar to those in Greek, Latin or like in modern Baltic languages. For example, dom (house), OCS domǔ < PS domos, vlk (wolf), OCS vlǐkǔ < PS vlǐkos, breg (hill), OCS bergǔ < PS bergos, sin (son), OCS synǔ < PS synos, etc.
              In other cases ǔ (ъ) evolved from Indo-European -on. I can't think of any examples right now, but I'll have a book at home with some of them.
              Last edited by Delodephius; 03-14-2011, 06:19 AM.
              अयं निज: परो वेति गणना लघुचेतसाम्।
              उदारमनसानां तु वसुधैव कुटुंबकम्॥
              This is mine or (somebody) else’s (is the way) narrow minded people count.
              But for broad minded people, (whole) earth is (like their) family.

              Comment

              • Soldier of Macedon
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 13670

                #8
                Originally posted by Slovak/Anomaly/Tomas View Post
                A note: the Old Slavonic ǔ (ъ) and ǐ (ь) at the end of words in most cases evolved from Indo-European -us/-os and -is/-es respectively. So some 2000 years ago the Proto-Slavic language, if it already existed at that point, or at least the languages that merged to form Proto-Slavic later, had word endings much similar to those in Greek, Latin or like in modern Baltic languages. For example, dom (house), OCS domǔ < PS domos, vlk (wolf), OCS vlǐkǔ < PS vlǐkos, breg (hill), OCS bergǔ < PS bergos, sin (son), OCS synǔ < PS synos, etc.
                In other cases ǔ (ъ) evolved from Indo-European -on. I can't think of any examples right now, but I'll have a book at home with some of them.
                That is correct, the only problem is that there are no proper sentences that have survived from a Paleo-Balkan language, which means those word endings would probably be limited to nominative and genitive cases. The rest of the grammar would need to be reconstructed.

                Speaking of cases, I remember you once posted Thracian first and second names, and the second one's had the genitive ending -ou, not sure where you obtained the information from. Do you recall? If so, please post them on the forum.
                In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                Comment

                • Delodephius
                  Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 736

                  #9
                  I remember that. The post however is lost, but I remember it was about some commemorative stone with names of the athletes inscribed. Most of the athletes that were listed as being from Thrace had surnames ending in -ou which reminded me of Slavic surnames in -ov. It however turned out that the Genitive-Possessive case in both Slavic and Greek does end in -ou/-ov in some words, for example N. vol (ox), G. volov; N. syn (son), G. synov, etc. It could mean that the same was true for Thracian.
                  अयं निज: परो वेति गणना लघुचेतसाम्।
                  उदारमनसानां तु वसुधैव कुटुंबकम्॥
                  This is mine or (somebody) else’s (is the way) narrow minded people count.
                  But for broad minded people, (whole) earth is (like their) family.

                  Comment

                  • osiris
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 1969

                    #10
                    It would be interesting comparing 9th century Macedonian with the surviving Thracian words.

                    Comment

                    • Delodephius
                      Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 736

                      #11
                      Hm, my mistake. The masculine words in OCS in Genitive case end in -u, which would be the equivalent of the pronunciation of Greek -ou. The -ov suffix then must of a different origin, or perhaps it derives from the same one as the Genitive -u. Genitive was used both in Greek and Latin for possessives.
                      अयं निज: परो वेति गणना लघुचेतसाम्।
                      उदारमनसानां तु वसुधैव कुटुंबकम्॥
                      This is mine or (somebody) else’s (is the way) narrow minded people count.
                      But for broad minded people, (whole) earth is (like their) family.

                      Comment

                      • Soldier of Macedon
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 13670

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Slovak/Anomaly/Tomas View Post
                        I remember that. The post however is lost, but I remember it was about some commemorative stone with names of the athletes inscribed. Most of the athletes that were listed as being from Thrace had surnames ending in -ou which reminded me of Slavic surnames in -ov. It however turned out that the Genitive-Possessive case in both Slavic and Greek does end in -ou/-ov in some words, for example N. vol (ox), G. volov; N. syn (son), G. synov, etc. It could mean that the same was true for Thracian.
                        I think that was the situation - that Thracian and Greek both used it, and that Slavic -ov derives from the same origin. I have also seen examples of Illyrian names during Roman times with the -is ending for both nominative and genitive, although it is hard to determine if these case endings were still used at this point or if the names were merely rendered in Roman 'style'.
                        In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                        Comment

                        • Onur
                          Senior Member
                          • Apr 2010
                          • 2389

                          #13
                          I`ve came across an interesting book on the web called "The Sumerian and Ural-Altaic elements in the Old Slavic language". It`s written in 1979 by an Hungarian linguist named "Sandor Csöke".

                          It`s total of 135 pages and compares old church slavonic with all Uralic-Altaic languages and eventually with Sumerian. Here are some pages of it;












                          You can download the PDF of the book here;
                          http://www.magtudin.org/Csoke%20-%20Sumerian,%20Ural-Altaic.pdf

                          Comment

                          • Delodephius
                            Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 736

                            #14
                            You'll no doubt find more of similarities between Ural-Altaic and Indo-Iranian languages than with Slavic. The Nostratic theory is still not dead though.
                            अयं निज: परो वेति गणना लघुचेतसाम्।
                            उदारमनसानां तु वसुधैव कुटुंबकम्॥
                            This is mine or (somebody) else’s (is the way) narrow minded people count.
                            But for broad minded people, (whole) earth is (like their) family.

                            Comment

                            • Soldier of Macedon
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 13670

                              #15
                              I don't know how seriously to take the suggestion that words such as 'glagol', 'glas', 'nikoi' and 'voivoda' are Ural-Altaic. What exactly is the point that this author is trying to make, that Slavic languages are really Ural-Altaic, or that they have been influenced to such a degree by the latter?

                              Looking at the word 'glas', I would chance to say it has more to do with the more archaic Baltic words 'balso' (b -> g) and 'garso' (r -> l) rather than 'kele' in Mongolian. Then again, Mongols use words like 'korum' for a mountain (compare to 'gora' in Slavic and 'horos' in Greek). Perhaps during the early stages of the linguistic formation of PIE there was interaction with Ural-Altaic groups, but how would one determine the true origin of such words that 'appear' common in both groups?

                              Something else that is interesting in Slavic languages, we have seen the following relevant words:

                              : Glava (head)
                              : Glas (voice)
                              : Glagoli (speak)

                              For arguments sake, these words could probably pass as 'centum' words - without the devoiced consonant g -> k, but when we 'satemise' the first letter, the following relevant words appear:

                              : Slava (fame, worship, glory)
                              : Slovo (word)
                              : Slusha (listen)
                              : Sloga (unity)
                              : Sluzhi (serve)
                              In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                              Comment

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