The Ilinden Uprising

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  • Soldier of Macedon
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 13675

    #46
    Originally posted by Mastika
    This however ut is an issue that the community themselves will have to adress
    Macedonia does more than enough to ensure that the Vlach minority has adequate resources to maintain their culture, language, traditions, etc. Anything more and it will look like they are being shown favour over the other minorities. What exactly is Macedonia not doing enough of, that is done for other minorities? (Please exclude the extra privileged ethnic Albanian minority that secured 'more rights' after terrorists among their population made war upon Macedonia and were rewarded for their actions by the West).

    Macedonia can't be blamed if the Vlach's themselves don't utilise that which is provided to them (if that is actually the case). Are you a Vlach, Mastika?
    In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

    Comment

    • Big Bad Sven
      Senior Member
      • Jan 2009
      • 1528

      #47
      Krusevo is the only city in the world that has vlach as one of the official languages i believe.

      The vlach are very good people in macedonia, ideal minorities that trash like the shiptars should look to for insperation.

      If the vlach people are slowly being assimilated into being macedonians then the blame can only be with them, but in saying that the vlach have always been people that have always assimilated with the larger majority in the balkans.
      Maybe the Vlach dont see the assimilation with macedonians as a bad thing as they are pretty much macedonians anyway.

      And as others have said, Krusevo is something special. It was my favourite place to visit in macedonia. Hoping more money and tourists come to Krusevo and that it never looses its magical old school feel and charm.

      Comment

      • Risto the Great
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 15660

        #48
        Just edited the title of the thread.
        I see no need for Macedonians to refer to this town as "Crushuva".
        If the Vlachs want to do that, they can do it on a Vlach forum. I am sure "pear" in Vlach has nothing to do with "krusha"
        Risto the Great
        MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
        "Holding my breath for the revolution."

        Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

        Comment

        • Prolet
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2009
          • 5241

          #49
          Risto, Did you know that there is a Krushevo in Croatia too?

          Krusevo google map. Satellite image of Krusevo, Croatia and near destinations. Travel deals.


          SOM, Are you from Vlasko Poteklo by any chance? Bitola has by far the most Vlach Villages especially in the Pelister region. Magarevo,Trnovo, Nize Pole are ones that come of the top of my head but the main cities where there are Vlachs in Macedonia are Skopje,Bitola,Prilep,Stip and Struga thats without adding Krushevo to the list.
          МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

          Comment

          • Soldier of Macedon
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 13675

            #50
            Lol.......
            In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

            Comment

            • Mastika
              Member
              • Feb 2010
              • 503

              #51
              Originally posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
              Macedonia does more than enough to ensure that the Vlach minority has adequate resources to maintain their culture, language, traditions, etc. Anything more and it will look like they are being shown favour over the other minorities. What exactly is Macedonia not doing enough of, that is done for other minorities? (Please exclude the extra privileged ethnic Albanian minority that secured 'more rights' after terrorists among their population made war upon Macedonia and were rewarded for their actions by the West).

              Macedonia can't be blamed if the Vlach's themselves don't utilise that which is provided to them (if that is actually the case). Are you a Vlach, Mastika?
              It is not just about them not utilising their minority rights (I did however remember reading that the Macedonian Orthodox Church does not permit services in Aromanian, can anybody confirm or deny this?). There are many more factors here at play. Intermarriage has greatly resulted in the loss of culture. So too has the desertion of basically all of the Aromanian villages in the Republic of Macedonia. They are all shadows of their former self, so too is the Vlasko malo in Bitola.

              Here is a basic list showing the population of the Vlach villages/settlements in 1900 and in 2002.

              Magarevo; 1900- 2,400 Aromanians, 2002- 87: 62 Macedonians*, 24 Vlachs
              Nize Pole; 1900 - 1,590 Aromanians, 250 Albanians, 190 Macedonians, 2002- 186: 105 Vlachs, 30 Albanians, 4 Turks, 47 Macedonians
              Tnovo; 1900- 2,400 Aromanians, 50 Albanians, 2002- 278: 146 Macedonians*, 82 Albanians, 48 Vlachs
              Gopes; 1900- 2,460 Aromanians, 2002- uninhabited
              Magarevo; 1900 - 2,300 Aromanians, 2002- 98: 87 Vlachs, 10 Macedonians*
              Gorna Belica; 1900 - 850 Aromanians, 150 Albanians, 2002 - Uninhabited
              Dolna Belica; 1900 - 650 Aromanians, 50 Albanians, 2002 1026: 17 Macedonians*, 945 Albanians, 24 Vlachs, 38 Others
              Krusevo; 1900- 4,950 Macedonians, 4,000 Aromanians, 400 Albanians, 2002- 5330: 4,273 Macedonians, 1,020 Vlachs, 26 Serbs, 11 Others.
              Bitola; 1900- est. 7,000 Aromanians, 2002- 997 Vlachs.

              *(includes many Aromanians) [the numbers

              So basically in 1900 the main settlements had approx. 23,650 Vlachs now only officially 2,305 Aromanians exist in these places! This doesnt include the number of Aromanians throughout other cities in the RoM (the same source gives a total of 38,882 for all regions throughout RoM in 1900).

              I am aware that migration to cities and abroad have taken its toll, and in the case of Gopes, devestation during wartime, but across the whole country "officially" there are only 9595 Vlasi of whom only 6884 have Aromanian as their mother language. I find this extremely hard to believe.

              I think that it is shame for any culture or language to be lost even if these people want to be more Macedonian. One should always be proud of their own cultural heritage first and then that of their country. SOM, to answer your question no I am not Aromanian however I have number of family members who have married into Aromanian families. Bun noate (I'm sure you can guess what that means Risto, it doesnt have to be a Vlach forum ).

              Comment

              • Prolet
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2009
                • 5241

                #52
                Mastika, Did you know that 26th of May is the national day for the Vlasi? Two days after Sveti Kiril I Metodija. If you are a declared Vlav, you get the day off.
                МАКЕДОНЕЦ си кога кавал ќе ти ја распара душата,зурла ќе ти го раскине срцето,кога секое влакно од кожата ќе ти се наежи кога ќе видиш шеснаесеткрако сонце,кога до коска ќе те заболи кога ќе слушнеш ПЈРМ,кога немаш ни за леб,а полн си во душата затоа што ја сакаш МАКЕДОНИЈА. МАКЕДОНИЈА во срце те носиме.

                Comment

                • indigen
                  Senior Member
                  • May 2009
                  • 1558

                  #53
                  Ilinden Uprising Reports by Sydney Morning Herald, 1903

                  THE REBELLION IN MACEDONIA – Excerpts from telegrams:

                  INSURGENT POSITION STORMED, FLIGHT BEFORE ARTILLERY FIRE
                  LONDON, Aug. 31.
                  Advices which have been received at Salonika state that Servet Pasha, with six battalions, stormed a position held by 3000 Macedonians at Smilevo. 1000 Macedonians were killed, and the remaineder fled before the artillery fire of the Turks.

                  --------------------

                  SMH - August 14, 1903:
                  TURKISH TROOPS SURROUNDED
                  London, August 12

                  A body of insurgents surrounds 200 turkish troops at Dirgje.

                  Fourty six Macedonians have been killed in fighting at Okrida (Ohrid).

                  There have been sanguinary encounters between Kutzo-Wallach (Vlach) and Greek bands.

                  ------------------

                  The Sydney Morning Herald, Friday, August 21, 1903:
                  THE KRUSHEVO FIGHTING – HEAVY LOSSES LONDON, Aug. 20.
                  In the fighting at Krushevo the revolutionists lost 60 killed and 12 wounded. They then left the vicinity. The casualties of the Turkish troops numbered 250.


                  GREEK SYMPATHY FOR TURKEY
                  London, Aug. 20.

                  The GREEK GOVERNMENT, the GREEK METROPOLITAN and the PEOPLE of GREECE ARE IN ACTIVE SYMPATHY WITH the TURKS.

                  -----------------

                  The Sydney Morning Herald, Tuesday, September 1, 1903:

                  INSURGENT POSITION STORMED, FLIGHT BEFORE ARTILLERY FIRE
                  LONDON, Aug. 31.
                  Advices which have been received at Salonika state that Servet Pasha, with six battalions, stormed a position held by 3000 Macedonians at Smilevo. 1000 Macedonians were killed, and the remaineder fled before the artillery fire of the Turks.


                  SMH - September1, 1903:
                  HOLY WAR URGED
                  LONDON, Aug. 31.

                  Fanatics in the Tetovo and Kostovo districts, near Uskub, urge Moslems to prepare for a holy war against Christians.

                  [The Koran, the sacred book of the Moslems, enjoins the making of war on infidels. To spur the believers on it is ordained that he who is slain while fighting in defence of and for the propagation of Islam is a martyr, while a deserter from the holy war (jehad) is held up as an object of execration, and has forfeited his life in this world as well as in the world to come.]

                  INSURGENT SUCCESS
                  LONDON August 31
                  Four hundred MACEDONIANS surprised the village of Setina and killed 189 (turkish) soldiers.

                  For fair use only.
                  Last edited by indigen; 05-06-2010, 05:04 AM.

                  Comment

                  • Risto the Great
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 15660

                    #54
                    Isn't it lovely that Greece can shed a tear for Turkey only when it comes to killing Macedonians. A consistent theme from Greece.
                    Risto the Great
                    MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                    "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                    Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                    Comment

                    • Soldier of Macedon
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 13675

                      #55
                      The GREEK GOVERNMENT, the GREEK METROPOLITAN and the PEOPLE of GREECE ARE IN ACTIVE SYMPATHY WITH the TURKS.
                      The above says it all.
                      In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                      Comment

                      • indigen
                        Senior Member
                        • May 2009
                        • 1558

                        #56
                        SMH, AUGUST 15, 1903

                        THE REBELLION IN MACEDONIA.
                        -----
                        EFFECTS OF BRITISH POLICY.
                        --
                        A GOOD IMPRESSION.
                        --
                        LONDON, Aug. 14.
                        The speech in the House of Commons by
                        Mr. A. J. Balfour, the Prime Minister,
                        outlining the policy which Great Britain
                        desired to have carried out in Macedonia,
                        has created a good impression at
                        Constantinople and other capitals of the
                        continent.
                        -----

                        SUCCES NOT ANTICIPATED
                        --
                        LONDON, Aug. 14.
                        Bulgaria is watching the insurrection in
                        Macedonia with interest, but she has no
                        expectation of its success.
                        -----

                        A REASSURIN STATEMENT.
                        --
                        PUNISHMENT OF MILITARY EXCESSES.
                        --
                        LONDON, Aug. 14.
                        The Marquis of Lansdowne, the Secretary of
                        State for Foreign Affairs, speaking in the
                        House of Lords last night in reply to a
                        question from Earl Spencer, made a reassuring
                        statement based on despatches from Sir N.
                        O'Connor, the British Ambassador at
                        Constantinople. These despatches showed that
                        it was the determination of the Porte to
                        repress and punish military excesses.
                        ------

                        ARRESTS IN BULGARIA
                        --
                        LONDON, Aug. 14.
                        The Bulgarian police have arrested Colonel
                        Zontcheff and M. Jankoff, two of the leaders
                        of the.........agitation in Macedonia, near
                        the frontier, to prevent them joining the
                        revolutionists.
                        ---------


                        SMH, AUGUST 17, 1903

                        THE REBELLION IN MACEDONIA.
                        ------
                        THE BLACK SEA FLEET.
                        --
                        MOVING TOWARDS TURKISH WATERS.
                        --

                        LONDON, Aug. 16.
                        A squadron of the Russian Black Sea fleet
                        has sailed for Turkish waters.
                        ------

                        MEMORIAL FROM BULGARIA.
                        --
                        TURKEY'S MISDEEDS.
                        --
                        HOPLESSNESS OF GOOD REULTS
                        --
                        LONDON, Aug. 15.
                        Bulgaria is presenting to the Powers a
                        memorial containing an enumeration of the
                        misdeeds committed by Moslems on the
                        Christians of the Turkish vilayets bordering
                        Bulgaria and the hopelessness of expecting any
                        good from the so-called reforms initiated by
                        Turkey.
                        ------

                        THE MASSACRES.
                        --
                        MUTUAL RECRIMINATIONS.
                        --
                        LONDON, Aug. 15.
                        Turks and Macedonians mutually accuse each
                        other of committing massacres of their
                        opponents.


                        The instances given include massacres of
                        Christians at Kitchevo and of Moslems at
                        Krushevo. Turkish troops, after the massacre,
                        succeeded in reoccupying the later place.


                        Advices from Belgrade, Servia, state that Turks
                        have been guilty of horrible atrocities in
                        villages near Monastir. The Turks have destroyed
                        14 villages in the Uskub and Veles districts.


                        [Veles(Koprulu) is situated on the Vardar, 27
                        miles south-east by east of Uskub. At Krushevo,
                        which is 23 miles north by west of Monastir,
                        bands destroyed the Kopak (palace) with
                        dynamite and killed 50 Turks. After the occupation
                        of Kitchevo by the Turks they were unsuccessfully
                        attacked by insurgents.]
                        ------

                        POWER'S DEMANDS.
                        --
                        PROTECTION FOR CONSULS.
                        --
                        LONDON, Aug. 15.
                        The Ambassadors at Constantinople have demanded of
                        the Porte measures for the protection of consuls
                        and foreign subjects in the Monastir district owing
                        to Moslem population demanding arms, ostensibly for
                        self-defence.


                        [The Turkish officials at Uskub lately distributed
                        5000 rifles among the Mohammedan population, which
                        then threatened the Christians with massacres. No
                        doubt the Turks have acted similarly in the Monastir
                        district.]

                        --------

                        AMMUNITION FOR MACEDONIA.
                        --
                        DISGUISED AS HARDWARE.
                        --
                        LONDON, Aug. 15.
                        The Customs officials at Belgrade, Servia, have
                        confiscated a quantity of ammunition which was
                        packed in cases and disguised by being labelled
                        hardware and nails.

                        The ammunition was destined for Macedonia.
                        --------

                        TURKISH VILLAGERS MASSACRED.
                        --
                        ISURRECTION SPREADING.
                        --
                        WOMEN FIGHTING.
                        --
                        LONDON, Aug. 14.
                        Turkish advices state that all the inhabitants
                        except 20 of the Turkish village of Konali, near
                        Monastir, have been massacred.

                        Extraordinary reports have been received from
                        Salonika stating that the insurrection is spreading
                        eastwards, that women are participating in the
                        fighting, and that the Austrian Consul there has
                        been threatened.


                        The English newspapers demand the publication of
                        the reports of the British Consuls in the
                        disaffected districts.
                        -----------

                        RUSSAIN CONSUL'S MURDERER.
                        --
                        THE GUILTY EXECUTED.
                        --
                        LONDON, Aug. 15.
                        The gendarme Halim, the murderer of M. Rostowsky,
                        the Russian Consul at Monastir, has been sentenced to
                        death and hanged, together with an accomplice who did
                        not interfere to prevent the crime.

                        Another gendarme in connection with the same
                        offence received a sentence of 15 years penal
                        servitude.
                        --------

                        DESTRUCTION OF A BRIDGE.
                        --
                        LONDON, Aug. 15.
                        A bridge on the Monastir railway line has been
                        destroyed by dynamite.
                        ---------

                        ---------

                        THE SITUATION DESPERATE.
                        --
                        REBELS PLUNDERING EVERYWHERE.
                        --
                        LONDON, Aug. 16.
                        Reports from Viena are to the effect that the situation
                        in Macedonia is desperate. The Porte is incapable of
                        restoring order. Strong bands of rebels are
                        plundering villages and firing houses everywhere.
                        ----------------

                        For fair use only.

                        Comment

                        • indigen
                          Senior Member
                          • May 2009
                          • 1558

                          #57

                          smh_aug_12_1903_telegrams.jpg

                          NB: Photobucket.com unfortunately automatically rezied the original file from approx 200kb down to approx 60kb and may not be very readable.

                          Comment

                          • Onur
                            Senior Member
                            • Apr 2010
                            • 2389

                            #58
                            Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                            Isn't it lovely that Greece can shed a tear for Turkey only when it comes to killing Macedonians. A consistent theme from Greece.

                            Nah, it just shows how big lie is the so-called religious brotherhood. It was always a myth and easily forgotten when it comes to political benefit and such.

                            We observed the same thing for muslims when Arabs did sellout us for the benefit of British. Russians did the same thing too, when their so-called Orthodox brothers, Greeks invaded Anatolia, Russians said "People of Russia are in active sympathy with the Turks".


                            Btw, it`s sad to read all these quotes. It doesn't look like a war but looks like a civil war instead cuz ordinary people killing each other too and it`s portrayed as christians vs muslims!, sigh...

                            Comment

                            • indigen
                              Senior Member
                              • May 2009
                              • 1558

                              #60
                              SMH,8 Aug 1903 - Telegrams.

                              The Balkans
                              -------------

                              Revolution in Macedonia
                              ---
                              Repressive Measures
                              ---
                              London, Aug. 6.

                              The Council of Turkish Ministers at Constantinople
                              has decided to adopt measures of extreme severity
                              to suppress the revolution at Monastir [Bitola], and
                              also to employ Albanian troops, which will inevitably
                              lead to massacres.

                              --------------


                              Precautions in Bulgaria.
                              ----
                              London, Aug. 7.

                              The Bulgarian Government is trying to prevent ammunition
                              passing the frontier into Macedonia.

                              It is feared in Vienna that the Balkan trouble is entering
                              into a critical phase.
                              ----------

                              ARMENIA
                              ----
                              A Serious Allegation
                              ----
                              London, Aug. 6.

                              The Russian Ambassador to Turkey, M. Zinovieff, has made
                              strong representation to the Porte to the effect that the
                              Kurds are adopting a menacing attitude, and that the
                              authorities are secretly arming the Kurds while endeavouring
                              to prove that the Armenians have a revolutionary intention.

                              -------------


                              SMH, Monday, August 10, 1903

                              The Balkans
                              ---------

                              A Premature Outbreak
                              ---
                              London, Aug. 7.

                              Consular despatches from Monastir [Bitola] state that the
                              insurrection broke out a fortnight earlier than was originally
                              intended, matters having been precipitated by chiefs of the
                              bands concerned in it becoming disconcerted at the preventative
                              measures adopted by the authorities....The Porte, owing to the
                              impoverishment of the Treasury, is unable to accede to the
                              demands of the railway companies for an increase to 20,000
                              of the guards detailed for the protection of the railways.
                              --------------

                              RESERVES INSUBORDINATE
                              ------
                              London, Aug. 8.

                              Turkish Redifs (Army Reserves) in Macedonia are discontented,
                              and are insubordinate. Many of them have deserted, and have
                              sold their arms to the insurgents.
                              ---------------


                              THE BALKANS' INSURRECTION
                              ---------

                              Employment of Bashi Bazouks
                              -----
                              London, Aug. 9.

                              The Bulgarian Government has asked the Powers to influence
                              the Porte not to employ the Bashi-Bouzouks in suppressing
                              the rebellion in the vilayet of Monastir [Bitola].
                              ---------

                              SMH, Aug 11, 1903.

                              The Balkans Insurrection.
                              -----------

                              The Powers Pressure.
                              ---
                              Decisive Actions Urged.
                              ---
                              London, Aug. 10.

                              The "Times" says that since the reform settlement of
                              Macedonia pressed upon Turkey by Austria and Russia
                              has failed, it is urgently necessary that those two
                              Powers should consider whether they ought to longer
                              refrain from taking more decisive steps.
                              -----------

                              OUTBREAK SPREADING
                              ---
                              London, Aug. 10.

                              The insurrection in the Balkans is spreading in the
                              direction of Salonika and Uskub [Skopje].
                              --------------

                              TROOPS FOR MANASTIR [BITOLA]
                              ---
                              London, Aug. 10.

                              Omar Pasha is leading 16 battalions from Presend
                              [Prizren, Kosovo] to Monastir [Bitola], and is
                              mobilising 24 fresh battalions of reserves in the
                              Salonika district.

                              ----------

                              TWENTY THOUSAND INSURGENTS.
                              ----
                              WELL-ARMED, MONEY PLENTIFUL.
                              ----
                              London, Aug. 9.

                              Ten thousand insurgents, in four camps, are operating
                              in the neighbourhood of Monastir [Bitola], and 10,000
                              around Kastoria [Kostur], which is situated 36 miles
                              to the south of Monastir [Bitola].
                              The insurgents are
                              reported to be well armed and to have plenty of money.

                              Anticipating the arranged rising by three weeks, the
                              insurgents caught the Turks napping.
                              -----------

                              RUSSIAN CONSUL SHOT.
                              ---
                              London, Aug. 9.
                              A Turkish gendarme yesterday shot M. Rostovsky, the
                              Russian Consul at Monastir [Bitola], in an altercation
                              arising out of an omission to salute him.


                              Last edited by indigen; 10-16-2010, 04:06 AM.

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