Due to the Emblem on Zito Prilep, Greek side forfeits woman's handball match

[Frank]

As many churches and monestaries in Macedonia that have this emblem, you can find just as many here.

TLWR it isnt a question that needs to be asked all those churches he refers to are Macedonian Orthodox Churches the Greeks Whitewashed and Destroyed over the course of the Century

It is called cultural Genocide

[The LION will ROAR]

Voltron
As many churches and monestaries in Macedonia that have this emblem, you can find just as many here.

Can you please show us..?

Could you also show us the evidence that I ask you to..stop avoiding the actual Questions..?
I bet you can't..because it doesn't exist... One must ask why not...
WHY IS IT SO HARD FOR A MODERN GREEK TO PROVIDE THESE ANSWERS...
COME ON VOLTRON...IT'S A SIMPLE QUESTION PUT FORWARD FOR SIMPLE PEOPLE

[fyrOM]

Here is one I posted in another thread, just because Im too lazy right now to find more.



Some will say it was only for decorative purposes. Ok, so what and the one on the box of Vergina wasnt ? " There are also depictions of ancient Greek hoplites bearing identical sixteen-pointed and similar eight-pointed symbols on their armours and shields as early as the 6th century BC "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vergina_Sun

Its really a stupid argument. Its like some Canadian plastering a flag of George Washington to offend us Americans. Whenever Greece plays Macedonia they both should wear the emblem to play if it makes them feel any better.

Voltron given that 51 percent of Macedonia is in Greece do you think it quite plausible that vases ect depicting the sun symbol would be found inside Greece’s border. But does this prove a Greek put it there or a Macedonian put it there a couple of millennia or more ago.

If the Macedonians are the beloved tribe of Greeks would not Greece have been proud to display their name as an equal amongst all the beloved parts of Greece instead of making Macedonia a dirty word.

If the Virginia sun was discovered in 1978 then do you not find it strange it took until 1988 when the Serbs informed Greece they could not hold Yugoslavia together anymore for the Greeks to officially change everything from province of Northern Greece to Macedonia literally overnight in the anticipation of Macedonia becoming an independent state from Yugoslavia.

Would not the symbol of a beloved tribe of Greeks fortuitously now found have been proudly displayed on everything from the first day it was discovered yet despite copywriting the symbol chose not to use it until 1993 when it was known Macedonia was definitely independent of Yugoslavia.

If the argument that the province of northern Greece was made up for administrative purposes as it also included Thrace and Macedonia and the name Macedonia was never deliberately hidden and always known and promoted is to be believed then why not keep using it after Macedonia became independent of Yugoslavia…after all wasn’t it for administrative purposes and isn’t Thrace still there.

I put it to you on the preponderance of the evidence the Greeks did not view the Macedonians as one of their beloved groups and hence hid there name in administrative mumbo jumbo and their symbols behind museum walls instead of proudly being displayed from every street and government building and only tacitly acknowledged their existence out of no choice since countless books including the Bible refer to Macedonia and deliberately used the word Greek instead of Macedonian in referring the Alexander’s campaigns in history books but used Athenian and Spartan ect in the wars against Troy ect. and as such by the Greeks deeds we can conclude it is more likely a Macedonian hand crafted the vase ect you now choose to proudly display.

[Frank]

It is a reality that Athens has manufactured a Greek-Macedonian identifier today for the first time after 1991 and that neither represents a linguistic or cultural Minority of any sorts

A Macedonian is a Macedonian and Greeks can certainly be all they like just don't call a spade a shovel

[Voltron]

Its even on Persians for God's sake. The sun has been a major symbol since the caveman himself.

[Voltron]

Here is one I posted in another thread, just because Im too lazy right now to find more.



Some will say it was only for decorative purposes. Ok, so what and the one on the box of Vergina wasnt ? " There are also depictions of ancient Greek hoplites bearing identical sixteen-pointed and similar eight-pointed symbols on their armours and shields as early as the 6th century BC "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vergina_Sun

Its really a stupid argument. Its like some Canadian plastering a flag of George Washington to offend us Americans. Whenever Greece plays Macedonia they both should wear the emblem to play if it makes them feel any better.

[Voltron]

TLWR, your confusing a political problem with reality.
As many churches and monestaries in Macedonia that have this emblem, you can find just as many here. It was a Pan-hellenic symbol in antiquity. Its only famous now because they found it engraved on a box in Vergina. Then it turned into political fodder at the breakout of Macedonia's independence. I couldnt care less if you want to use it, but to say that its not Greek is just silly.

Before 1992 it was this http://flagspot.net/flags/yu_fy-mk.html#var



VMRO was this http://flagspot.net/flags/mk%7Dvmrod.html

[The LION will ROAR]

My friend TLWR,

In 1988 we did not have a political dispute. Dont bog down history with political propaganda.

That's what I thought, NONE..!!!
Modern Greeks did not have a Macedonian concession..
Because if they did they would of being waving that Symbol proudly for centuries..

The Greeks would have cut ones head off prior to the late 1980’s if one ever raised the Macedonian Sun in a public place or declared oneself Macedonian in Greece.
So you see now why it is inappropriate for you and your kind to be displaying such symbols?

The very first time that the modern Greeks have seen the Macedonian sun (Vergina sun) was only in 1978. However, the modern Macedonians had known about this symbol ever since Alexander the Great and his father Philip II had used it. The Macedonian sun can be found engraved on the centuries-old Macedonian churches and monasteries, and it is also common in the hand made centuries-old folklore designs. Therefore, if anybody is steeling this Macedonian symbol today, that is the modern Greeks, since they knew nothing about it until 1978, while the Macedonians had cherished it ever since its existence. We should point out that the original name of Vergina where the discovery was made in 1978, was Kutlesh. This original Macedonian name was replaced by the Greek name Vergina, after Greece swallowed 51% of the territory of Macedonia, including Kutlesh, with the partition of 1913

[Voltron]

My friend TLWR,

In 1988 we did not have a political dispute. Dont bog down history with political propaganda.

[The LION will ROAR]

Voltron,
Show me instances of the Turkish and Pontic Christians expressing a Macedonian ethnic heritage prior to their transplantation in the Balkans. Show me historical documents indicating that Greece was transplanting "Macedonians" from Asia Minor and the Pontus during the 1920s.

[The LION will ROAR]

If I had a euro for each time I heard that story. Greeks also have a similar saying about when you guys first discovered the sunburst. I cant believe people actually believe that. Its been around Greece since time immemorial, deal with it.

Voltron, Can you show us all these Proud Greek-Macedonians waving or carrying the Macedonian Symbol in ANY YEAR before 1988...?

Can you also show us the Macedonian Symbol on Greek Churches, buildings and in their homes in ANY YEAR before 1988...?

[Voltron]

There is disagreement to that fact by many on this Forum and a lack of understanding of the importance of both the 8 and 16 ray Macedonian Sunbursts, as if both have a different epoch. The Athenians and Tatars have no right to Macedonia and both have no right to exist as Nations let alone the Athenians discovering our Sunburst for the first occasion in time in 1991

I remember chasing Greeks with a Macedonian Flag in the 80's, they sure did run with a group of Macedonians and the Golden Sun behind them.

If I had a euro for each time I heard that story. Greeks also have a similar saying about when you guys first discovered the sunburst. I cant believe people actually believe that. Its been around Greece since time immemorial, deal with it.

[Pelister]

I am getting the impression that all this is tied to the ICJ court case and I can foresee a "compromise" verdict where ICJ recommends Mk entry into NATO as FYROM and that FYROM not to use contentious symbols and elements of historical heritage (as the IA provides) claimed by HellASS.

As far as the Macedonian Sun symbol is concerned, witness what has happened to Macedonian football clubs in Australia and their current (non) use of the symbol.

Very true. I am amazed that the Macedonian government would pursue a legal case to uphold the terms of the Interim Accord, even though the best we could ever hope for is FYROM. The reality is that pursuing this ill fated process only reinforces our status as FYROM. The real tragedy is that the Macedonians have not actually been blocked at the United Nations, not legally and if Gruevski chose to exercise our legal rights we could be admitted to the UN by our constitutional name probably in less than a year. We could call off the 'negotiations' (which exposes our identity to aggressive politics), and safeguard it.

We have idiots running the country.

[Prolet]

Bushav, They should have gone to Prilep and had their team photo with the Aleksandar Makedonski Statue there.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Clearly the team name Megas Alexandros isn't a provacation.......

My thoughts exactly.

Macedonians should continue to hold firm against such racism.