Human Rights documents for Macedonians in Greece

[Makedonska_Kafana]

I was referring to border entry denial as of last couple years.

Not as bad today but nowhere near human rights standards - lengthy waits for unknown reasons ie. "I'm Macedonian".

YouTube - Voskopulos vo emisijata Protagonistes 02-03-2008

[Voltron]

I was referring to border entry denial as of last couple years.

[Makedonska_Kafana]

When did this happen ? You know how many Macedonians vacation here in Greece ? Not to mention free entry now between ROM and Greece. I really dont know the circumstances involved in your Father's denied entry. If it was lately of course.

YouTube - Macedonian Human Rights Movement International (MHRMI) - OSCE in 2000 - Human Rights Abuse in Greece

Over 100 years lately?

[Voltron]

Voltron do you find this democratic and fair in greece?

My uncle who has the same last name but was changed to greek and hes allowed to go back and visit Mala prespa in Egej. My dad's last name is not in greek and they denied us to go visit his homeland?

Am i missing something here you tell me?

When did this happen ? You know how many Macedonians vacation here in Greece ? Not to mention free entry now between ROM and Greece. I really dont know the circumstances involved in your Father's denied entry. If it was lately of course.

[Voltron]

They hold Greek citizenship and live in Greece. What do you classify as "lately" and what has changed "lately" that makes you think this is no longer an issue? This has happened repeadetly to many people. There are also reports of Greek priests refusing to christen ethnic Macedonian children with Macedonian names.

Human rights organisations are actually highly respected (outside of Greece) and extremely accurate in their reporting of these violations. They provided documented evidence and eyewitness testimony. What are you providing - your perverted gut feeling?

Id be more than happy to email you the process involved to get a name change in Greece. It takes a while due to beuacratic procedures but its doable, albeit a lot of running around to different municipality buildings. I doubt they would even know what a Macedonian name is unless someone walks in and beats their chest acting provacative. Again, I would like to hear about anybody that has tried a name change with the last year that got denied. Im not doubting what you stated, Im just asking if somebody tried within the last year or two.

As far as the baptism of Macedonians and their names. Go get in done in Macedonia, why is there a need to do it in Greece ? The GOC is very conservative, always has been. Its not targeted against Macedonians. Lets not choke over a tablespoon of water.

There might be some Human Rights Organizations that are genuine, but they can be misused as politically motivated tools as well.

[Makedonetz]

Voltron do you find this democratic and fair in greece?

My uncle who has the same last name but was changed to greek and hes allowed to go back and visit Mala prespa in Egej. My dad's last name is not in greek and they denied us to go visit his homeland?

Am i missing something here you tell me?

[George S.]

Voltron if you go to northern greece you will see the extent of what your greek govt has done & it's not how you describe it people like macedonians are denied jobs & they are estremely poor as a result of your government.

[George S.]

Thanks for that information Mactruth .When it comes to violations greece has thrown the book of human rights out the window,\. They seem to get away with it.There seems to be one rule for some & none for others.

[Vangelovski]

Im just asking if someone tried lately. I mean cant someone give it a shot and post the results here ? Unless of course its too much of a hassle. I did it and it took me 6 months. I forgot to ask, are they Greek citizens with a Greek name ? Or they are not citizens ? Human Rights Organizations, please...same people that created Kosovo. Yet the Albanians are out there selling organs like its a flea market and nothing is being done.

Vangelovski, I dont know if you have any interest whats so ever to come to Greece. If by chance you ever do. See for yourself, you might find out its not so bad.

They hold Greek citizenship and live in Greece. What do you classify as "lately" and what has changed "lately" that makes you think this is no longer an issue? This has happened repeadetly to many people. There are also reports of Greek priests refusing to christen ethnic Macedonian children with Macedonian names.

Human rights organisations are actually highly respected (outside of Greece) and extremely accurate in their reporting of these violations. They provided documented evidence and eyewitness testimony. What are you providing - your perverted gut feeling?

[julie]

Typical Greek response, no matter how much evidence you show they are in complete denial about the situation and only believe what is told by their church. It's like their view on the detsa begalci: instead of listening to their words of mistreatment the Greeks twist it into "they were STOLEN Greeks who were brainwashed by the evil Skopjans". All these Human Rights organizations speaks louder then their lies and show exactly what is going on in Greece

absolutely!
The denial when rampant rascism exists, the facts they brush off, the indoctrination in this "democracy" is fascism at its best, and our relatives and family are not free to this day, and their views and rights are not considered

[Voltron]

Im just asking if someone tried lately. I mean cant someone give it a shot and post the results here ? Unless of course its too much of a hassle. I did it and it took me 6 months. I forgot to ask, are they Greek citizens with a Greek name ? Or they are not citizens ? Human Rights Organizations, please...same people that created Kosovo. Yet the Albanians are out there selling organs like its a flea market and nothing is being done.

Vangelovski, I dont know if you have any interest whats so ever to come to Greece. If by chance you ever do. See for yourself, you might find out its not so bad.

[Vangelovski]

Voltron,

There have been many reports of MACEDONIANS been refused to change their names back to the original MACEDONIAN. I am more inclined to believe the various international human rights organisations that someone who clearly does not know what they're on about.

Seeing as you think we should stop thinking in terms of “groups” and start thinking in terms of “individual liberty”, WHY is it that you feel we need to do so within the framework of “Greece”? Why should “Greece” as a state even exist?

[Voltron]

Regarding changing of names, I explained to Daskalot that I changed my name on my Greek ID to be the same as my Anglosized name in the US. Im wondering, did anybody try lately and was rejected ?

[Voltron]

Everything you just wrote is a complete distortion of the facts on the ground. What about the numerous Macedonian organisations that have been refused registration or the many Macedonian individuals who have been refused permission to change their legal names to their former Macedonian (i.e., non-hellenised) names? How about the fact that Greece refuses to recognise their Macedonian identity, even on an individual basis?

Further, claiming that the right to freedom of association is not violated in Greece and then claiming that the right to self-determination for those who have decided to exercise it on a collective basis is seccesionist (as something negative) is a complete contradiction. What kind of a "libertarian" are you?

Vangelovski, allow me to answer your question with a Ron Paul excerpt.

"Racism is simply an ugly form of collectivism, the mindset that views humans strictly as members of groups rather than individuals..."

"By encouraging Americans to adopt a group mentality, the advocates of so-called "diversity" actually perpetuate racism. Their obsession with racial group identity is inherently racist..."

"We should understand that racism will endure until we stop thinking in terms of groups and begin thinking in terms of individual liberty."

Trust me when I say that individual liberty exists here in Greece and nobody has a problem speaking or declaring themselves Macedonian.
Everything else is political and based on "segregation" or "seccesionist" tendencies.

"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FG_HuFtP8w8" @ 6:35

Just shows how stupid America is for letting this man go.

[Mactruth]

Typical Greek response, no matter how much evidence you show they are in complete denial about the situation and only believe what is told by their church. It's like their view on the detsa begalci: instead of listening to their words of mistreatment the Greeks twist it into "they were STOLEN Greeks who were brainwashed by the evil Skopjans". All these Human Rights organizations speaks louder then their lies and show exactly what is going on in Greece