Adyghe - Circassians

[Risto the Great]

Misirkov wrote about the Circassians in Macedonia.
The language which is said to still exist in Macedonia relating to these people is called Adyghe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adyghe_language

Are these the original Arnauts?

http://www.circassianworld.com/Circassians.html

[Risto the Great]

I note blood feuds exist for these people as well.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Interesting, when is it assumed that they arrived in the Balkan region, Ottoman times or earlier? I recall Pulevski (or another writer of that era) mentioning something similar. Do you have the quote from Misirkov?

[Risto the Great]

Definitely Ottoman times.
I will dig up Misirkov's comments about them.

[TrueMacedonian]

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?_r=1&res=9906E4DE153FE432A25753C2A9649C94609FD7CF&oref=slogin

The above link is from a NY Times article written in 1881. The article makes the connection between Albanians and Circassians. Interesting stuff. I can't wait to see those coments by Misirkov.

[Napoleon]

I find the similarity between the names Shqiptar for modern Albanians and Shapsigh, the name of a known Circassian tribe that settled in the Balkans in regions that Albanians now exist very interesting indeed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shapsigh

It also seems that a close examination of modern Albanians and their possible origins from the Caucaus region is, for western scholars a politically taboo subject they seem unwilling to touch. Could this have something to do with the fact that the Slavic 'migration' myth relies to a great degree on the Albanian-Illyrian connection theory???

[TrueMacedonian]

I find the similarity between the names Shqiptar for modern Albanians and Shapsigh, the name of a known Circassian tribe that settled in the Balkans in regions that Albanians now exist very interesting indeed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shapsigh

It also seems that a close examination of modern Albanians and their possible origins from the Caucaus region is, for western scholars a politically taboo subject they seem unwilling to touch. Could this have something to do with the fact that the Slavic 'migration' myth relies to a great degree on the Albanian-Illyrian connection theory???

Albanians being related to the ancient Illyrians was a romantic notion in the early 19th century.

[Daskalot]

If I remember correctly, it was the east romans that transfered people from Albania in the Caucasus.

[Soldier of Macedon]

My opinion is that the predominant 'shqiptar' element arrived some time around the 8th-10th century. Their language has many words of several origins that have been mutated beyond recognition, hence giving them the 'unique' look. A closer study of their language reveals a very strong Slavic and Latin element, with hints of others thrown into the mix. That is why it cannot be grouped with any other languages and remains a 'group' of its own, and it is this reason which they use in support of their 'Illyrian' origins.

Can't figure out the words, it must be Illyrian as a whole, and there go your Mohammed Bardylis comedies

[Soldier of Macedon]

Definitely Ottoman times.
I will dig up Misirkov's comments about them.

RtG, thought I would bring this one back from sleep, how did you go with finding that quote? If you've no time, I will see if I can find it, let us know.

[Risto the Great]

I swear I read his mention of them somewhere in one of his texts. But I cannot find it.

Here is a Letter from the Provisional Government of Macedonia to the Russian Consul in Salonica 1880. These people were obviously well known and quite probably despised over 100 years ago.

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Letter_from_the_Provisional_Government_of_Macedonia_to_the_Russian_Consul_in_Salonica_1880

THE PROVISIONAL GOVERNMENT OF MACEDONIA - "UNlTY"[1]

21st May 1880

The Provisional Government of Macedonia

No. 3 the Gremen teke 21st May 1880

General Consul of all Russia To His Excellency, N. Uljanov, Salonika

Your Excellency,

We send You this protocol decision of the National Assembly of Macedonia on behalf of the Provisional Government of Macedonia, begging You to send it to H. R. H. the Emperor of all Russia, Alexander ll. We hope that the Russian Government will support the righteous demands of the Macedonian people and will help them to obtain equitable treatment similar to that of the other Balkan peoples.

The Provisional Government of Macedonia, President, Vasil Simon

Members: 1. Anastas Dimitrovic 2. Ali Efendi (Albanian)

Enclosure:

PROTOCOL DECISION

The National Assembly of the Macedonian people, composed of provisional representatives of the people from various regions, was convened in Grernen teke, dealt with the general political situation within the country and examined all that would be necessary for the attainment of the national aim in Macedonia. On this occasion, the painful history of this country was taken into consideration, for centuries suffering from the violent acts of the authorities and from the pillage and savagery of the Circassians who had long ago settled in certain areas; the following elements were also taken into consideration:

- owing to her geographical location in the centre of Turkey in Europe, Macedonia has always been the victim of insurrections and pillage by the Turkish irregular soldiery, the Circassians and Ghegas;

- Macedonia, more than any other country, for political reasons has been ethnically divided into Slavs, Greeks, Albanians, Wallachians and Turks, while the occupiers have striven to dismember it, by which the national existence of the Macedonians has been undermined, relegating them always to misery;

- Macedonia was left as an orphan at the international congresses of the Great Powers;

- owing to the recent changes in European Turkey, Romania, Serbia and Montenegro, under the Treaty of Berlin of 1878, were granted full independence, Bulgaria, East Rumelia and Crete acquired their civil rights, and Epirus and Thessaly are looking forward to their union with Greece, while only Macedonia, which had a civilization of her own in ancient times, producing Aristotle and Alexander the Great, is deprived of any assistance;

- none of the decisions of the peace treaties has been implemented concerning the civil rights of the Macedonian population; Article 15 of the preliminary Treaty of San Stefano provided for full autonomy of the majority of Macedonia, and Article 23. of the Treaty of Berlin granted her organic regulations similar to the Crete Regulations of 1868; yet, two years have elapsed so far without anything being done.

ln accordance with all of this, the Assembly of the Macedonian representatives unanimously decided:

1. First to inform the Sublime Porte through the chief governor (the Vali) of Macedonia about the rightful demands of the Macedonian people for the immediate implementation of Article 23. of the Treaty of Berlin.

2. To hand over this decision to the consular representatives of the Great Powers that signed the Treaty of Berlin with the request that they intercede with the Sublime Porte in favour of the implementation of Article 23. of the Treaty of Berlin. Should the Sublime Porte take no action, the Provisional Government of Macedonia will call the Macedonian people to take up arms with the slogan - Macedonia to Macedonia, for the restoration ot Ancient Macedonia.

For the Provisional Government of Macedonia., President: Vasil Simon Secretary: signature illegible Chief Commander of the Military Forces of Macedonia: Kramontov

Archiva Ministerul Afacerilor Straine (Bucuresti) Fondut Constantinopol. Consulat Salonic. 31. VII/12. VIII, 1880, pp. 28-33.

[Soldier of Macedon]

Thanks RtG, I will have a look for it later, I recall something similar about the Circassians.

[Napoleon]

Another thing...why do the overwhelming majority of placemanes in Albania consist of Albanized names of Slavonic origin? According to the 6th century migration theorists, Albania was supposed to be the last refuge for the 'Illyrians' that the migrating Slavs were never able to penetrate. If this were true wouldn't you expect to find that the overwhelming majority of Albanian placenames to be Albanian???

The fact that the the overwhelming majority of placenames in Albania are Albanized names of Slavonic origin tends to point to the Albanians as being recent arrivals in Albania, who simply adopted the pre-existing names of the places were they settled.

The following is an example of 'Albanian' placenames...

Babine
Berzeshte
Bitinske
Boge
Bolene
Borje
Borove
Bradashesh
Brataj
Brezdan
Broje
Bujan
Bushtrice
Butrint
Cerenake
Cerkovice
Cerkovine
Cerrik
Ceruje
Delvine
Dhrovjan
Dipjake
Divjake
Dovolan
Dragobi
Dragot
Drashovice
Drenove
Dunice
Galine
Gernec
Gezavesh
Gjinovec
Gjorice
Gjuricaj
Gline
Golaj
Golem
Goranxi
Gorican
Gorishove
Gorre
Gostil
Gostime
Gostivisht
Gracen
Gradishte
Gramsh
Gumenice
Iljas
Janjar
Kalivac
Kamice
Kapshtice
Kepenek
Kishavec
Kolesjan
Koplik
Kos
Kosine
Kruje
Kuc
Kucove
Kurjan
Labinot
Lapardha
Lapulec
Lepushe
Leshnice
Leskovik
Libofshe
Libohove
Lilot
Livadhe
Lubonje
Lushnje
Malaj
Malig
Mborje
Morine
Novo Selo
Novosele
Ogren
Ostren
Pasnovisht
Penkove
Ploshtan
Podgorie
Podgradec
Pogaj
Pojan
Polican
Porav
Prelat
Prodan
Progonat
Prosek
Qereshnik
Raboshte
Radomire
Rakicke
Roskovec
Rreshen
Rrogozhine
Rubik
Salce
Selce
Selenice
Selishte
Selite
Shishtavec
Shushnice
Sinice
Skavice
Skore
Slabinje
Sllatine
Sohodoll
Sojnik
Sopik
Spille
Stebleve
Stjar
Stravaj
Strelce
Strume
Topojan
Trebinje
Trebisht
Tresenik
Tropoje
Udenisht
Urake
Uznove
Vanister
Velipoje
Verdove
Vermik
Vidhas
Visoke
Vlocisht
Vodice
Vorrozen
Voskopoje
Vranisht
Vrine
Vukel
Zabzun
Zagore
Zapod
Zemblac
Zhulaj
Zvezde

[Pelister]

My opinion is that the predominant 'shqiptar' element arrived some time around the 8th-10th century. Their language has many words of several origins that have been mutated beyond recognition, hence giving them the 'unique' look. A closer study of their language reveals a very strong Slavic and Latin element, with hints of others thrown into the mix. That is why it cannot be grouped with any other languages and remains a 'group' of its own, and it is this reason which they use in support of their 'Illyrian' origins.

Can't figure out the words, it must be Illyrian as a whole, and there go your Mohammed Bardylis comedies

I would agree with the period timeframe. Possibly around the time of Leo the Emporer. The Byzantines were known to transplant the populations of whole regions, en masse. Someone once suggested they came via Sicily.