Origins of the Greek language

[Soldier of Macedon]

We all know about the letters, but what about the words, opinions vary as to the % of Indo-European words in the Greek language in comparison to Semitic and other ancient languages.

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Greek-substrate-language

Non Indo-European terms used by Greeks include:

Terms of insult and prejorative vocabulary
Maritime terms, words for the sea, shipping (eg thalassa)
Words relating to Mediterranean agriculture, (eg olives)
Words regarding rulers, given by the populace (eg Tyranos)
Building technology (eg Kapital)
Words relating to Non-Indo-European divinities (eg Athena)
To this list, others have added placenames, for example those placenames that include -ss- (eg Knossos, Parnassos), -inth- (eg Korinthos), or -tt- (eg Attica).

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I wonder how many more words there are.

[Soldier of Macedon]

To this list, others have added placenames, for example those placenames that include -ss- (eg Knossos, Parnassos), -inth- (eg Korinthos), or -tt- (eg Attica).

Can any of our Greek members inform me of the Greek etymological meaning of the following words and placenames in modern Greece:

Thessaly
Larissa
Parnassos
Molossus
Perinthus
Corinth
Attica
Dodona
Athena
Hellen

??

[Spartan]

I think I can answer the last one SoM
Im not 100% sure, but I believe the name "Helen" comes from "Hellene"
It is a pre Homeric name with roots from the ancient region of Lacadaemon.

The other names above, I dont know.
Although Id be surprised if Corinthos and Thessaly were not of Greek origin.

Knossus is probably of Minoan origin

A quick search yielded this-

Hellen
fem. proper name, from Fr. Hélène, from L. Helena, from Gk. Helene, fem. proper name, probably fem. of helenos "the bright one."

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=Helen&searchmode=none

Larissa
Meaning of "Larissa"
Greek name
In Greek, the name Larissa means- cheerful. The name Larissa orginated as an Greek name. The name Larissa is most often used as a girl name or female name.
Greek Meaning - cheerful
Origin - Greece

http://www.meaning-of-names.com/greek-names/larissa.asp

Attic
1599, "of or pertaining to Attica," from L. Atticus, from Gk. Attikos "of Attica," the region around Athens. Attested from 1563 as an architectural term for a type of column base.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?l=a&p=23

[Soldier of Macedon]

I think I can answer the last one SoM
Im not 100% sure, but I believe the name "Helen" comes from "Hellene"
It is a pre Homeric name with roots from the ancient region of Lacadaemon.

The other names above, I dont know.
Although Id be surprised if Corinthos and Thessaly were not of Greek origin.

Knossus is probably of Minoan origin

A quick search yielded this-

Hellen
fem. proper name, from Fr. Hélène, from L. Helena, from Gk. Helene, fem. proper name, probably fem. of helenos "the bright one."

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=Helen&searchmode=none

Larissa
Meaning of "Larissa"
Greek name
In Greek, the name Larissa means- cheerful. The name Larissa orginated as an Greek name. The name Larissa is most often used as a girl name or female name.
Greek Meaning - cheerful
Origin - Greece

http://www.meaning-of-names.com/greek-names/larissa.asp

Attic
1599, "of or pertaining to Attica," from L. Atticus, from Gk. Attikos "of Attica," the region around Athens. Attested from 1563 as an architectural term for a type of column base.
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?l=a&p=23

Thanks Spartan, as you can see though, none of the above are confirmed as Greek words. Attica is an ancient placename, if it came to mean something in 1563 it is doubtful it meant the same thing 16 centuries earlier. Helen is not defined either, it is all speculation, and given the well documented history of the the Greek (language), it is rather suprising that a corroborated and confirmed etymology for words such as 'Helen' and 'Attica' are not readily available - This indicates to me that they are not native Greek words but loaned from elsewhere.

Can you show a literal example of how the word 'Larissa' would mean 'cheerful' in a sentence?

[Soldier of Macedon]

Although Id be surprised if Corinthos and Thessaly were not of Greek origin.

The 'nth' feature is pre-Greek, I am not sure how it would have sounded, whether Korinth, Korint, Korind, etc?

I cited Thessaly as it has the double 'ss', and mind you, even Thessaly was people by Thracians (Strabo) in ancient times before the Greeks. If this is the case then I guess this means that the name 'Thessaloniki' is not completely Greek apart from the suffix, is it?

[Spartan]

Thanks Spartan, as you can see though, none of the above are confirmed as Greek words. Attica is an ancient placename, if it came to mean something in 1563 it is doubtful it meant the same thing 16 centuries earlier. Helen is not defined either, it is all speculation, and given the well documented history of the the Greek (language), it is rather suprising that a corroborated and confirmed etymology for words such as 'Helen' and 'Attica' are not readily available - This indicates to me that they are not native Greek words but loaned from elsewhere.

Can you show a literal example of how the word 'Larissa' would mean 'cheerful' in a sentence?

Fair enough SoM, It was just a quick search I did.
If someone could do a more thorough search, perhaps it could yield better results.
As to your last question, I would assume that "Larissa" must be an ancient Greek word for "cheerful", as Ive never heard it used in Greek as a word.

[Spartan]

The 'nth' feature is pre-Greek, I am not sure how it would have sounded, whether Korinth, Korint, Korind, etc?

I cited Thessaly as it has the double 'ss', and mind you, even Thessaly was people by Thracians (Strabo) in ancient times before the Greeks. If this is the case then I guess this means that the name 'Thessaloniki' is not completely Greek apart from the suffix, is it?

I guess so!

Im pretty sure abouy Knossus being Minoan though as I have been there(its in Crete). It is a very well preserved Palace from Minoan times.

[Spartan]

SoM was just reading on another forum what we are talking about here.
It says that any Greek word with 'N' followed by 'TH', example 'Corinthos' is of Pelasgian origin. Same goes for the double 's'.

I just wish the site was more credible....

[Soldier of Macedon]

SoM was just reading on another forum what we are talking about here.
It says that any Greek word with 'N' followed by 'TH', example 'Corinthos' is of Pelasgian origin. Same goes for the double 's'.

I just wish the site was more credible....

I have heard the same.

Re Minoans, is it confirmed that they were Greeks? If not then names like Knossos and probably even Zakros (?) are likely to be foreign. Does Zakros mean anything? With Larissa, not sure.

[TerraNova]

I have heard the same.

Re Minoans, is it confirmed that they were Greeks? If not then names like Knossos and probably even Zakros (?) are likely to be foreign. Does Zakros mean anything? With Larissa, not sure.

According to the evidence we have till now, they were probably non-Greek.

(Of course ultra nationalists are confident that they were Greek-as usually ultra nationalists-no matter their ethnicity - are confident about various things.. )

Crete though was conquered and colonized first by Myceneans and then by Dorians.(c.1400-1000)
The remainings of the old population continued to live in some settlements at the Eastern/Souhern side of the island (Oropedio Lassithiou) (Prassos/Praissos) ,during the classical era at least (5th c BC) -they are mentioned by Homer and Herodotus.

They were called "EteoCretans".

Some 5-at least- inscriptions of their language ,written in Greek (Euboean) alphabet were found dating at the Archaic and Classical era,and could not be translated in Greek.

[Spartan]

They used Linear B or something, where as the Proto-Greeks used Linear A.
As far as I know , there are theories that say it is Greek, and others that say it is not.
However, they havent proved it to be Greek, thus I believe it was not.

[TerraNova]

They used Linear B or something, where as the Proto-Greeks used Linear A.
As far as I know , there are theories that say it is Greek, and others that say it is not.
However, they havent proved it to be Greek, thus I believe it was not.

In fact the opposite.
Minoans used Linear A .

Eteocretans used Greek alphabet( Euboean) to write probably in the same language as Minoans (their grandfathers)used.

[Pelister]

A Modern historiagraphy of Greeks "purifying" their language would be useful here, because by all accounts the "Greek" language of 1800 was intelligible to a ethic Turk.

[Soldier of Macedon]

I have read that the Greek word for 'speak' which is Milise comes from a Semitic Hebrew word meaning 'word' or 'language'. Can anybody confirm this?

[Soldier of Macedon]

For more on the Semetic element in the Greek language, check page 25 and 26 of the following:

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=0qAoqP4g1fEC&pg=PA24&lpg=PA24&dq=semetic+words+in+greek&source=web&ots=_fYGyvOB-_&sig=2g4cByyIDIk4Nl8U2HJbsMWp5iQ&hl=en&ei=XfCWSbXPHJHItQP4x-WQAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=2&ct=result#PPA26,M1