Language = Ethnicity

[Venom]

So this is what it all comes down to.

GREEK FACT:
We speak a slavic language so therefore, we are a mythical race of slavs that came to our land, conquered it and stopped at the magical border at Egej which didn't exist until 1913.

REAL LIFE:
There is no evidence any slavs ever came from anywhere.

GREEK FACT:
The greeks are descended from the ancient peoples of the land, who were always one nation and lived exactly upto the border created in 1913.

REAL LIFE:
The powers that be tell the Albanians and Vlachs who lived on the acropolis that they'd be given a country and all that. With that country they got given a language which happened to be a language that a race of people spoke there thousands of years ago. The greeks then use this to 'prove' they come from the ancient people who were never ever one nation and never associated with the Macedonian people, except to get their asses kicked by them. There is plenty of evidence to show this.

CONCLUSION:
Just because a bunch of vlasi, turci, albanci, armenci, grkomani, romi and others speak a similar language, doesn't make them ancient to the area whatsoever.

[lvintra]

Do you want reply for that?

[Venom]

Go on, work that village internet connection for me.

[Sarafot]

......If they want to be Hellens....world alow them......but why the fuck they dont alow us to be Macedonians........we have strong arguments.....and they ignore them all.....

[Delodephius]

I can reply to the title of this topic since that is from what I just this day had on my "Intro into Linguistics" exam. Language does not equal ethnicity and it is usually a lame argument by those who want to prove it is. Ethnicity = one's own will.

[Rogi]

Im sorry Slovak but ethnicity is not owns own will.

Ethnicity is based on the collective of a number of factors which may include language, culture, religion, common descent, etc.

[Delodephius]

Yes, but one can throw away those factors and accept new ones. It all comes down to what you want to be and accepting the terms of it.

[Rogi]

It is always a matter of those factors (language, culture, religion, etc).

What you want to be is what causes you to accept those factors (change your language, accept new culture, change your religion, etc).

However, the common descent factor is unchangeable and will always provide you with the link back to your original national/ethnic group.

[Delodephius]

That depends on how you are strong mentally and how strong influence your original ethnicity had on you and how much were you attached to it. How much you remember and how much a change the new ethnicity has brought into your life. It is not a simple matter, and drawing from title of this topic, one cannot simply describe an ethnicity by one chosen factor and expect that by changing that factor the ethnicity too will change.

However, you can always declare your own ethnicity to be something else.

[Risto the Great]

What an interesting discussion.
The reality is that Macedonians like me resent their brothers who have sold their identity to the nearest Greek church. The Macedonians who sold their identity believe they have embraced a superior identity. Imagine their distaste when truths are revealed about the modern Greek identity and how it has been thrust upon the unsuspecting masses to achieve aims beyond the Greek citizen's imagination. How this identity is so new that issues like "previous ethnicities" are still being ironed out. This is why we endure so many Grkomani infiltrating forums like this. They resent our right to challenge their recent dalliances with their new jigsaw identities. So much so that they have convinced themselves of bizarre historical events in their own family narratives that help to reinforce this new creation they have adopted. The "born again" types will always show more passion. We see the children of the "born again Greeks" and note their subdued enthusiasm for the new identity their parents have embraced. Quite recently I was given a link to some confused kids who are "Greek Macedonians". They say they speak Macedonian but call themselves Greek because it is "easier". I say they are retarded, but they are merely products of their environments. Their parents would have described themselves as purely Greek so I am sure some questions are being asked right now!

I believe Slovak is correct, people will change their ethnicity over time. We in the English speaking Diaspora often feel like we have an edge over our people back home. Having an extra feather in our caps. In a few generations that divide will probably become very great.

The idea of common ancestry is important but may not be enough to counter the delusions of people that cannot or will not face the skeletons in their own ancestor's closet.

Notwithstanding any of this, language is a strong indicator of common ancestry and may help some lost souls find the closet with the skeletons in it.

[Pelister]

The connection between 5th century invaders and modern Macedonians is hypothetical, and should be discounted.

From what I've been reading lately, most anthropologists who study the Macedonian ethnic group, point to many aspects of the Macedonian culture that are very ancient, and very local to the region. They form a unique and separate ethnic group, and display traits that mark them out as having been in the one spot a very, very long time.

[Venom]

Slovak I agree with you. But if I say I am Chinese as of today, that doesn't change the fact that my parents, grandparents and great-grandparents have all been Macedonian.

[Delodephius]

You cannot change the past, only the future. Your children will be Chinese then.

[Venom]

That then poses the question, is ethnicity part of a man's future or past?

If I introduce my children to an ethnic Chinese person, they would say that I am not Chinese, neither are they and never except me as a Chinese man. Agreed?

It also reinstates my point on language having nothing to do with ethnicity.

[Rogi]

People try and downplay the 'common ancestry' factor in ethnicity to no avail.