Vangelovski - Strategic Policies and Objectives

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  • Risto the Great
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2008
    • 15658

    Vangelovski - Strategic Policies and Objectives

    Hi All,
    I found this whilst browsing around online.
    Since we are having a look at the UMD, perhaps we should look at Tom's thoughts in 2003 when he was (perhaps) involved in the founding stages of the UMD. He has since parted ways. Does anyone think his 5 year old opinions are still relevant? Has anything changed that might influence these policies and objectives since then?

    I would be curious to know if his thoughts have changed. I welcome our forum reader's input.

    Strategic Policies and Objectives

    Tom Vangelovski

    November 6, 2003

    Introduction

    The ruling elite of Macedonia has procrastinated for over a decade, all the while allowing the national interest and human rights of all Macedonians to erode to unacceptable levels. The time to push the Macedonian agenda for the new century was yesterday. The time to plan for this was the day before. We Macedonians are far behind, but with a lot of hard work perhaps we can catch up.

    The following outlines a number of ideas that will hopefully open further discussion and debate among Macedonians about the strategic policies and objectives that the Republic of Macedonia should pursue in the new century.

    European Union Membership

    1. All efforts must be focused toward eventual membership of the European Union. Macedonia should look toward accomplishing this task within a decade.

    2. However, strong and independent political, military and economic relationships must be maintained with key world powers outside of the European Union, namely the Russian Federation and the People's Republic of China. These links are of vital importance for a strong and independent Macedonia.

    3. Atlantic alliances, especially NATO or any other combination involving the United States or the United Kingdom outside of the European Union, should be strictly avoided. Macedonian interests remain in a strong, independent and united Europe, rather than divisive American power ambitions.

    Defence

    4. Within the structures of the European Union and any future integrated European defence system, Macedonia should build and maintain an effective and professional military and police force. The military and police should also maintain a capacity to act independently of all international structures.

    5. Macedonia should also develop a highly capable and effective intelligence service that maintains its independence from any international structures, working solely for the security of the Republic.
    Public Relations

    6. Public relations is of vital importance for all policy objectives. The Government of Macedonia should use the services of PR firms from across the world in order to promote the interests of the state, its people and its economy.

    7. Also of importance is the use of Macedonian and pro-Macedonian lobby groups, institutes, media, NGO's, politicians and other means to promote national interests.

    Demographics

    8. Ethnic harmonisation needs to be achieved within Macedonia and an ethnic Macedonian population of a suitable level needs to be maintained. Initiatives should also be considered for Macedonian population levels in the "occupied territories" (i.e. Aegean, Pirin and Mala Prespa).

    9. A new section within the Interior Ministry should be established to coordinate efforts in relation to demographic issues.
    Diaspora

    10. The Macedonian Diaspora should be utilized as fully and effectively as possible in order to achieve policy aims and strategic goals. Their efforts should be well recognised and rewarded where appropriate.

    11. The Macedonian people residing within the occupied territories should be given automatic Macedonian citizenship and their human rights protected by the Macedonian Government. Macedonian citizenship should also be readily available to all ethnic Macedonians regardless of place of birth or residency.
    Risto the Great
    MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
    "Holding my breath for the revolution."

    Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com
  • Demos
    Banned
    • Dec 2008
    • 325

    #2
    Initiatives should also be considered for Macedonian population levels in the "occupied territories" (i.e. Aegean, Pirin and Mala Prespa).
    I think this is not a good way to build constructive relationships with any of your neighbors. Reminds me of the way people used to talk in the Balkans during the early part of the 20th century.

    Comment

    • Pelister
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 2742

      #3
      I can't speak for him but only on what I've read I would say that he still stands behind most of this.

      It is possible that he has a different opinion of the E.U. Given the events of the last few years, I would hazard a guess and say that Tom thinks the E.U and Greece are now irrelevent.

      Comment

      • Rogi
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2008
        • 2343

        #4
        I wouldn't say they are irrelevant, but I would say they are NOT for Macedonia at this time.

        If we were to join the European Union and NATO without any of this bullshit about our name, language, identity, etc then being in those unions would help speed up the process of achieving the true end goals of the Macedonian Cause.

        But given how the EU and NATO have changed and taken positions against the Macedonian name, language and identity and against Macedonian sovereignty in general, then as they are, these organisations are NOT for Macedonia and are not in Macedonia's interests.

        Comment

        • osiris
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2008
          • 1969

          #5
          I wouldn't say they are irrelevant, but I would say they are NOT for Macedonia at this time.

          If we were to join the European Union and NATO without any of this bullshit about our name, language, identity, etc then being in those unions would help speed up the process of achieving the true end goals of the Macedonian Cause.

          But given how the EU and NATO have changed and taken positions against the Macedonian name, language and identity and against Macedonian sovereignty in general, then as they are, these organisations are NOT for Macedonia and are not in Madcedonia's interests
          my sentiments exactly. bravo rogi .

          Comment

          • Risto the Great
            Senior Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 15658

            #6
            Originally posted by Demos View Post
            I think this is not a good way to build constructive relationships with any of your neighbors. Reminds me of the way people used to talk in the Balkans during the early part of the 20th century.
            You don't even comment on the type of initiatives and yet you denounce this. Silly stuff Demos ... the pitter patter of an apologist.
            Risto the Great
            MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
            "Holding my breath for the revolution."

            Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

            Comment

            • Risto the Great
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2008
              • 15658

              #7
              Quite frankly, I think Macedonia simply needs to get its house in order (Albanians being the largest issue), foster relations with China and Russia and keep the USA happy as a girlfriend on the side.

              EU, Nato etc are irrelevant at this time.
              Risto the Great
              MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
              "Holding my breath for the revolution."

              Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

              Comment

              • Demos
                Banned
                • Dec 2008
                • 325

                #8
                Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
                You don't even comment on the type of initiatives and yet you denounce this. Silly stuff Demos ... the pitter patter of an apologist.
                The rest of the initiatives I welcome as a positive development for your country, but that "initiative" is quite anachronistic.

                Comment

                • Risto the Great
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2008
                  • 15658

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Demos View Post
                  The rest of the initiatives I welcome as a positive development for your country, but that "initiative" is quite anachronistic.
                  It was not an "initiative", you denounced it before it even got to that stage:
                  Initiatives should also be considered for Macedonian population levels in the "occupied territories"
                  As an example, an "initiative" could be for every Macedonian in Greece to give a red rose to every tourist who visits their village. Get it?
                  Risto the Great
                  MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                  "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                  Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                  Comment

                  • Pelister
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 2742

                    #10
                    Demos, I can't see how the Macedonians are behaving like someone from last century.

                    If anyone is doing this its the Greeks.

                    But from an economic point of view, Macedonia does not need to be a member of the E.U.

                    From a military/security point of view, it doesn't need to join NATO as long as it has strong bilateral military ties with the superpowers, i.e., U.S and Russia, and Turkey as the local - which it does.

                    R.T.G made the point that the Macedonians should sort out the Albanians first, and I think this should be the top priority. It should not be engaging the Greeks or anyone else on the matter of its constitution, because when it does it makes it everyone elses business too, and that is only asking States to take a position one way or the other.

                    By now, the Macedonians should know who their friends are and who their enemies are - and act accordingly.

                    Comment

                    • Demos
                      Banned
                      • Dec 2008
                      • 325

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Pelister View Post
                      Demos, I can't see how the Macedonians are behaving like someone from last century.

                      If anyone is doing this its the Greeks.

                      But from an economic point of view, Macedonia does not need to be a member of the E.U.

                      From a military/security point of view, it doesn't need to join NATO as long as it has strong bilateral military ties with the superpowers, i.e., U.S and Russia, and Turkey as the local - which it does.

                      R.T.G made the point that the Macedonians should sort out the Albanians first, and I think this should be the top priority. It should not be engaging the Greeks or anyone else on the matter of its constitution, because when it does it makes it everyone elses business too, and that is only asking States to take a position one way or the other.

                      By now, the Macedonians should know who their friends are and who their enemies are - and act accordingly.
                      The enemy of the Macedonians are not the Greeks. I can tell you this with certainty. Aside from the name/historical dispute we have no animosity towards your nation or any designs on your country. If you're looking for enemies all you have to go is go to Tetovo and you'll find plenty.

                      In 2001 when the shit hit the fan, Greece even gave some military assistance to you guys despite the ongoing name dispute, but then you turned around and sold all the hardware we gave you once the Orchid agreement was signed. That was a very short sighted move.

                      Comment

                      • Rogi
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 2343

                        #12
                        Demos,

                        The reason why we will always know that is bullshit, is because there is a sizeable UNRECOGNIZED and OPPRESSED ethnic Macedonian minority in Aegean Macedonia, which today falls within the modern borders of Greece.

                        Now (the last 18 years) Greece is expanding that oppressive policy OUTSIDE its borders, to do the same to the Macedonians in the Republic of Macedonia.

                        The problem for Greeks is our very existence. It is a problem for Greeks, because our very existence as Macedonians tears apart your 'great Hellenic myth' and identity as a nation.

                        Comment

                        • Demos
                          Banned
                          • Dec 2008
                          • 325

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Rogi View Post
                          Demos,

                          The reason why we will always know that is bullshit, is because there is a sizeable UNRECOGNIZED and OPPRESSED ethnic Macedonian minority in Aegean Macedonia, which today falls within the modern borders of Greece.

                          Now (the last 18 years) Greece is expanding that oppressive policy OUTSIDE its borders, to do the same to the Macedonians in the Republic of Macedonia.

                          The problem for Greeks is our very existence. It is a problem for Greeks, because our very existence as Macedonians tears apart your 'great Hellenic myth' and identity as a nation.

                          Unrecognized yes...oppressed only in your fantasies. My uncle is half Macedonian and his mother was 100% Macedonian. Nobody "oppressed" him or his family. They live quite well and are happy and fortunate to be living in Greece instead of other countries in the Balkans who lag behind Greece in everything.

                          If we are the "oppressors" as you claim we are, Pavlos Voskopoulos and Company would had been dead men a very long time ago, suffering from "suicides", "heart attacks", and "auto-accidents". Instead though, the Greek state employs Mr. Voskopoulos in a state company as an employee of the state (compliments of the Greek tax payer), Mr. Voskopoulos is allowed to have his own political party, talk on TV/Newspapers.

                          If that is "oppression", please tell me where I can sign up for such "oppression".

                          Comment

                          • osiris
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2008
                            • 1969

                            #14
                            demos you are in denial a common affliction maongst you wannaabbee greeks. its raelly pathetic that you dont make an effort and learn what happened in macedonia, or even accept that your nation still refuses to recongnise ist minorities. i say demos your true bavarian colours are showing already.

                            Comment

                            • Risto the Great
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2008
                              • 15658

                              #15
                              Voskopoulos is resented by many Macedonians for some of the reasons you mention above.

                              Your Uncle may well be happy. Good on him.
                              Greece lagged behind Yugoslavia 20 years ago.
                              What is your point?
                              Risto the Great
                              MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
                              "Holding my breath for the revolution."

                              Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

                              Comment

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