The etymology of "Hodos."

[Philosopher]

I need help. Spartan, perhaps you are my guy.

The Greek word "hodos," as existed in Koine, and probably still exists in modern Greek, means any number of things. For example, it could be translated as a "way," a "road," a "journey," or "traveling" or "custom."

Obviously, the "hod" is the prefix and the "os" is the suffix. The Greek suffix "os" is a common ending as is "on" and they both symoblize object and subject. My question to any person, esp. any Greek person fluent in Hellenic, does the prefix "hod" have any meaning?

In other words, for example, George means "earth" and "work." Does "Hod" have any meaning in Greek--what is its etymology. I'm trying to figure out whether the prefix Hod means anything on its own and if so, how does it mean it?

Another example:a few weeks back we debated the issue of the name Basileus--king. I asked if any part of "Va-sil-eus" when broken down, means "king." I was told it didn't.

Does the word "Hod-os," when broken down, mean anything? Or does the word simply mean a "way" without any explaination as to how or why the word means a "way" or "road" or "journey."

I can't seem to find out whether there is a basis for the meaning of Hodos or whether it is a word that means "way" and no one knows why for sure. It is very important if someone can enlighten me on this matter; I would greatly appreciate it.

Someone? Anyone?

P.S. I am not asking for the Macedonian word "Od" or its possible connection to the Greek "hodos." Please, let's stick to Hellenic

[Philosopher]

I have stumbled upon new information on the issue of "Hodos."

The Koine word "Hode," spelled "'ode," means "This one here"; or in plural "these things." Hode, spelled "wde," means "here" but this word is altogether different.

"Hodoiporeo" means "to go on one's journey." From the word Hodos and poria or poieo, "to do."

Can someone explain to me why "hode" means "This one here" but hodos means "way, road, journey?"

Why the difference? How can the same stem, "Hode" means two very different things? Is it because "hode" differs from "hod" with the letter "e." Or is it because Hod has an "os" at the end and "hode" doesn't?

[makedonin]

Can someone explain to me why "hode" means "This one here" but hodos means "way, road, journey?"

I guess both are different words with different roots, here is what Liddel and Scott Greek Lexicon says on hode:

ὅδε, ἥδε, τόδε, demonstr. Pron., this, formed by adding the enclit. -δε to the old demonstr. Pron. ὁ, ἡ, τό, and declined like it through all cases : Ep. dat. pl. τοῖσδεσσι, τοῖσδεσσιν, as well as τοῖσδε, Il. 10.462, Od. 2.47, al. ; and τοῖσδεσι 10.268, 21.93 ; τοῖσδεσιν Democr. 175 ; τοισίδε Hdt. 1.32, al. : Aeol. gen. pl. τῶνδεων Alc. 126 : Arg. gen. pl. τωνδεωνήν ( = τῶνδεων ̈ ἤν) Mnemos. 57.208(vi B. C.): nom. pl. neut. ταδήν ibid., IG 4.506.1 ; ταδή Sch. Ar. Ach. 744:—ὅδε, like οὗτος, is opp. ἐκεῖνος, to designate what is nearer as opp. to what is more remote ; but ὅδε refers more distinctly to what is present, to what can be seen or pointed out, though this distinction is sts. not observed, e.g. ξύμπας Ἀχαιῶν λαός, ἐν δὲ τοῖσδ' ἐγώ S. Ph. 1243 (v.l. τοῖς), cf. Ant. 449, and on the other hand, ἦ τόνδε φράζεις;—τοῦτον, ὅνπερ εἰσορᾷς Id. OT 1120 : the forms ὁδί, ἡδί, etc. [i_], are freq. in Com. and Oratt., but are not used in Trag. : the i_ may be separated from the ὅδε by the adversative δέ, as τὸν μὲν . . , τηνδεδί Ar. Av. 18, cf. Ec. 989.

I of Place, to point out what is present or before one, Ἕκτορος ἥδε γυνή this is, or here is, the wife of Hector, Il. 6.460 : very freq. in Trag., ἀκτὴ μὲν ἥδε Λήμνου S. Ph. I, cf. E. Tr. 4, Ion 5,Hel. I, HF 4, Ba. 1 ; in Com., ἐγὼ σιωπῶ τῷδε; Ar. Ra. 1134, etc.; and in Prose, ὧν Θεόδωρος εἷς ὅδε Pl. Tht. 164e ; of what belongs to this world, Id. Phdr. 250a, Smp. 211c.

the hode>ὅδε is used also with:

2 with Verbs of action, = here, ἀνδρί, ὅστις ὅδε κρατέει who holds sway here, Il. 5.175 ; ἔγχος μὲν τόδε κεῖται ἐπὶ χθονός here it lies, 20.345, cf. 21.533, Od. 1.185, etc. ; ἥδ' ἡ κορώνη . . λέγει the crow here . . , v.l. in Ar. Av. 23 : freq. in Trag., esp. to indicate the entrance of a person on the stage, καὶ μὴν Ἐτεοκλῆς . . ὅδε χωρεῖ here comes . . , E. Ph. 443, cf. S. OT 297, 531, 632, OC 32, 549; f.l. in E. Heracl. 80.

3 with a pers. Pron., ὅδ' ἐγὼ . . ἤλυθον here am I come, Od. 16.205 ; ἡμεῖς οἵδε περιφραζώμεθα let us here . . , 1.76 ; δῶρα δ' ἐγὼν ὅδε . . παρασχέμεν here am I [ready] to provide . . , Il. 19.140 : with a pr. n., ὅδ' εἰμ' Ὀρέστης E. Or. 380 : with αὐτός, ὅδ' αὐτὸς ἐγώ Od. 21.207, 24.321.

while ὁδός > hodos is an noun and the same lexicon says this:

ὁδός, ἡ (οὐδός once in Hom. , Od. 17.196):

I of Place, way, road, Il. 12.168, 16.374, IG 12.878, al. ; ἱππηλασίη ὁ. Il. 7.340 ; λαοφόρος 15.682 ; ὁ. ἁμαξιτός Pi. N. 6.54 ; ὁ. ἱερά, to Eleusis, Paus. 1.36.3, cf. IG 12.881 ; βασιλικὴ ὁ. PPetr. 3p.65 (iii B.C.), PSI 8.917.8 (i A. D.) ; ποταμοῦ ὁ. course, channel of a river, X. Cyr. 7.5.16 ; ὁ. ἀκοντίου Antipho 3.4.5 : with expression of the direction, ὁδὸς ἐς . . Od. 22.128 ; ἡ ὁ. ἡ εἰς ἄστυ Pl. Smp. 173b ; ἐπί . . Id. Phdr. 272c ; τὴν εὐθὺς Ἄργους . . ὁ. leading straight to Argos, E. Hipp. 1197 ; τῆς ἀληθείας ὁ. the way to truth, Id. Fr. 289 ; cf. νόστος 1.1.

II as an Action, travelling, journeying, whether by land or water, journey, voyage, Od. 2.285, 8.150, etc.; τρίποδας ὁ. στείχει A. Ag. 80 (anap.); τὰν νεάταν ὁ. στείχουσαν S. Ant. 807(lyr.) ; ὁ. ἄνω κάτω μία καὶ ὡυτή Heraclit. 60 ; also, expedition, foray, ὁδὸν ἐλθέμεναι Il. 1.151, cf. A. Th. 714 ; τριήκοντα ἡμερέων . . ὁ. a thirty days' journey, Hdt. 1.104, cf. 206 ; also ὅσον ἐπὶ τρεῖς ἡμέρας ὁδόν Id. 3.5 (codd., ὁδοῦ edd.) ; ἄστρων ὁδοί E. El. 728 (lyr.): as acc. cogn. with Verb of motion, τὴν ὁ. ἣν Ἑλένην περ ἀνήγαγεν by or in which . . , Il. 6.292 ; οὐρανοῦ τέμνων ὁ. . . Ἥλιε, metaph. from a ship, E. Ph. 1 (but in Prose ὁ. τέμνειν is to make a road, Th. 2.100, Pl. Lg. 810e) ; similarly where ὁ. is road, μέσην ἔρχευ τὴν ὁ. Thgn. 220 ; ὁ. χωρεῖν Th. 3.24 ; ἰόντες τὴν ἱρὴν ὁ., from Delphi, Hdt. 6.34.

III metaph., way or manner, πολλαὶ δ' ὁ. . . εὐπραγίας Pi. O. 8.13 ; γλώσσης ἀγαθῆς ὁδός A. Eu. 989 (anap.) ; θεσπεσία ὁ. the way or course of divination, Id. Ag. 1154(lyr.); μαντικῆς ὁ. S. OT 311 ; οἰωνῶν ὁδοῖς Id. OC 1314 ; σῶν ὁ. βουλευμάτων E. Hec. 744 ; γνώμης Id. Hipp. 290 ; λογίων ὁ. their way, intent, Ar. Eq. 1015 ; εὐτελείας ὁ. Jul. Or. 6.198d.

2 a way of doing, speaking, etc., τῆσδ' ἀφ' ὁδοῦ διζήσιος Parm. 1.33, cf. 8.18 ; τριφασίας ἄλλας ὁ. λόγων ways of telling the story, Hdt. 1.95, cf. 2.20, 22 ; but τριφασίας ὁ. τρέπεται turns into three forms, Id. 6.119 ; ἄδικον ὁ. ἰέναι Th. 3.64 ; ὁ. ἥντιν' ἰών by what course of action, Ar. Pl. 506, cf. Nu. 75 ; ἢν ἔχομεν ὁ. λόγων Id. Pax 733 ; μία δὴ λείπεται . . ὁ. Pl. Smp. 184b.

Both words even though similarly spoken out, have nothing to do with each other cause it seems that ὅδε> hode derives from ὅ- and has added the enclit. -δε.

And odos > ὁδός, ἡ has it root from Homeric οὐδός > hudos.


To notice is that the later one have much to do with the Slavic Hoda(ti) and in Macedonian odi, ode etc.

This is my opinion though.

[Philosopher]

Makedonin,

Thank you for that--but I already know as much.

Spartan hasn't been around lately--I need his help.

Isn't there any Greek on this forum who knows Greek? Aren't you guys pure ethnic hellens, the descendants of Plato and Socrates?

Don't you guys know your own language?

How disgraceful!

[TerraNova]

I need help. Spartan, perhaps you are my guy.

The Greek word "hodos," as existed in Koine, and probably still exists in modern Greek, means any number of things. For example, it could be translated as a "way," a "road," a "journey," or "traveling" or "custom."

Obviously, the "hod" is the prefix and the "os" is the suffix. The Greek suffix "os" is a common ending as is "on" and they both symoblize object and subject. My question to any person, esp. any Greek person fluent in Hellenic, does the prefix "hod" have any meaning?

In other words, for example, George means "earth" and "work." Does "Hod" have any meaning in Greek--what is its etymology. I'm trying to figure out whether the prefix Hod means anything on its own and if so, how does it mean it?

Another example:a few weeks back we debated the issue of the name Basileus--king. I asked if any part of "Va-sil-eus" when broken down, means "king." I was told it didn't.

Does the word "Hod-os," when broken down, mean anything? Or does the word simply mean a "way" without any explaination as to how or why the word means a "way" or "road" or "journey."

I can't seem to find out whether there is a basis for the meaning of Hodos or whether it is a word that means "way" and no one knows why for sure. It is very important if someone can enlighten me on this matter; I would greatly appreciate it.

Someone? Anyone?

P.S. I am not asking for the Macedonian word "Od" or its possible connection to the Greek "hodos." Please, let's stick to Hellenic

Philosopher ,
"(h)od" is not a Prefix in (h)odos (οδός)
it's the root of the word.

There is the verb οδ-εύω (h)od-evo (go,travel,march).

From the same root come words like --
odigo =od+ago =drive /odigisi=driving /odigia=guidance

or ...ev-od-ono =advance,promote

par-odos =side street ...kath-odos=going down/cathode
(Xenophon (5-4th cen Bc) wrote "Kathodos ton Myrion" (abt the returning of Greek mercenaries from Persia to Greece)

and so on.

[TerraNova]

I have stumbled upon new information on the issue of "Hodos."

The Koine word "Hode," spelled "'ode," means "This one here"; or in plural "these things." Hode, spelled "wde," means "here" but this word is altogether different.

"Hodoiporeo" means "to go on one's journey." From the word Hodos and poria or poieo, "to do."

Can someone explain to me why "hode" means "This one here" but hodos means "way, road, journey?"

Why the difference? How can the same stem, "Hode" means two very different things? Is it because "hode" differs from "hod" with the letter "e." Or is it because Hod has an "os" at the end and "hode" doesn't?

Nop this is paretymology.
Ode is by O+de ...its irrelevant with (h)odos.
There comes Ta+de (these) and so on. (o and ta are articles)

Also.."hodoiporo" comes from hodos+poreia -poreia=rout
to do=poio
There is of course odo-poio=construct roads/streets and odo-poieia.

[Jankovska]

Hod means to walk in Serbian/Croatian, haha maybe you are not so unique after all

[Philosopher]

Philosopher ,
"(h)od" is not a Prefix in (h)odos (οδός)
it's the root of the word.

There is the verb οδ-εύω (h)od-evo (go,travel,march).

From the same root come words like --
odigo =od+ago =drive /odigisi=driving /odigia=guidance

or ...ev-od-ono =advance,promote

par-odos =side street ...kath-odos=going down/cathode
(Xenophon (5-4th cen Bc) wrote "Kathodos ton Myrion" (abt the returning of Greek mercenaries from Persia to Greece)

and so on.

TerraNova

Nice of you to enlighten us. Are you an ethnic Hellene? You are new on this forum right?

I understand that "hod" is the root word for Hodos. My point is that "os," like "ov" and "ous" etc. are common Greek endings--or suffixes. Thus, the word before that, Hod, is the prefix. Clearly, however, the "os" and the "ov" are merely symbolic of object and subject. Thus, I understand that much.

I understand Koine; I also undertand that "odos" or "od" is the basis for many words, like the ones you brought up before.

My problem is this: which language has the older and original form of the word "od" or "hod" etc? I find it hard to believe that in Greek and Slavic (Macedonian) a similar word exists with a similar meaning independent of one another. Which language is the original home of the word? In this sense, i know in Macedonian "od" and "odi" have instrinsic meaning, like "vodi" to lead, voda" water (stream or path of motion) etc.

Does the Greek "od" have instrinsic meaning? For example, in Macedonian "od" literally means "from" or "coming from" expressing motion and movement. This root word "od" is the foundation of many words that express action, motion, and movement. Does the Greek 'odos have a similar inherent meaning of motion? I'm not asking what the word means--I know that much. Is there any basis (that you know) for the meaning of 'odos?

[TerraNova]

My problem is this: which language has the older and original form of the word "od" or "hod" etc? I find it hard to believe that in Greek and Slavic (Macedonian) a similar word exists with a similar meaning independent of one another. Which language is the original home of the word? In this sense, i know in Macedonian "od" and "odi" have instrinsic meaning, like "vodi" to lead, voda" water (stream or path of motion) etc.

Does the Greek "od" have instrinsic meaning? For example, in Macedonian "od" literally means "from" or "coming from" expressing motion and movement. This root word "od" is the foundation of many words that express action, motion, and movement. Does the Greek 'odos have a similar inherent meaning of motion? I'm not asking what the word means--I know that much. Is there any basis (that you know) for the meaning of 'odos?

Philosopher..why one of the two languages should be first ???
Greek predates Macedonian for centuries in its written form (oldest samples found circ.1600 BC-lineage B) ,but this doesnt prove anything too-and it doesnt have to prove anything!

Havent u heard about Indoeuropean family of languages? Its really reasonable some words to have same or similar roots between the two languages.
It's like i m asking "three"-"drei"-"tres"-"tria""...."3"...which one predates the other???

[slovenec zrinski]

Which other indo-europeans have this word except the slavic (presumably all?) ones and greek?

[TerraNova]

Which other indo-europeans have this word except the slavic (presumably all?) ones and greek?

I dont know -do you?

[slovenec zrinski]

I have no clue. That is why I ask.

[makedonin]

in the Form only Sanskrit has something similar:


Sanskrit:


Possible relation of hoda can be sensed in the Sanskrit word:

atati verb. walking first Person singular.
adhicar > to walk or move on or over

where adhi is similar to the Macedonian od and as preposition means over ; on ; at ; where as atati is a verb for walking where T changes with D and DH and has the same meaning as in Macedonian odi or Serbian hOdati etc.

And in the same word car is used rarely in old Sanskrit and indicates to move one's self , go , walk , move , stir , roam about , wander (said of men , animals , water , ships , stars , &c.)


But Sanskrit has few more Verbs for walking, moving such as:

aGgana n. walking

Other IE such as Iranian Avestan have as follow:

Old Iranian: <paθ-> 'path, road' -- [Pokorny pent- :: to go, tread, walk; way] --

Avestan (Persian language): frayăn [frâ]
5 (subj. 3/3) to go, to move, to walk about; cl. 4 (k350)

î [-]
(v. rt.) to go, walk

[Soldier of Macedon]

It is not a Greek word by origin. All of the Slavonic people use it. That much is true.

Good research Makedonin.

[makedonin]

It is not a Greek word by origin. All of the Slavonic people use it. That much is true.

Good research Makedonin.

Thanx SoM.

In the light of the above said, the Koine word hodos is of Slavic derivation.

Since the Ancient Macedonians used the Koine as Lingua Franca, it is more than possible that this word is taken over from the Mother tongue of the Ancient Macedonians, which again points out to some possibilities that this Language had at least some touching points with the language we speak today.

this can be supported with other words found in the remaining lexica of the Ancient Macedonian language and it's paralel in our and/or other "Slavic" langauges.