The etymology of Odyssey

[Philosopher]

The word “Odyssey,” used as the appellation of Homer’s Epic, is defined by Oxford as “a long eventful journey.” Webster’s defines it as “a long wandering or voyage usually marked by many changes of fortune.”

The question is: what is the etymology of the word Odyssey that Homer used? There is nothing in the word Odyssey or “Odusseia” that, when broken down, means “a going or traveling or a journey” of sorts.
Could it be that this word, like Vasil, is an ethnic Macedonian word? And could it be that Western academics have yet again been mistaken?

Clearly the word “Odyssey” is not Greek in origin.
The Macedonian word “Odisi,” not only sounds like “Odyssey,” but as we shall see, means something very similar.

The word “Odisi” forms the root word “to go, to journey, to wander.” The Koine word “erchetai” could mean “he comes” or “he goes,” depending on the context. Likewise, “Odisi,” in its most simplistic definition means “to go” but may vary according to context.

One must understand that the primitive nature of the word Odyssey, itself thousands of years, has been preserved in Macedonian. And that this word, because it is primitive, is a primitive definition of an action. In this case, it rightly defines the role of Odysseus as one who is “going, travelling, journeying,” since travelling and journeying are all actions of “going.”

Does any intelligent Greek speaking person (not you Svoliani) know the etymology of “Odusseia”

[Delodephius]

I will tell you right away that Odysseus has nothing to do with Macedonian word "odisi". The Southern South Slavic (southern Serbian and Macedonian) languages drop the letter [x] in virtually all words. Hence the word "hodati" in Serbian, which means to walk, is "odati" in it's southern dialects and I believe it is so in Macedonian as well. Words like odi=come, ajde*=come on, leb=bread, lad=cold, etc. all begin with a [x] in all other Slavic languages (hodi, hajde, hleb, hlad, etc.) as well as in Old Slavonic i.e. Old Macedonian.
Hence I doubt that Odysseus has a meaning in Macedonian through that word.

*Even though it is a popular belief, the word ajde/hajde did not originate from Turkish, but it is shortened from odajmo/hodajmo, and all of it's morphological forms, and means "let us walk" or "let us go".

[makedonin]

You are wrong Slovak,

in original Greek it is Hodyssia Ὀδύσσεια where Ὀ > HO because of the ' character before it.

so Hodati would be close to it.

[Philosopher]

I don't think that is entirely accurate.

In Koine it is not uncommon for some words to have an "h" sound written over an initial vowel. Some words, for example, like 'at would have an "H" sound over it, thus "hat." However, when can have an 'at, an inverted ' symbol, and the meaning would be "at," and not "hat."

The ' that symbolizes an "h" does not in anyway take away from the letters after that. Even if we argue that the word "odisi," means "hodisi" in Macedonian, it does not take away from the meaning of going or coming.

And you're assuming that the word Odyssey, perhaps in the past, didn't have an "H" in front of Odyssey. Apparently it did.

However, as far as I know, the "h" is not used in Macedonian. The Macedonian words do not have, like the Serbian, an "Hodi," "hajde," hleb," and "hlad." Therefore, I think you are mistaken. Macedonians don't use "h" in this sense. But maybe in the past they did.

Anyone?

[Delodephius]

Greek /h/ is not [x] but [ɦ] (Greek /χ/ is [x]), which does not exists in Slavic until the Middle Ages and only in West Slavic languages and Ukrainian deriving from [g] (most Southern Slavic speakers cannot pronounce it). Learn your IPA and Latin transcription of Macedonian first!

[Delodephius]

I said Macedonian lost [x]. Keep up.

[Spartan]

In ancient and modern Greek(not sure about Koine) the title "Odyssey" has no "H" in front of it. In Greek "H" is an e(Hta). The title "Odyssey" is from the adventures of the main charachter of the book, "Odysseus".
You have to remember its a name, not a word.
In Greek, "Odyssey" doesnt mean anything except that its the title of one of Homers epics. In english the word has been made to mean "voyage" or "journey".
Wether or not this has any bearing on the etymology of the name "Odyssey" or "Odysseus", I dont know.
I will leave that for you linguists to debate

[Philosopher]

Spartan, my good man,

I am not suggesting that the word "Odyssey" had an ' or "H" in front of it. All I'm saying is that Koine has this feature.

Odyssey is not just a title; it is probably related to the name "Odysseus," the main character of Homer's epic. Whether or not that was his birth name or the name given to him in light of his "wanderings" and "goings," is not certain.

Whether there is an "h" in front of Odyssey is, frankly, not important. All I'm suggesting is that there is for certain a connection with the Macedonian "Odisi" and the "Odyssey." Not only do they sound the same, they have very similar meanings and spellings.

The reason we know that Odyssey means "to wander, travel" is because of the context of the story. Yet, at the time of Homer, surely he choose this word out of meaning; it meant something to the people of the time.

I don't think this is by chance. There is too much of a connection. Unless one can find me another language that uses "Odi" or "Odisi" or something there about, in a similar manner, I will hold fast to my position.

[Philosopher]

I just found this article; it, too, talks about "odi" and Homer. Read up!

Musings on the Macedonian Language

by Odisej Belchevsky

November, 2003

If someone were to tell you there are words in the English language (as well as other European languages) that have their roots in Macedonian it might sound unusual and you may not readliy accept the idea.

After much study, however, I have analyzed some 2000 words and my work indicates they are related to the Macedonian language.

I have gone back to 1500 BC and confirmed the existence of Macedonian words in Europe's most ancient writings -- The Homeric Poems.

I have found words with roots in Macedonian that lead to other words. Many are actual language concepts with their structure in Macedonian. They form, or are part of, "families of words." These concepts do not exist in English, German or French, but are found in the so-called Slavonic languages.

How many are even aware that in 2003 the World Association for Rock Art Inscriptions established Macedonia as having the world's highest number of stone carvings and inscriptions since prehistory?

As part of my studies I have created a rule for establishing the roots of a word by the use of what I call "functional etymology". In simple terms, most words can be explained by finding their family and related or "sister" words and then searching for their functional meaning in practical life. I have taken a number of years to test this rule and proven it in many instances.

In official Oxford sources the root of many English words is given as "of unknown" or "obscure" origin. However, by using the Macedonian language some of them can be explained.

I have talked to linguists about this but usually their comments are evasive as they try to avoid the subject. There is not a single linguist in the Western world I know of that has done any related studies.

Let me make it clear that I am not talking here of universal words such as radio, tank, television, radar, coffee, laser, etc. I am talking about basic, fundamental words like: water, watch, wade, warden, book, trek, shire, path, meek, divine, odometer, etc. This, of course, is only a tiny example.

When comparing these words with Macedonian words I had to go back and use the Old English and Old Germanic forms in order to acquire the proper meaning. I discovered that the older form is usually closer to the Macedonian meaning. Let me offer a few examples that explain how we can find the meaning of a word, its family relations, its roots and concepts:

Water - Wota - Woda - Voda

Water (Voda) conceptually derives its name because it is a liquid and moves. When we pour it, it takes the lead or moves ahead and creates its own path. By simply observing nature we see that rivers move and flow. These rivers, if large enough, are used as natural paths and roadways.

In Macedonian this word is important and at the root of the concepts of movement and leading as well as other related words. This is the "key" that unlocks the meaning of many other words and concepts.

Voda (Water) relates to vodi meaning to lead or to carry.

From here we have odi - to go, to travel, to move. This contains two fundamental word particles in Macedonian that indicate movement or displacement.

These are: "od" (from), and "do" (to) and together they create oddo (od + do) that again leads to "odi" meaning to go, to travel, to move. These particles are always used when describing movement, from one point to another.

Thus we get the following:

Voda - vadi, vade, navadi, livada (a moist or green pasture).

Note here the English term "wade" which means to move in water.

Vodi - to lead

Vodach - leader

Voditel - leader

Vodici - Holy day associated with water

Vodenje - leading

Voden, Vodensko, etc., place names of wet regions

Navodni, navadi - to water

Uvod - the beginning and summary of a book

Navod - to bring forward

Uvedi - to bring into a record


The Concept of Movement

The concept of movement has developed from water

Voda, Vodi = V + Odi

Odi, ode, ojde, ajde, otide, ide, idi

I have found the verb form idi (iti) in the Homeric poems dating back to 1500 BC.

Doide - came

Sjoide - went

Po-odi(e)- short walk

From here we can explain the meanings of many other words, for example:

Odometer - Odo = to move or go + Meter = to measure. In Macedonian (odomeri).

In electricity we have terms like, Anode. "An" is old Macedonian word for "Na" (Nad) meaning on or above + ode = go, move. Thus anode is explained as to go above or bring above.

Cathode - In Macedonian we have k'ti, kutni = bring down, + ode = go, move. Thus cathode is explained as to go down or to bring down.

Itinerary - has the Macedonian verb Idi (iti) = go, move, travel, as well as the noun Idenje = traveling.

If we turn briefly to Greek we can see that the Greek language has borrowed from this large family /concept the word -"Odos "- street and "odeo" to travel, mainly found in the Homeric poems. However this concept of movement simply does not exist in Greek, English or many other European languages (Except in the Slavonic languages).

Unfortunately, the Oxford and Webster authorities have referred to many of these words as "Greek" without any convincing proof as to their roots or families.

Here is a brief explanation of the remaining English words mentioned here:

Vardi, Varde - to watch or guard in Macedonian (Warden,Guard in English)

Bookva, bookvar - Book

Trk (trka trcha, trkalo) - Trek

Shirina, shirinka - Shire

Pat - Path

Mek, Meko - Meek

Divina, Divovi - Divine

In Macedonian "bookvar" is the very first "book" for learning to read and write. The word bookvar is related to a large family of words. This represents the larger concepts of learning and writing.

Alphabet, Learning, Writing and Science

Booka (buka) - In Macedonian this is a type of birch tree the bark of which is used to make paper tablets for writing*

Bukva, Bukvi - the letters of the alphabet

Bookvar - elementary learning book

Azbooka = (J)azik (Tongue or Language) + Bukva (Alphabetic Character) - used for reading and writing.

Nauka, uka - Science of learning, Learning

Nauchnik - Scientist

Nauchi, Uchi - to learn

Uchilishte - school

Uchitel - teacher

* In 1992 in Stobi, an ancient archaeological site near Veles, Macedonia, a wood-paged book was discovered along with a bottle for ink and a writing pen. Also in the Homeric Poems of approximately 1500 BC there is mention of the Ancient (Magic) wooden tablets that contained the letters /symbols that "spoke". The writing was done on the wooden surface prepared with natural bees wax and scratched with a solid /metal pen like tool .

These examples only "scratch the surface" of what I have found, but indicate the Macedonian language may have had an influence on other European languages from early times.

In the past many unknown inscriptions were dubiously identified as possibly Greek or unknown but, as I mentioned, they can easily be translated with the use of Macedonian and other Slavonic languages. Scholars will have to consider this influence if they want to get a better understanding of the languages in Europe.

Odisej Belchevsky,
Macedonian Language Researcher

[Delodephius]

You have no idea how even the smallest accent changes the entire picture of the origin of the word. Odysseus or 'Odysseus has no relation to Macedonian "odi", "odisi" or any other form of it. The Macedonian word "odi" derives from Old Slvaonic *hod [xɔd] which means walk. It's very old root and one that I doubt has changed since it's origin. Macedonian simply dropped the [x], presumably under influence of Greek.

But of course Macedonians never believe anything concerning linguistics since they believe their language is the oldest and the best preserved Slavic language, when in truth it is vice-versa.

I don't have patience with you anymore so you can go explore your language blindly into a dark cave. Good luck and hope a bear eats you.

[Philosopher]

Actually,

I don't deny how a single ' or "h" or any character can change the meaning of a word. I don't dispute that.

However, what you have provided here is of little substance. I can not state for sure that I am right but at least I have an open mind and am willing to explore the issue based on things we know.

[Delodephius]

Open mind without scepticism is dangerous as much is a closed mind. The question is also: "opened to what?" and "sceptical about what?". You have your little hypothesis about relation between Odysseus and "odi" but you ignore so much due to lack of knowledge. Can you not figure out what I am saying?! The very word "odi" did not exist in Macedonian before some 400-200 years ago. Macedonian is a new Slavic language, it virtually lost all of it's grammar and only thing that ties it with other Slavic languages and it's paternal languages is a similar vocabulary. It's layers and deeper meanings have faded compared to other Slavic languages, it is merely your lack of knowledge of these languages that prevents you from realizing this. I will not have anything to do with any future hypothesis about the Macedonian language as it is a futile attempt to try and reason with you people.

[Spartan]

Odyssey is not just a title; it is probably related to the name "Odysseus," the main character of Homer's epic.

My friend,
The title is 100% derived from the name "Odysseus". King Odysseus was one of the charachters in the Illiad, the prequel to the Odyssey.

Whether there is an "h" in front of Odyssey is, frankly, not important.

Fully agree, I was merely pointing something out.

All I'm suggesting is that there is for certain a connection with the Macedonian "Odisi" and the "Odyssey." Not only do they sound the same, they have very similar meanings and spellings.

I cannot dispute this as I am not a pro in etymology, but I can assure you that "Odyssey" has no meaning in Greek as a word.

The reason we know that Odyssey means "to wander, travel" is because of the context of the story.

Again, I fully agree.
"Odyssey" has a meaning in English, and perhaps other languages(i dont know to say) now, based on the concept of Homers story.

Yet, at the time of Homer, surely he choose this word out of meaning; it meant something to the people of the time.

At the time though, Philosopher my friend, homer did not choose a "word" out of meaning, it was simply a name that had no meaning as a word until the tale became famous.

I don't think this is by chance. There is too much of a connection. Unless one can find me another language that uses "Odi" or "Odisi" or something there about, in a similar manner, I will hold fast to my position.

Perhaps you are right Philosopher, I dont know enough about words like you guys.
Im just saying that Odysseus wasnt named so because he was a traveller, rather , travellers are said to be on an "Odyssey" because of the famous travels of Odysseus.
I hope that made sense
Good chatting with you my friend Philosopher

[Rogi]

Slovak, aren't you basing what you are saying on the assumption that all slavic languages evolved from the Old Church Slavonic?

Wasn't the OCS actually a written language that found a middle-ground, rather than the original spoken language, that ensured mutual intelligibility between slavic speaking peoples over vast areas, who already had differences in their spoken language?

[Philosopher]

Open mind without scepticism is dangerous as much is a closed mind. The question is also: "opened to what?" and "sceptical about what?". You have your little hypothesis about relation between Odysseus and "odi" but you ignore so much due to lack of knowledge. Can you not figure out what I am saying?! The very word "odi" did not exist in Macedonian before some 400-200 years ago. Macedonian is a new Slavic language, it virtually lost all of it's grammar and only thing that ties it with other Slavic languages and it's paternal languages is a similar vocabulary. It's layers and deeper meanings have faded compared to other Slavic languages, it is merely your lack of knowledge of these languages that prevents you from realizing this. I will not have anything to do with any future hypothesis about the Macedonian language as it is a futile attempt to try and reason with you people.

"He who can rule is his own spirit is better than he who can subdue a nation." Think about that.

"When wisdom is used, there is little place for violence." Think about that too.

I fully support your position to be critical; in fact, I welcome it. However, do not come on this forum with your nose held high; act civil, my friend.

"The very word "odi" did not exist in Macedonian before some 400-200 years ago. "

I disagree. You can't prove your assertion; it is an empty fable.

It is not my lack of knowledge on these matters that prevents me from seeing these matters.

Odisej Belchevsky, the author I quoted earlier, is far more learned in linguistics than you and he holds a very different position than yourself.

If Vasil is of Macedonain origin, than the Macedonian language must be very old, since the word "vasil" is also very old--far older than the era in which the Slavs allegedly came to the Balkans.

You and I have are differences; this is fine. But do not act self-righteous.