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Old 11-15-2010, 08:25 AM   #1
Onur
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Default Basarabi(Murfatlar) Cave Complex of 9-10th century

There is an unusual 9-10th century cave monastery in Basarabi, Romania. There are pictures and writings carved on the walls of cave and it is multi-lingual with old church slavonic and Turkic words, mostly written in Turkic runic script and few in Glagolitic.

Inscriptions and pictures in the Monastery dated from the era of first Bulgar kingdom, late 9th century and early 10th century. Some inscriptions mentions about Bulgar king Simeon I of 890 AD. So, it`s few decades after Bulgar people started to be converted to christianity. Some scholars says that the inscriptions belongs to Pecheneg(Patzinak) Turks, some says it belongs to Bulgars but it`s not known for sure.


Basarabi Cave Complex

The complex of cave churches situated near the village of Basarabi, in Dobrudja (Romania), not far from Constanta, was discovered in 1957. Until the last third of the tenth century the entire complex consisted probably of a group of limestone quarries which provided various blocks of chalk used in the construction of the upper part of the Great Stone Wall of Dobrudja, from Constanta up to Cernavoda. According to I. Barnea, the extraction of stone could have ended under John Tzimiskes (969-976) or Basil the 2nd (976-1025).

The abandoned caves could have been then transformed into a monastery. It so happened that the complex changed into a group of churches and burial chambers, located inside the limestone hill, at different levels, and interconnected through galleries.

Most of the chamber-walls are covered with overlapping graffiti, including drawings and inscriptions, thus making possible to discern different periods of the site’s history.

The variety of the graffiti is wide: there are Christian symbols, drawings of animals and men, Turkic runes, and Cyrillic inscriptions. These drawings could have appeared as early as mid-tenth century, as supposed by D. Ovcharov. Among the Basarabi graffiti there is a large number of runic inscriptions and separate signs, undoubtedly of Turkic origin.

http://www.mnuai.ro/docs/apulum/articole/1.fetisov.pdf































These are some drawings of christian saints with Turkic runic inscriptions on them in old church slavonic or Turkic words;










There is a video of this cave monastry in this Romanian website;

http://www.realitatea.net/video_9006...ni_580837.html


For more info and pictures;

http://www.patzinakia.com

.

Last edited by Onur; 11-15-2010 at 01:55 PM.
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Old 11-15-2010, 08:26 AM   #2
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An Article about this cave by prof. Florin Curta, Cornell University, NY, USA. Scholar explains the inscriptions here;























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Old 11-15-2010, 10:03 AM   #3
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onur very interesting stuff you got here.
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Old 11-16-2010, 02:28 AM   #4
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I believe a 3rd party may have to get involved. Between the Turks and the Bulgars. Its Macedonian. Tsar Samuil was a Macedonian king
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Old 02-25-2011, 07:06 PM   #5
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A giant archeological site discovered on top of a mountain in Ankara, Turkey last summer. There are a numerous carved pictures from ~3000 BC which are identical to the ones in central Asia, then early medieval Turkic runic writings which are identical to Orkhon monuments of 7th century, then even writings with Ottoman script from ~15-16th century. All in the same area, on the rocks side by side. Also there are about ~10 giant kurgans. A team of archeologists will start digging the kurgan graves soon.

More interestingly, i was personally shocked when a watched the documentary cuz when i watched the small documentary about new findings in Ankara, i saw exact same animal representations and symbols(tamga in Turkic. Symbols of Turkic tribes) with the ones in cave in Romania. Some symbols and pictures are so similar that it`s like drawn by same person!



Various horses, (pictures from Romania are on the left side,
the ones from Turkey are on right side);





Same type of bird (a special meaning?), (pictures from Romania are on the left side,
the ones from Turkey are on right side);





Men on horses, (pictures from Romania are on the left side,
the ones from Turkey are on right side);





Various forms of crosses, (pictures from Romania are on the left side,
the ones from Turkey are on right side);





Writings in Turkic script, (pictures from Romania are on the left side,
the ones from Turkey are on right side);


Few writings in Ankara, Turkey already deciphered. All of them are Turkic and most are wishes from God(Tengri) since it`s a kurgan grave and praying/altar site. People asks from God(mother nature or Tengri) to cure their sick relatives etc.



There are layers of drawings side by side and on top of each other, done in different time frames. These are drawings from the era of antiquity in the same site, (the picture on the left side is from Kyrgyzstan, the ones in right side is from Turkey);






Kurgan(tumulus) graves and the huge rock block which contains the drawings and writings on 4th picture;







Sources;

http://www.patzinakia.com/BASARABI/FOTO/B2/index.html

http://www.patzinakia.com/BASARABI/F...-C2/index.html

http://www.patzinakia.com/BASARABI/FOTO/B4/index.html

http://www.patzinakia.com/BASARABI/F...is2/index.html

http://www.patzinakia.com/BASARABI/FOTO/B4/index2.html
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http://www.facebook.com/video/video....86010214753432

http://www.facebook.com/video/video....86018274752626

http://www.facebook.com/video/video....87995744554879

http://www.facebook.com/video/video....88005701220550

http://www.facebook.com/video/video....89899267697860

http://www.facebook.com/video/video....89910247696762

Last edited by Onur; 02-26-2011 at 08:31 AM.
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Old 02-26-2011, 07:53 AM   #6
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There is a medieval era rosette in the Sofia museum which depicts the 12 animal calendar(proto-Bulgarian calendar for them) used by Turkic peoples. It`s been found in Pliska, the Asparuh`s capital city of 1st Bulgarian kingdom. Rosette is from 8-9th century, pre-christianity era of Bulgars. There are Turkic writings on it and the words for some of the 12 animals on it is same as in today`s Turkish, rest of the words is used in other Turkic dialects but yet again, Bulgarians call it as Bulgarian calendar!!!

Take a look at this;
Quote:
Bronze Rosette from Pliska

During excavations in the first Bulgarian capital- Pliska archeologists found a unique object. It is made of bronze and it has a shape of a rosette with seven rays. Not only its form is remarkable. There are ancient protobulgarian signs carved on it, so called runes.

Researchers think the rosette represents ancient Bulgarian 12 year cyclical calendar, declared by UNESCO as one of the most precise calendars in the history of mankind. Runes in the outer circle are the signs of the fifth known planets in the ancient time together with the Sun and the Moon: Venus, Saturn, Mars, Jupiter and Mercury. And in the inner circle are represented the runes of week days.

The most famous Bulgarian rune symbol- IYI is carved on the back of the rosette. This is the symbol of the Sun and expresses the religious ideas of protobulgarians. Some researchers believe this is the sign of Bulgarian dynasty Dullo, who found the Bulgarian state.

http://www.cometobulgaria.org/catalog/a_2_1.html

The original rosette;



Replica;



Quote:
The most famous Bulgarian rune symbol- IYI is carved on the back of the rosette...
Sigh! This runic symbol(tamga) of "IYI" can be found from anywhere between Siberia to Anatolia in numerous places. It`s one of most famous Turkic tamga. The symbol of "IYI" also represented on 7th century monuments in central Asia too.

There are a lot of "IYI" in the new archeological site in Ankara, Turkey. One of them;






Quote:
Bulgar calendar

The Bulgar calendar was a calendar system used by the Bulgars, a seminomadic people, originally from Central Asia, who from the 2nd century onwards dwelled in the Eurasian steppes north of the Caucasus and around the banks of river Volga.

The reading, along with the "cyclic calendar" interpretation itself, was originally proposed by Finnish Slavist Jooseppi Julius Mikkola in 1913. Later, there have been various modifications and elaborations during the 20th century by scholars such as Géza Fehér, Omeljan Pritsak, Mosko Moskov and other scientists.[3] Peter Dobrev, who supports a new "Iranian" fringe theory about the origin of the Bulgars, argues the Turkic names of the animals show that the Turkic peoples had borrowed these words from the Iranian Bulgars.[4]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgar_calendar
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Old 05-08-2011, 04:28 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onur
A giant archeological site discovered on top of a mountain in Ankara, Turkey last summer. There are a numerous carved pictures from ~3000 BC which are identical to the ones in central Asia, then early medieval Turkic runic writings which are identical to Orkhon monuments of 7th century, then even writings with Ottoman script from ~15-16th century. All in the same area, on the rocks side by side. Also there are about ~10 giant kurgans...........

Few writings in Ankara, Turkey already deciphered. All of them are Turkic and most are wishes from God(Tengri) since it`s a kurgan grave and praying/altar site. People asks from God(mother nature or Tengri) to cure their sick relatives etc.
Onur, what is the earliest period that those medieval Turkic runes have been dated in Anatolia?
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Old 05-08-2011, 03:06 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
Onur, what is the earliest period that those medieval Turkic runes have been dated in Anatolia?
These writings has been discovered last year and afaik archeological research will start this summer. The exact dates are unknown but linguists can estimate a period between 9th century to 11th century for the most runic writings by comparing the style with other writings. We can only estimate the time period if/when they discover a mummy or a piece of clothing inside kurgans, so they can do carbon dating analysis.


Btw, i remember that i`ve wrote that msg above just because you asked me to do so in another thread but that was 3 months ago. Apparently, it took a while for you to respond to it
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Old 05-08-2011, 05:59 PM   #9
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Yes I did, I must have overlooked it at the time during all of the other discussions

If the writings are dated around the 11th century, it doesn't really reveal anything that we don't already know, does it? Because that is the period when Turkic peoples arrived in Anatolia.
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Old 05-09-2011, 04:51 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soldier of Macedon View Post
If the writings are dated around the 11th century, it doesn't really reveal anything that we don't already know, does it? Because that is the period when Turkic peoples arrived in Anatolia.
Nope, because runic writings are not the only thing in that site. There are drawings from antiquity too. Drawings and runic writings, like layers on top of others and 10+ kurgans. This proves that this praying site has been used for more than a millenia or maybe more than two millenia by people of same culture. The drawings are also quite similar as the ones in central Asia. And all of these findings are definitely not related with Greco-Roman or Armenian culture. Even this fact discredits the claim of Turks first came to Anatolia in 1071 AD. This assumption was already quite baseless if you consider that Turkic speaking people existed in Balkans and central Europe since 5th century AD. Well, Balkan borders was less controlled than eastern Anatolia since the Hunnic expansion and probably the migration route of Turkic people from the north of Blacksea was active before eastern Anatolian route but after the Arabic expansion in 8-9th century, Byzantines pretty much lost the control of eastern Anatolia borders and this should be the time when eastern Anatolian Turkic migrations started.

The location of the site at the top of a mountain suggest that this was praying and a graveyard location because shamans believed that the God is above the sky and they were believing that if they go to the mountains, high places, they would be closer to the God and the souls of their dead relatives would rise up to the sky easier and safer. You can observe same behavior in ancient&indian American and in pre-christianity Germanic and Nordic cultures because they had same shamanistic beliefs too.


I am sure they will find more remains in this summer with archeological research, especially from these kurgans if it`s not completely robbed and thrashed already. I`ll keep you updated with this thread.

Last edited by Onur; 05-09-2011 at 05:41 AM.
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