Neverending Bulgarian identity crisis. Persians, Turks or Afghans?

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  • Onur
    Senior Member
    • Apr 2010
    • 2389

    Neverending Bulgarian identity crisis. Persians, Turks or Afghans?

    Scholars Claim Bulgarians Descended from Iran

    A Bulgaria expedition, the first of a kind, has left for Iran to search for proof for the Iranian origin of Bulgarians.

    The 20 explorers from the “Bulgaria Our Ancient Homeland” expedition will travel 9 000 km and left in the wake of the news that Bulgarians are only 20% Slaves and there genes are very close to those of people living in the Pamir region.

    The team will visit 10 ancient cities to research archeological and historic sources that can prove the connection between Bulgarians and Persian.

    A Bulgaria expedition, the fist of a kind, has left for Iran to search for proof for the Iranian origin of Bulgarians. The 20 explorers from the "Bulgaria Our Ancient Homeland" expedition will travel 9 000 km and left in the wake of the news that Bulgarians are only 20% Slaves and there genes are very close to those of people living in the Pamir region.



    ***************


    The place of origin of the Ancient Bulgarians is most likely Eastern Iran, a group of anthropologists and scientists have claimed after an exploratory trip to the Persian lands.

    The team of six scientists led by anthropology professor Alexander Iliev presented Wednesday their findings after touring Iran for 20 days, traveling 1100 km inside the country.

    We have found impressive evidence about the Iranian origin of the ancient Bulgarians,” Iliev stated.

    The findings include several prototypes of the bronze eagle of the legendary founder of Danube Bulgaria, Khan Asparuh, found in his grave in today’s Ukraine. The Bulgarian team has also researched several graves in Iran bearing similarities to the funerals of the ancient Bulgarians – as well as to those of the ancient Thracians.

    The ancient stoneworks and bricks that the expedition studied in Iran are also said to be very similar to the ones employed by the Bulgarians in the late Antiquity and early Middle Ages.

    Even though the Iranians are darker-skinned, they look very much like the Bulgarians anthropologically. Some of the words in today’s Persian language sound the same as words in Bulgarian. Their traditional musical instruments such as whistles, bagpipes, and tambourine fully correspond our folklore tradition. Over half of the carpers in the Caspian areas of Iran coincide with the ornaments, symbols, and colors of the Bulgarian carpets,” Iliev said.

    We should finally forget the thesis that the Bulgarians are Huns of Turkic origin, and should understand that we are from the Indo-European family. We are less than 20% Slavic. The Slavs are not the major element of the Bulgarian ethnicity,” stated in turn historian Georgi Bakalov.

    Long-established theories about the making up of the Bulgarian ethnicity state that the Bulgarian nation was formed through the mixing of the Bulgarians with the local population made up of Slavs and some Thracians. Before 1989 the Bulgarians were believed to have been a minor tribe of Turkic origin; new research have led scholars to believe that they were in fact more numerous and originated in Central Asia, somewhere in Iran and Afghanistan.

    The place of origin of the Ancient Bulgarians is most likely Eastern Iran, a group of anthropologists and scientists have claimed after an exploratory trip to the Persian lands. The team of six scientists led by anthropology professor Alexander Iliev presented Wednesday their findings after touring Iran for 20 days, traveling 1100 km inside the country.
  • Onur
    Senior Member
    • Apr 2010
    • 2389

    #2
    I remember that few Bulgarian scholars was also claiming that the Bulgarians has Persian origins but i also read in several articles that Iranian scholars rejects these claims.

    Now these people says that they found strong links with ancient Persian culture and similarities in 20 days of expedition. The thing is, these similar symbols, words and instruments are also found in all other Balkan countries. Now this means every Balkan people originated from Persia or Afghan mountains? Ofc the answer is simple; All these Persian elements reached Balkans at medieval times with the Turks or even with Byzantines because Persian culture effected Byzantine Empire too. This is a simple fact.


    It`s obvious that they desperately don't wanna be considered to have same roots with the other Turks or they wanna connect themselves with a culture from antiquity era. I wont be surprised if these Bulgarians demands from Turkic speaking Volga Bulgars to stop using the word "Bulgars" by claiming that they are the real Bulgars who came from Afghan mountains and Persia!!!. Volga Bulgars has this name for 1200+ years but i don't think this would matter for them either. Just like the Greeks does today to Macedonians.
    Last edited by Onur; 07-08-2010, 07:21 PM.

    Comment

    • Risto the Great
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2008
      • 15658

      #3
      Some Croatians also believe they descended from Persia as well.
      I know for a fact that I descended from Zeus and as a consequence I claim my rightful throne to the kingdom of Macedonia ..... and anywhere else that wants to believe that.
      Risto the Great
      MACEDONIA:ANHEDONIA
      "Holding my breath for the revolution."

      Hey, I wrote a bestseller. Check it out: www.ren-shen.com

      Comment

      • Onur
        Senior Member
        • Apr 2010
        • 2389

        #4
        Originally posted by Risto the Great View Post
        Some Croatians also believe they descended from Persia as well.

        LOL, really??? I didn't know that... Man, what is this antiquity madness among people? I think all of this started after the current people of Greece connected themselves with ancient Hellenes at 19th century.


        Btw i found a video of Volga Bulgars on youtube. Tbh, they look pretty similar to the Bulgars at the Balkans. Bulgarian scholar in the article says that only %20 of current Bulgarians are slavs and most likely some of these Volga Bulgars mixed with Russian slavs over the centuries too but ofc Bulgarians doesn't prefer be involved with Volga Bulgars since they speak Turkic and they are muslims


        YouTube - Tatar (Volga-Bulgar) national costumes

        Comment

        • Serdarot
          Member
          • Feb 2010
          • 605

          #5
          To understand the things the vulgari (Bulgarians) are doing, few things are good to know about them.

          - this is the "Aryan theory". JUST LIKE the modern greeks, they had "king" send by the Germans, most of you know that... with this "theory" they are serving as tool to the germans, finding some magic connections*, invisible for anyone with at least a bit of brain and logic this is very atractive "theory" for their vulgar heads, specialy after the translation of some Summerian Clay Tablets**.
          - they had the "turko-slavic theory", to try get good connections with Ottoman Empire and modern Turkey. they abandoned almost completely this "theory" after the ww2, trying to "bulgarize" the Turks, just like they did with all other non-bulgars.
          - they have the "B´lgaro-Slavic theory", lately with some changes to "thrako-b´lgaro-slavic", and with this "theory", they are trying to have good relations with most of the "slavic" countries, specialy with us***, greece, serbia, monte-negro, albania, ukraine, particulary russia...
          - they have the "Volgaro-Tataro-Slavic theory", claiming that they origin is from around the River Volga, mostly being Russian puppets with this "theory", and using it to have good relations with Russia, Ukraine and some other ex-SSSR republics, and rest of the "slavic" world.
          - they have several other similar "theories", using most of the theories simultaniosly and always trying to get in some´s but, and claiming more and more ****

          * = the germans use the term "indo-germanic" for "indo-european". in some "dark times" in germany, the "aryan theory"... ring a bell? let me help you, in diferent periods in the last few hundert years, the germans: a) they claimed the ancient greeks were germanic tribes b) they claimed they and the persians are one and same v) they claim some magic connection with the pre-germanic period of the Roman Empire, claiming that the Complete Roman History is actualy German
          ** = the bulgarians, in their vulgarity, they are always trying to claim the "oldest" Culture / Heritage. since Zacharia Sitchin and other scientist translated some of the Summerian Clay tablets, they "aryan theory" was forced (again) by those who control them hint, they had sent-by-the-germans prime minister http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simeon_Saxe-Coburg-Gotha i guess many of you dont know that only 11 - 12 years ago they were living in big powerty, with almost no economy, big corruption, etc, etc. And they got in EU, together with the Romanians, who were probably even worst... they (EU) don´t have "double standarts", they have plural, big number our ancestors were not saying just like that "kurva evropa"

          *** = trying to have good relations with us = trying to convince us "che sme b´lgari" , and not noticing that they are "orto vulgaroi"

          **** = for example, they claim so much in the Christianity, beside the fact that the real B´lgars were slaughtering Christians, were yellow race and NEVER got in Solun. Kiril i Metodie could not be B´lgars from simple reason they were from Solun and their home-spoken / mother language was Macedonian, and not Gagauz-Turkce

          enough from me about them, pathetic pishman-Makedonci, Vlachs, Turks, Serbians, Tatars and other...

          they are puppets and proud on that...
          Bratot:
          Никој не е вечен, а каузава не е нова само е адаптирана на новите услови и ќе се пренесува и понатаму.

          Comment

          • Coolski
            Member
            • Sep 2008
            • 747

            #6
            It all sounds so Nazi to me.. Hold on, they were allied with the Nazis.
            - Секој чоек и нација има можност да успеат колку шо си дозволуваат. Нема изговор.
            - Every human and nation has the ability to be as great or as weak as they allow themselves to be. No excuses.

            Comment

            • Makedonetz
              Senior Member
              • Apr 2010
              • 1080

              #7
              Man that country is harder to decipher than i thought.....were Bulgarian.....No were Macedonians....No were Russians....No were Iranians
              Makedoncite se borat
              za svoite pravdini!

              "The one who works for joining of Macedonia to Bulgaria,Greece or Serbia can consider himself as a good Bulgarian, Greek or Serb, but not a good Macedonian"
              - Goce Delchev

              Comment

              • Soldier of Macedon
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 13670

                #8
                Flimsy 'evidence' for the origins of Asparuh's horde. How many other non-Altaic rulers assumed the title of 'khan'?
                In the name of the blood and the sun, the dagger and the gun, Christ protect this soldier, a lion and a Macedonian.

                Comment

                • Frank
                  Banned
                  • Mar 2010
                  • 687

                  #9
                  The most important note is everyone semms to distance themselfs from being "Slav"

                  Macedonians are rewarded the title it seems by everyone

                  Comment

                  • Big Bad Sven
                    Senior Member
                    • Jan 2009
                    • 1528

                    #10
                    Bulgarian Slavs are funny people.

                    They claim these people as their own and as direct decendants:

                    - Ancient Thracians
                    -Ancient Moesians
                    - Proto-Bulgars (who were either Turkic, Iranic, or "Aryan" according to what ever the bulgarian slavs dream of next)
                    - The majority of the "southern slavs" e.g. modern bulgarian slavs and a lot of the serbs and macedonians.


                    Yet when the poor macedonians try to celebrate their ancient culture and heritage you always get the "experts on history" from bulgaria say that you cant be "both a slav and macedonian"............

                    Comment

                    • Bratot
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2008
                      • 2855

                      #11
                      Do you want to have more maniacally laughings?

                      "Две изречения на Исус Христос"

                      Автор :
                      Йордан Вълчев
                      Накратко :
                      Ще говорим за двете изречения, които Исус Христос произнася на неизвестен език в мъчителни за него мигове. И щом става дума за изречения, и то на неизвестен език, а пък искаме да си ги изясним, ще се наложи да правим много исторически и езикови справки, ще се обръщаме към различни автори и техни трудове. Тази книга е малка и благосклонният читател може би ще я намери четивна и лесна за разбиране.


                      Две изречения на Исус Христос - Йордан Вълчев онлайн книжарница за книги



                      - Би ли обяснил защо Библията започва с живота на евреите, а не с българите?- Започва с евреите, защото има забравени спомени и умишлено укрити факти.
                      - Тогава, с кого е воювал Моисей?
                      - Воювал е с 3-ят фараон от 4-тата додинастична власт на Египет, който не е имал Космически код и е нямал познанието на Висшите учители. Откраднал е властта от законния фараон. Но жреците впоследствие са организирали свалянето му от власт и прогонването му от тези земи. Умира в изгнание като скитника-цар.

                      - По тази логика следва, че библейските Содом и Гомол трябва да се намират в България?
                      - Да, намират се в България. Търсят ги в Палестина, защото според сегашната Библия - там са библейските земи.

                      - Ще ме ориентираш ли къде се намират днес тези земи?
                      - В равнинната част на Северна България. Това, което пише в Библията за наказанието на двата града има друго значение. Истинската причина за потъването на Содом и Гомор е небалансираното енергийно поле, което е създадено, за да се осъществи транспортен коридор за пристигащи и заминаващи кораби от други планети. Били са зададени грешни параметри на енергийните стойности и се е стигнало до енергиен взрив. И дната града, както и още 7 по-малки селища са потънали под земята, а пространството около тях се е превърнало в равнина.

                      - А Витлеем?
                      - Не случайно и древният Витлеем не е открит, след като не го търсят там, където трябва. Витлеем, където се е появил Христос е в Странджа планина, близо до гробницата на Бастет. По-точно в местността "Мишкова нива". Това място и днес е притегателно за нестинарите. Има изключително силно излъчване.

                      http://selenabg.com/index.php/2008-0...-18-16-45.html
                      According to these two Bulgarian authors, Jesus Christ was from Bulgarian origin.

                      Another gem:

                      Dracula was Bulgarian too!

                      Гневът на румънските историци и общественици този път обаче е предизвикан от книгата на нашумялата американска романистка Елизабет Костова "Историкът".
                      В тази книга Влад III Цепеш Дракула е представен като човек, който говори и пише на български език. Но румънските историци направиха фаталната грешка да признаят, че Влад Цепеш Дракула е говорил на "църковнославянски", а не на български език.
                      Съгласни сме напълно с това определение. Понятието "църковнославянски език" е рожба на руския панславизъм от ХIХ век. И с него се означава просто старобългарския език - езика на св. св. Кирил и Методий, Климент и Наум.
                      На този език в княжествата Влашко и Молдова се пишат всички административни и църковни документи до началото ХIХ век. Влашките и молдовските войводи са знаели и говорили добре този език, който, ако се съди и по имената им - Влад, Влайко, Дан, Богдан, Мирчо и т.н. - им е бил и майчин, и бащин.
                      Как става всичко това? България владее Влашко и Молдова от 640-645 г. Тогава хан Кубрат ги отнема от Аварския хаганат.



                      By their very own Bozidar Dimitrov
                      This is not the end...

                      Napoleon Bonaparta was 100% Bulgarian also!

                      “Още Георги Сава Раковски твърди, че император Наполеон Бонапарт е с български произход

                      Според Раковски от родословието на Наполеон е видно, че прадядо му 23 поколения назад се е казвал Вилхелм Българина (1034-1075), а прадядо му 21 поколения назад е носел името Булгарино фон Сетимо.

                      Много историци съвременници на Раковски и в по-късен период с насмешка са коментирали твърденията за българската кръв във вените на императора.

                      Според тях Раковски твърде наивно е тълкувал имената на предшествениците на Наполеон.

                      Миналият октомври в. "Труд" се опита да докаже българската връзка чрез интервюто с принц Шарл Жером Виктор Наполеон, прапрапраплеменник и най-прекият наследник на френския император.

                      Мисля, че има българин в семейството на Люсиен, трети брат на Наполеон, призна в интервюто принц Шарл Наполеон. Самият Шарл е потомък на най-малкия брат на Наполеон Първи и от миналата година живее на Острова на красотата, както е известен остров Корсика.

                      Шарл Наполеон дължи славата си сред корсиканците не само на роднинството си с легендарния император, но и на факта, че като зам.-кмет на столицата Аячо води битка с корупцията. На изборите през пролетта на 2003 г. съвременният Наполеон успя да победи бонапартистите, управлявали главния град на острова цели 54 години.

                      Българската преса веднага се опита да намери някаква прилика между завръщането на един друг монархически потомък в едно друго място на Европа. Оказа се, че самият Шарл Наполеон много е слушал за Симеон Сакскобургготски, но никога не го е виждал и не го познава.“

                      http://news.netinfo.bg/index.phtml?tid=40&oid=762599
                      Another theory says.. Kolumbo was Bulgarian from Varna
                      The purpose of the media is not to make you to think that the name must be changed, but to get you into debate - what name would suit us! - Bratot

                      Comment

                      • Bratot
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2008
                        • 2855

                        #12
                        The language of the Asparukh and Kuber Bulgars,
                        Vocabulary and grammar
                        by Peter Dobrev

                        The purpose of the media is not to make you to think that the name must be changed, but to get you into debate - what name would suit us! - Bratot

                        Comment

                        • Jankovska
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 1774

                          #13
                          Don't you think it's quite funny how all our neighbours change their origins claims faster than anyone i have heard off. The modern Greeks first were first Hellarses, than Macedonians, some are Tracians and who knows what else. The Bulgarians are Macedonians, Persian, Tracians, wtf. Seems we are the only ones who have always been MAcedonians and stayed that way.

                          Comment

                          • fyrOM
                            Banned
                            • Feb 2010
                            • 2180

                            #14
                            Jankovska Macedonians but with a brief brainwashing attempt by tito Bulgarians Greeks and all their supporters and masters mamkamu mrsna. Btw I heard that’s how Bulgarians swear.lol

                            Comment

                            • Onur
                              Senior Member
                              • Apr 2010
                              • 2389

                              #15
                              Originally posted by Bratot View Post
                              The language of the Asparukh and Kuber Bulgars,
                              Vocabulary and grammar
                              by Peter Dobrev

                              http://www.kroraina.com/b_lang/index.html#Bulgars

                              Thanks for the link Bratot. I`ve never saw comprehensive info about the language of the pre-Christianity Bulgars at Balkans b4 reading this.


                              Now see this;

                              The language of the Asparukh and Kuber Bulgars, Vocabulary and grammar
                              Characteristic features of the Bulgar grammar


                              The most characteristic features of the Bulgar grammar were:

                              1. Definitive articles at the end of the nouns:
                              -A, -O, -OT, -ON, -ET for words of masculine gender;
                              -VA, -SA, -NA, -TA for words of feminine gender (See the Geographic section for more details).

                              2. Words of masculine gender ending in -A: BOILA, KANA, ZERA, etc.

                              3. Suffixes -SI, -SKHI (-SHI) and -IN for the formation of possessive adjectives (ALHASI, KHUMSKHI, ESTROGIN, etc.).

                              4. Suffix -CHII for the formation of nouns denoting a trade (SHARCHII, KNIHACHII, ZDCHII, etc.).

                              5. Formation of plural forms by -AR (CHAKARAR, BOILAR, etc.).

                              6. Formation of possessive forms by the suffixes -I, -GI and -IGI (ZENTI, OKHSI, SUBIGI, TAGROGI, ITZIGI, etc.).

                              7. Oblique case being formed by the ending -I (TES – TESI in the inscription from Nagy Saint Miklos, Hungary).

                              8. Characteristic suffixes -EM and -AM in the ordinal numerals (ALEM – first, TUTOM – second, etc.).

                              9. Diminutive suffixes -UKH, -IK, -CHU (-CHO), -CHE, -CA for the personal names (Asparukh, Valukh, Irnik, Manchu, Khanchu, Trajche, Ganica, etc.).

                              10. Formation of composite determinate constructions in which every preceding word determines the next one (KANA BOILA KOLOBR – the khan's great kolobr [priest], etc.).

                              11. A characteristic conjugation of the auxiliary verb TO BE – 'E' for third person, singular, present tense, and 'BE' – for third person, singular, past tense.

                              12. A characteristic word order in which the predicate was placed at the end of the sentence (ZENTI ASO E, ANZI ZERA ITZI ASO E, etc.)



                              And see what`s the Bulgarian historian says in the article of first message;

                              “We should finally forget the thesis that the Bulgarians are Huns of Turkic origin, and should understand that we are from the Indo-European family. We are less than 20% Slavic. The Slavs are not the major element of the Bulgarian ethnicity,” stated in turn historian Georgi Bakalov.

                              I am not an expert but i i can safely say that these grammatical features cant be related with an Indo-European family. You don't have to be an expert to say that this is an agglutinative language with lots of suffixes. Also i see that all of these suffixes are present in today`s Turkish(probably in Hungarian as well);

                              [Serdarot, I am gonna use our word "Han"]

                              3. Suffixes -SI, -SKHI (-SHI) and -IN for the formation of possessive adjectives (ALHASI, KHUMSKHI, ESTROGIN, etc.).

                              Han-(in); your hotel

                              4. Suffix -CHII for the formation of nouns denoting a trade (SHARCHII, KNIHACHII, ZDCHII, etc.).

                              Han-ci, Han-dji; The one who runs/owns an hotel

                              5. Formation of plural forms by -AR (CHAKARAR, BOILAR, etc.).

                              Han-lar; The hotels as plural

                              7. Oblique case being formed by the ending -I (TES – TESI in the inscription from Nagy Saint Miklos, Hungary).

                              As "Han-i" in Turkish...

                              9. Diminutive suffixes -UKH, -IK, -CHU (-CHO), -CHE, -CA for the personal names (Asparukh, Valukh, Irnik, Manchu, Khanchu, Trajche, Ganica, etc.).

                              Kuchuk; Small
                              Han-cik; Small Hotel
                              Onur-chuk; As small, younger Onur, maybe as Onur`s son.
                              ku-chu: dog puppies or Turkish word for small dogs.

                              12. A characteristic word order in which the predicate was placed at the end of the sentence (ZENTI ASO E, ANZI ZERA ITZI ASO E,etc.)

                              This is the classic word order of all Uralic/Altaic languages as "Subject-Object-Verb"

                              *********************************



                              I am sure that at least Serdarot will understand what i meant with all this here even tough he doesn't know Turkish

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