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Old 01-07-2011, 10:57 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Agamoi Thytai View Post
Listen,Mr. white racial purity.This guy may have been an excellent historian,philologist,author e.t.c but he was definitely not an anthropologist or genetist.I don't know whether he claimed modern Greeks are "sub-saharans" as your racistic mind alludes,however he did it not since you haven't shown yet anything of the sort
Mr wiki,
what don't you understand? Ancient Greece and Modern Greece are two different subjects. This subject is "Do Ancient Greeks Have African Origins" and as you can see there is plenty of evidence to suggest a big fat Yes. What's all this insecurity about????? we are not talking about modern Greeks who relate to Turks/Albanians/Vlach.

And regarding this racist picture you are trying to paint of me, i think everyone know who the real racist is. Unlike you and a large majority of your racist Nation, This guy that you seem to discredit (Frank M. Snowden) proves that the Negros were tolerated in Ancient times. Lets look at your WIKI link to see what i mean, shall we?
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He documented that in ancient Rome and Greece racial prejudice was not an issue. Much of this, according to Snowden, is because most of the blacks they encountered were not slaves. Most slaves in the Roman Empire were white. Most of the blacks they met were warriors, statesmen, and mercenaries. Therefore, blacks were not subjected to the racism of modern civilization.
He is hardly promoting racism nor does he sound like a Nazi. You on the other hand, denying fact, and getting upset that i show Black Hellenes did exist, clearly shows the racial intolerance with in you. Hitler also would have reacted just like you. Do you think he would have promoted this like i do?
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Old 01-07-2011, 11:34 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Akzion
Let's return to Earth
You equate Wikipedia to earth? Lol.
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Originally Posted by Agamoi Thytai
Greek is certainly an IE language and no serious linguist ever questioned it.
Greek vocabulary consists of a significant proportion of non IE words, no serious linguist would ever deny that. The dominant element (among the rest) during the formation of the Proto-Greek language was IE and that is why Greek has an essentially IE grammar, syntax and other features. The non IE words need not all necessarily come from 'Black' Africans, they could also have come from other groups that spoke Afro-Asiatic languages.
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I've shown to you the view of a famous anthropologist on that and here are some others too:
The percentage of Afro-Asiatic DNA in Greece may now be hard to trace as a result of migrations, ethnic cleansing, etc. However, this doesn't deny what was clearly recorded over countless centuries during antiquity with regard to the African presence. Ethiopian, Aramaic and Arabic are all Afro-Asiatic languages, yet the genetic differences between Ethiopians on the one hand, and Lebanese people on the other, are surely to be vast in several cases. I am always amused at how Greeks like yourself try and paint this 'black and white' (figuratively speaking, of course) image of Greek history where anything even remotely 'non-Greek' is either claimed as 'Greek' or disregarded altogether.
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Old 01-07-2011, 11:40 PM   #43
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The difficulty of providing serious answers to these questions starts with the fact that the science which recognizes, analyzes and codifies anthropological-racial features has been recently (after World War II) illegitimized (as a Nazis thing) and marginalized. If this science was alive today we would be able to
(a) describe my or yours racial features in less that 10 lines
(b) find the distribution and correlation of these features in the population of a country (e.g. Greece)
(c) relate them historically and geographically with nations and tribes
(d) record changes and evolution of them, etc
Yet, it seems that everybody’s afraid of the political connotations and consequences of such a scientific knowledge.

Until then, we’ll stay with lines as “this could be Greek” or “this looks like Albanian to me”, etc.
Akzion,
The Ancient people can come back alive and hit you over the head and say "LOOK AT ME" and still you will look for another avenue for proof. You guys are in such denial, its ridiculous.

Your Friend Agamoi Thytai cried to George "show me one scholar" to back an argument once.
I have produced, and used just little of my time of research, regarding this subject. I have produced Modern Historians and Authors who used anthropological, archaeological, historical and sources from Classical literature of Greece and Rome,
Such as: J.A. Rogers, Parker, C.A. Winters, R.J. Hopper, Dr. Anna Morpurgo Davies, Robert K.G. Temple, Graves, Leo Frobenius, Frank M. Snowden, JR. Howard University (who's work was originally published in American Anthropologist)

I also showed Ancient writers including Latin classical writers:
Plutarch, Ovid(Publius Ovidius Naso: 20 March 43 BC – AD 17/18), Apollonius Rhodius, Herodotus, Pindar, Hesiod, perusti (Lucan 4.679), furvi (Arnoloius, Adversus Nationes , 6.5) and nigri (Anthologia Latina, 155,no.183). Strabo, Pelasgi, Pliny,

Yet not enough, or they are not to be taken serious according to Agamoi Thytai.

I can show you Ancient artifacts depicting Negroid Hellenes. But i have no doubt you will deny it again.

By the way, Science has tried with there DNA projects, but that to gets knocked on the head.

You guys are running out of options dude. You are drowning, stop fighting it.
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Old 01-08-2011, 12:08 AM   #44
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THE BLACK GREEKS

To deny the African origin of Grecian civilization the Eurocentrists attack Martin Bernal's book: Black Athena. This book has nothing to do with Afrocentrism. In the two volumes published thus far, Bernal maintains that Semites from Phoenicia and the Semitic Hyksos speaking rulers of Egypt, took civilization to Greece, not Black Africans.

J.A. Rogers in Sex and Race, Parker, Diop and DuBois on the other hand, are Afrocentric scholars. These scholars have reviewed the writings of the classical authors, the anthropological, linguistic and historical evidence to reach the conclusion that the ancient Greeks were blacks and that the European Greeks learned the liberal arts and sciences from their "black ancestors" who first settled Greece and the Egyptians.

According to the Olympian Creation Myth the earliest groups to appear on earth were the Libyco-Thracians .The Libyans were Proto-Saharans, as were the original Thracians. Some Thracians were descendants of the Kushite and Egyptian troops established at Trace, by Sesostris (Thutmose III or Ramses II), when he conquered Asia and Europe.(Diop 1991; Winters 1983a,1984b,1985a)

Many of the so-called Greek myths are in reality historical texts which show the ancient lifestyle of the pre-Aryans in Greece and the transition from Pelasgian matriarchy to Greek-Aryan patriarchy. The term Amazon was often used by the Aryans to denote matriarchal societies living on the Black Sea. The battle between Thesus and the Amazons, led by Queen Melanippe, records the conflicts between the ancient Aryan-Greeks and the Libyans settled around the Black Sea.

Dr. Lefkowitz (1992) and Snowden (1992,1976) perpetuate the myth that the only blacks in ancient Europe were slaves or mercenaries. This is false the Greek historical works make it clear that many ancient settlers of the Aegean came from Africa , especially the Garamantes and Pelasgians. G. W. Parker wrote that: "I need not go into details concerning the ethnical relations of the Romans, since they, too are Mediterranean and are closely related to the same African confederation of races ...[situated in Greece]. Aeneas, their mythical founder of Troy. The Aenead, like the Illiad, and Odyssey and all other of the world's great epics, is the poetic story dealing with African people". The heroes of these tales used long shields, the characteristic shields of the Indo-European speaking Greeks were round.

The Eurocentrists attempt to prove there was "considerable cultural and linguistic continuity from the twelfth century to the eight century BC" ,in the Aegean . Yet there is no way it can be proven that Indo-European Greeks have always been in Greece. This view on the continuity between the Linear B Greeks and later Greeks held by Lefkowitz is disputed by Hopper who noted that " after all, so much which characterizes Minoan Crete seems wholly alien to later Greece, despite the efforts of scholars to detect 'continuity' " .

Given the wealth of Afrocentric literature it would seem logical that the Eurocentric "resisters" review these works, and point out the weaknesses within these text to prove that Afrocen- trism is a "myth" (Lefkowitz 1992). But, instead of doing just this, the "resisters" simply mention text written by Afrocentric scholars and then attack Black Athena, as if Afrocentrism is based solely on this text.

Dr. Molefi Kete Asante has observed that: " The aim is to open [Afrocentric] fields of inquiry and to expand human dialogue around questions of social, economic, historical and cultural concern. Everything must be run through the sieve of doubt until one hits the bedrock of truth. Our methods, based on the idea of African centeredness, are meant to establish a clear pattern of discourse that may be followed by others". Based on this definition Black Athena, is not an Afrocentric work. This book is meant to imply that the Hyksos or Semitic speaking west Asians developed civilization in Greece not the blacks. This book because of its lack of African centeredness fails the test of an Afrocentric work..

Black Athena, is not the Afrocentric Bible on Black Egypt. We doubt that Cheikh Anta Diop would even agree with most of the thesis of this book. Trigger observed that:

"Although he [Bernal] has acquired an enthusiastic following among

exponents of negritude and occasionally describes some of the Egyptian

Pharaohs as "black" or "Nubian", he aligns himself not with Anta Diop but with more moderate "Negro intellectuals"...who...do see Egypt as essentially African" .

Bernal (1987,1991) believes that the Greeks resulted from a mixture of European and (Semitic speaking) Mediterranean people.

In volume 2 of Black Athena , Bernal outlines his thesis that the "Egyptians" founded Greek civilization. But these "Egyptians" are not blacks, they are Semitic speakers. Bernal (1991) makes it clear that he believes that the civilization of the Aegean was founded by Semitic speaking Phoenicians, and the Semitic speaking Hyksos Dynasty of Egypt.

Bernal (1991) sees Hyksos invaders as Hurrian, Semitic, Indo-Iranian speakers. As a result he believes that the Danaos and Kadmeans or Egyptian founders of Thebes in Greece, were the Hyksos. (Bernal 1991, p.495) In general, Bernal (1991) believes that when the Hyksos were driven from Egypt, they settled in the Aegean and developed civilization.

Bernal's view of the Hyksos as the founders of Grecian civilization has nothing to do with the work of Afrocentric scholars. The problem with Bernal (1991) is that he believes that the "Pre-Hellenes" or Pelasgian people were Indo-European speakers. This view is not held by Afrocentric scholars who recognize that the founders of Athens and Attica were blacks. Diop (1974,1991) and Clyde Ahmad Winters (1983b) make it clear that Blacks came to Greece in prehistoric times and remarried in Greece in significant numbers until classical times. Therefore the apparent errors in Bernal's Black Athena, should not be seen as proving that Afrocentric scholars are wrong. These errors only prove that Bernal (1991) has failed to prove that the Hyksos founded civilization in the Aegean.

Afrocentric scholars are accused of using old and outdated sources. This is true of some Afrocentric scholars who have written books based on secondary sources. Yet, those Afrocentric scholars such as DuBois, Diop (1974,1991), J.A. Rogers, Parker (1917,1918), Winters (1983b,1985b,1989a,1989b) use up-to-date sources to prove historical facts about the African past, even before Diop used primary sources to illuminate the African past. These Afrocentric ,scholars of African and African-American origin because of their unique character as a black people unaware of their specific original African home have not been blinded by ethnocentrism to look for the history of blacks in one part of Africa and the world. These scholars have sought to illuminate the African past throughout the world.

For example, Parker (1917,1918) used anthropological, archaeological, historical and classical sources to prove that blacks once lived in the Aegean. Parker (1917,1918) used the Greek classics to prove that the Pelasgians were of African origin. He also discussed the origin stories about the Pelasgic founders of selected Grecian cities and proved that these men were blacks and not Indo-Europeans. Parker (1917, pp.341-42) also observed that "the great Grecian epics are epics of an African people and Helen, the cause of the Trojan war, must henceforth be conceived as a beautiful brown skin girl" . These Africans sailed to the Greece from North Africa.

Early boat used by the ancient Pelasgians in Greece

Using archaeological evidence and the classical literature C.A. Winters (1983b) explained how the African/Black founders of Grecian civilization originally came from the ancient Sahara. Winters(1983b) makes it clear that these Blacks came to the Aegean in two waves 1) the Garamantes a Malinke speaking people that now live along the Niger river, but formerly lived in the Fezzan region of Libya; and 2) the Egyptians, Phoenicians and East Africans who were recorded in Greece's history as the Pelasgians. The Pelasgian civilization has been discussed in detail by Parker (1917,1918).

The Pelasgians founded many cities. The Pelasgian founding of Athens is noted by Plutarch in Theseus 12, and Ovid in Metamorphosis vii, 402 ff. According to Herodotus vii.91, the Pelasgians also founded Thebes. Many of these Athenians may have introduced the Geometric style to Greece during the so-called Dark Ages (1200- 600 BC).



This is fine Geometric Style piece dating to the "Dark Age" period of Greece note

the broad shoulders depicted on this piece of art.

Winters (1983b) makes it clear that the Garamantes founded the Greek cities of Thrace, Minoan Crete and Attica. The Garamantes were also called Carians by the Indo-European Greeks.

The Garamantes or Carians originally lived in the Fezzan. These Garamante were described by the Latin classical writers as black or dark skinned: perusti (Lucan 4.679), furvi (Arnoloius, Adversus Nationes , 6.5) and nigri (Anthologia Latina, 155,no.183).

As a result of the research of Parker (1917,1918) and Winters (1983b), when Lefkowitz (1992) argues that Socrates could not have been black because he was an Athenian citizen. Because it is her opinion that the Athenians were not of African origin eventhough Greek traditions make it clear that Pelasgians which were not Indo-European speakers founded this city. As a result, she fails to prove Socrates' racial heritage because the Greeks made it clear that the founders of Athens were Pelasgians or Blacks. Moreover, the earliest art from Athens known as the Geometric style depict African or Black

people.



On this Athenean funeral vase (c. 750 BC) the dead and

Those who weep for him in this Geometric Style pottery have Negroid features

Lefkowitz noted that "Thus , if Socrates and his parents had dark skin and other African racial features, some of his contemporaries would have been likely to mention it...Unless, of course, all the rest of the Athenians also had African origins; but then why are they not depicted as Africans in the art? " This question is easily answered. There are numerous Africans depicted in Greek art, but rather than admit that some of these blacks were descendants of the Pelasgian and Garamante groups they are all referred too as Ethiopian slaves or mercenaries (Snowden 1976).

The work of Diop (1974,1991), Parker (1917,1918) and Winters (1983b) make it clear that the Afrocentric discussion of the African influence in the Aegean is not based solely on the work of Bernal (1987,1991) as the "resisters" would have us believe. Use of Bernal (1991) as a method to dispute the findings of the Afrocentrists is groundless because his work fails to acknowledge the African origin of the Pelasgians.

BLACKS IN THE AEGEAN

The earliest inhabitants of Greece and the Aegean Islands were Blacks from ancient Libya, Palestine, and Asia Minor. These Blacks founded Athens, Thebes Thera and Attica. They occupied much of the mainland and all the Aegean Islands. These Blacks are frequently depicted in the art associated with the so-called Dark Ages (1200-600 BC). There are also fine frescos from Thera (Sanorin) Island which illustrate one of the Agean cities occupied by these Blacks during the 16th and 15th centuries BC.



This is one of the Thera Frescos. Note the busy atmosphere

Associated with the Pelasgian cities during the 16th Century BC

Although these people of the Heroic age came from diverse origins, the Aryan-Greeks called them Pelasgians. According to the Greeks, the first man was Pelasgus--ancestor of the Pelasgians. The Pelasgians were a combination of different Black tribes called Achaeans, Cadmeans, Leleges, Carians or Garamantes.

The term Pelasgian was applied to all these pre-Hellenic inhabitants of Greece. R.J. Hopper, in The Early Greeks, noted that "indeed the classical Greeks believed in the separate existence of diverse ethnic elements side by side, and thought particularly of the Pelasgians in this connection".

According to tradition, the Pelasgians inhabited Arcadia and many Aegean Islands. These Blacks took their own writing to Greece which was later used by the Aryan-Greeks. According to Herodotus quadrigas or four-horse chariots were introduced to Greeks by the Libyans .

The Aryan-Greeks adopted the language of the Pelasgians and Egyptians. The linguistic evidence shows that there was a differentiation of Greece into East Greek and West Greek. The Black Greeks spoke East Greek (Achaioi or Achaean). West Greek was spoken by the Dorian or Aryan Greeks. The earliest Aryan tribe called Ionians spoke a dialect of East Greek called Aeolic.

Many classical scholars teach the world that the Greek language is entirely Indo-European. This view of Greek is wrong.

Dr. Anna Morpurgo Davies, has made it clear that "less than 40% of the words which have an Indo-European etymology". According to Dr. Davies, 52.2 % of the Greek terms in Chantraine's Dictionnaire Etymologique de la langue Grecque (1968) have an unknown etymology. The mixed nature of the Greek language results from the early settlement of the Aegean by Blacks from Africa.

Some of these words are of African origin. Robert K.G. Temple, in The Sirius Mystery, shows that many of the most common words of the Greek vocabulary are of Egyptian origin. Diop (1991) has also discussed the Egyptian origin for many Greek terms.

GARAMANTES

Some of the first African colonists to arrive in Greece came from Crete. These Cretans were called Garamantes. After the goddess Ker or Car, these people also came to be also known as the Carians. The Carians spoke a Mande languages.



A Pelasgian boat from Thera



These people usually sailed to the Islands in Aegean and the surrounding coast were they established prosperous trading communities.

There is frequent mention of the Garamantes of the Fezzan, in Classical literature of Greece and Rome. The Garamantes were recognized as a Black tribe. They were known to the Greeks and Romans as dark skinned. In Ptolemy (I.8.5.,p.31) a Garamante slave was described as having a body the color of pitch or wholly black.

Graves (1980) and Leo Frobenius linked the Garamante to the ancient empire of Ghana (c.300 BC to A.D. 1100). Graves (1980) claims that the term Garamante is the Greek plural for Garama or Garamas. He said that the present Jarama or Jarma are the descendants of the Garamante; and that the Jarama live near the Niger river.

The Olympian creation myth, as recorded by Pindar in Fragment , and Apollonius Rhodius, makes it clear that the Garamantes early colonized Greece. Their descendants were called Carians. The Carians practiced apiculture. As in Africa the Carians practiced matrilineal descent. According to Herodotus , even up until his time the Carians took the name of their mother.

Many of the Greek myths are historical text which discuss the transition of Greece from an matriarchal society to a patriarchal Aryan society. The term Amazon was often used by the Aryans to denote matriarchal societies living on the Black Sea. The battle between Thesus and the Amazons, led by Queen Melanippe, records the conflicts between the ancient Aryan-Greeks and the Libyco-Nubians settled around the Black Sea.

The classical Carians and Egyptians were very close. Having originated in the Fertile African Crescent they had similar gods and cultural traditions dating back to the Proto-Saharan period.

The Garamantes founded Attica, where they worked the mines at Laureium. Demeter, the goddess of agriculture and fruitfulness, came from the Fezzan (Libya) by way of Crete. It was Demeter who took poppy seeds and figs to Europe.

Apollonius Rhodius (.iv.1310) tells us that the goddess Athene was born beside Lake Triton in Libya. The goddess Athene, was called Neith by the Egyptians and Nia by the Cretans in Linear A writing. This shows that the Garamantes took this god to Europe in addition to Demeter and Amon (=Ammon ,Amma).

By 3000 BC, the Garamantes has spread their influence to Thrace and early Hellenic Greece. Hesiod, who was a Kadmean (i.e., of Egyptian descent), in Works and Days , said that before the Hellenic invasion the Grecian people lived in peace and tranquility and had matriarchal societies. The name Europe comes from Aerope, the daughter of King Catreus, a Cretan. Thucydides observed that:

"The first person known to us by tradition as having

established a navy is Minos. He made himself master

of what is now called the Hellenic sea, and ruled over

the Cyclades into most of which he sent the first colo-

nies, expelling the Carians and appointing his own sons

as governors; and thus did his best to put down piracy

in these waters, a necessary step to secure the revenues

for his own use".

Thus we find that many Cretans also settled much of mainland southern Europe.

THE PELASGIANS

The Greeks often called the first inhabitants of Greece Pelasgians. The Greek writers claimed that Pelasgus, the great ancestor of the Pelasgians was the first man. The Pelasgians were a combination of diverse Black tribes which included the Achaeans , Kadmeans, and Leleges. The Garamantes were also often called Pelasgians by some classical writers. Strabo said "that the Pelasgi, as indeed the most ancient nation, were diffused through all Greece, and especially among the Aeolians".

The city of Argo was founded by Phoroneus, the father of Pelasgus, Iasus and Agenor. It was these folks who divided the Peloponnese between them.

Herodotus referred to the Pelasgians as "venerable ancestors". He said that the first Athenians "they were Pelasgi, the later possessing the country now designed Hellas". The Pelasgian founding of Athens is also noted by Plutarch in Theseus 12, and Ovid in Metamorphosis vii.402ff. According to Herodotus vii.91, the Pelasgians also founded Thebes in Europe. Pausanias, noted that "The Arcadians make mention of Pelasgus as the first person who existed in their country. From this king the whole region took the name Pilasgia". Hopper noted that the Pelasgians founded Attica.

The Black immigrants from Canaan were also settled in the Aegean at Argolis. They called themselves the "Sons of Abas". Many of the Melampodes later took part of Argolis away from the Canaanites.

The earliest Greek alphabet was made by the Pelasgians, it was lost and later reintroduced by Kadmus to Boeotia. Another Pelasgian, Evander of Arcadia introduced writing to the Italians. This script was used to make the first fifteen characters of the Latin script according to Pliny and Plutarch.



Pelasgians from Thera

Pliny says that one of the Aegean scripts was created by an Egyptian named Menos. An Egyptian creation of one of the early Greek alphabets is not out of the question because the early Predynastic Egyptians used the Proto-Saharan script as did the founders of the 12th Dynasty. Moreover, the Tiles of Rameses II, published by F. Hitching, in The Mysterious World, are analogous to the early Greek characters.

EGYPTIANS

The Egyptians established many colonies in ancient Europe. The Egyptians called themselves Melampodes or "Blackfeet". The Egyptians were also called Danaans in Greek history. According to Hyainus in Fabula, and Apollonius Rhodius when the Danaans came to Greece they were a combination of diverse African tribes.

When the Danaans came to Greece they took away part of Argolis from the Canaanites. The Danaans took the Mysteries of Themoporia and the oracle of Dodona to Greece. This view is supported by the discovery of an inscribed stone in the Peloponnese that had Egyptian writing on it dating to the Vth Dynasty of Egypt. Greek traditions speak of Egyptian colonies founded by Cecrops who settled Atica, Danaus the brother of Aegyptus was the founder of Argolis. Danaus is alleged to have taught the Greeks agriculture and metallurgy.

MYCENEANS

The ancient Myceneans were Blacks. These ancient people came from Crete, and the Western Sahara. Alain Anselin has shown how many of these Myceneans spoke Dravidian languages especially the Termils of Asia Minor.

The cities of Troy, Mycenae, Tiryns, Thebes and Orochomenos were founded by the Eteocretans or "Real Minoans", as opposed to the later Greco-Cretans. These Eteocretans spoke a Manding language.



Ring made of gold depicting a Stag hunt (c. 1500BC)

(Note the Afro hairstyle worn by the Mycenaeans)



Mycenean art gives ample evidence of the rich and varied culture shared by the Africans of Mycenae. Africans are depicted in hunting and war motifs on artifacts recovered from the Shaft Graves at Mycenae.

The best known African artifacts from Mycenae include the "Stag Hunt", "Lion and Spearman Hunt" and the "Siege Scene" depicted on the Silver Rhyton Cup. All of these artifacts date to 1500 BC

Achaeans

By 1200 BC, much of the Mycenae civilization was under the control the Achaeans. The Achaeans later founded other city-states in Greece. After conquering the Mycenaeans, the Achaeans formed the Greek states of Peloponnesus. Their major cities: Mycenae and Tiryns in Argolis, and Pylos Messenia were originally founded by other Pelasgian groups.





Here is a Geometric Style (or Achaean) scene of an

Overturned boat (c. 850 BC) for Athens



Between 1200-800 BC, the Achaeans began to take control of the Greek mainland , the southern part of the Balkan Peninsula, Crete and numerous islands in the Aegean Sea. The Achaeans conquered the Nubian, Egyptian and Phoenician armies at Troy. Some of the troops fighting with the Achaeans were Indo-European speaking people.

ORIGIN OF THE INDO-EUROPEANS

There is disagreement over where the Europeans originated and when they spread across Europe. Dr. M. Gimbutas maintains that Europeans had their origin in the Pontic steppe country on the north coast of the Black Sea and began to expand into Europe as Kurgan nomads after 4000 BC In 1987, Dr. C. Renfrew hypothesized that the Indo-Europeans lived in eastern Anatolia and spread into Europe around 7000 years ago with the spread of agriculture. Both of these views have little support based upon the ancestral culture terms used by the Proto-Indo-European which are predominately of non Indo-European (I-E) origin. After a comparison of the linguistic, agricultural and genetic evidence researchers have found little support for both of these theories. Sokal et al, noted that: "If the IEs originated in situ by local differentiation only, there should be no significant partial correlation , since geography should fully explain the observed genetic and linguistic distances. This was not the case. If the genetics-language correlation were entirely due to the spread of populations accompanying the origin of

agriculture, then the origin-of-agriculture model should suffice, or at least there should be some effect due to origin of agriculture. But we saw that origin-of-agriculture distances (OOA) cannot reduce the partial correlations remaining after geography has been held constant."

The genetic evidence supporting the absence of an Indo-European origin in the Anatolian region is supported by the historical and archaeological evidence. The north and east of Anatolia was inhabited by non-Indo-European speakers. It appears that Indo-Europeans did not enter Anatolia until sometime between 2000 -1800 BC At this time we note the appearance of Indo-European (Hittite) names in the literary records of the Old Kingdom of Hatti. And at least as late as 1900 BC Anatolia was basically still Hattian.

The usual method of Indo-European and Chinese invasion was two-fold. First, they settles in a country in small groups and were partly assimilated. Over a period of time their numbers increased. Once they reach a numerical majority they joined forces with other Indo-European speaking groups to militarily overthrow the original inhabitants in a specific area and take political power. Since these communities occupied by the blacks often saw themselves as residents of a city-state, they would ignored the defeat of their neighbors. This typified their second form of invasion of the countries formerly ruled by the Proto-Saharans/Kushites/Blacks.

Blacks have failed even today to recognize that even though whites are highly nationalistic and engaged in numerous fratricidal wars, they will unify temporarily to defeat non-European people. As a result in case where the Blacks have been politically organized into states or Empires, rather than isolated city-states, the large political units have lasted for hundreds of years as typified by ancient Egypt, Axum, Mali and ancient Ghana.

D'iakonov on the other hand, believes that the Indo-Europeans (I-E) homeland was the Balkan-Carpathian region. He has shown that the culture terms of the I-E group indicate that they made their way across forest-steppe and deciduous forest zones to settle other parts of the world. This view is highly probable.

The view that these people were farmers seem unlikely, since the ideal farming areas in Europe were already settled by the Anu and people from the Fertile African Crescent as discussed in this unit. Instead of being farmers the I-E people were originally nomads.

The steppes could not have been the homeland of the Indo-Europeans because it was heavily occupied by the Proto-Saharan people until after 1300 B.C.In support of an early presence of Indo-European speakers on the steppes many scholars maintain that the Andronovo cultures and wheeled vehicles are markers of Indo-European "High" culture.

But this theory has been proven to be unsupportable by the archeological and linguistic data. The civilizations and economy that characterized "Old Europe" are foreign to the Indo-European culture portrayed in the Indo-Aryan literature.

Many scholars use the chariot and horsemanship as an ethnic marker for the Indo-Europeans. But it can not be proven that the horse drawn chariot was an exclusive Indo-European marker. The wheeled vehicles were used in Mesopotamia and the Indus Valley before the 3rd millennium. The presence of pre-Dynasty and early Dynasty wheeled toy animals from Egypt and elsewhere support the view that the wheel was a well known technology to the Kushites before the expansion of the Indo Europeans.

This view is further supported by the fact that the IE roots for "wheel" number four. Use of a number to signify the "wheel" illustrates that this technological innovation must have come from elsewhere and was later adopted by the Proto-Indo-Europeans after there dispersal.

The horse can not be a marker for the Indo-European dispersal either. It would appear that in the steppes, the horse was not intensively used until the iron age. V.M. Masson believes that horse domestication and riding developed in the 1st millennium BC, on the steppes.

The early I-E were Kurgan nomadic warriors. Kurgan is a name used by archaeologist for the early Europeans.The term I-E does not refer to a racial type, because many of the ancient I-E speakers may have been black , given the fact that among the depictions of the People of the Sea on Egyptian monuments their are African people. But today the only I-E people we have are Caucasian.

Evolving in the Caucasus mountains, the Kurgan folk were pastoralist. They herded cattle, pigs and sheep.

The Kurgans were a very destructive people. They destroyed vast regions of forest across Europe. By the Fourth millennium BC, wide tracts of forests were gone in Europe. Upon their encounter with civilized Africoid communities, the latter were enslaved while the Kurgans adopted their culture. The Kurgan warriors used these slaves to grow grain.

The Indo-Europeans remained an insignificant group until they learned the art of metal working from the Hittites of Asia Minor. This along with natural disasters that took place around the world after 1600 BC, helped the Kurgans to infiltrate civilized areas in the Aegean and Indus Valley.

The Kurgan people are also known as the Battle Axe/ Corded Ware Folk. By the Third millennium BC, the Kurgan were breeding horses and organized themselves into militarized chiefdoms. The symbol of the warrior class was the horned helmet common to the Sea Folk and later Vikings. Their common weapon was the double axe.

The Kurgan folk in small numbers slowly migrated into the centers of civilization, first in northern Mesopotamia, then India. By 3500 BC, the Kurgans were invading the Caucasus region. Beginning in 3700 B.C., Old European settlements had walls built around them to keep out the Kurgan warriors.

These early I-E people practiced human sacrifice. At the death of a man his wife was often killed and buried with him.

The Kurgan people mixed with the indigenous Africoid people. Some of them were made slaves by the warrior elites. If black communities were more powerful than the Kurgans, they formed an alliance between themselves and conquered weaker groups. Once the Kurgan tribe became stronger it would knock off its former ally.

The People of the Sea began to infiltrate the Aegean area after 1200 BC. These people usually wore horn helmets and used round shields

Pictures of these nomadic warriors are depicted in courtyard of Medinet Habu, in Egypt. These white Japhetic Philistine folk were relocated in Palestine, where two hundred years later they destroyed Sidon and Troy. This Philistine Kurgan ethnic group is called Phrs in Egyptian documents.

Another group of Kurgan tribes took Crete. From bases in Crete, they invaded North Africa west of Egypt. These Kurgan tribesmen were called Rebou, by the Egyptians. This group formed the white Libyan population which occupied much of the Delta region of Egypt, before the founding of Carthage by the Phoenicians.

By 1300 BC, the Dorian tribes invaded Greece and defeated the Achaeans. The Dorian conquest of Mycenae led to Crete becoming a major center of Achaean civilization. The Dorians learned the art of writing from the Phoenicians.

Among the early I-E social relations were patriarchal. The hereditary warrior class controlled the best lands and large slave populations made up mainly of the native Blacks and poor Indo-European population. The landless people served as serfs for the ruling class made up of warriors.

Each Indo-European ethnic group was led by a Basileus. He was military commander, judge and high priest.

In summary the myths , archaeological and historical evidence all indicate that Europe was not the homeland of the White race. It would appear from the evidence that the ancient Greeks were Blacks. Moreover, it is clear that these blacks taught the Europeans civilization and government and that these symbols of government and civilization can not be claimed solely as the property of Europeans.

The historical, archaeological and linguistic evidence proves that contemporary ancient history text must be re-written to reflect that the blacks in Europe were not just slaves, but founders of Grecian civilization.. These new history text must, for the first time reflect of the African role in history so that black children and white children will know the truth about history, and not just false hoods that deny the existence of a native Grecian African role in the rise of ancient Greco-Roman civilization.

These blacks in Greece just like African-Americans today built the culture and civilization of ancient Greece. But their efforts, unfairly have been ignored and over looked by scholars who knew the truth, but hid this truth to validate White World Supremacy.
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Old 01-08-2011, 12:12 AM   #45
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"If the ROOT is STRONG the FRUIT is SWEET!"

-African Proverb-

"The Principles of Truth are SEVEN; he who knows this,
understandingly possesses the Magic Key before whose touch all the doors of the Temple fly open."

-Kybalion-

Symbolizes The Precious Blood, The Wounded Yet, Strong Heart, The Deep, Yet Caring Soul Of Our People; Past, Present And Future, The History Of Blood Loss, The History Of Greatness Each Day, And The History Of Our Past, Present And Future Yet, Un-Conquerable Achievements.


Symbolizes The Powerful Darkness And Vast Varieties Of Our Skin Color, The Power That We As People Posses Each And Every Day
Whether We Realize It Or Not!!










Symbolizes The Un-Selfish And Still Plentiful Mother Earth And All Of Her
Fruits And Her Sweet Bearings, That Help Create Life, Maintain Life,
And When She Is Angered
By People's Everyday Stupidity, She And The Creator Will Destroy LIfe.


Symbolizes, The Richness Of Our Mother Land, The Intelligence Of Our People, And The Warmth Of Our Sun, Which Shines From The Heavens Of Our All- Knowing Spirits And Our Unforgotten-Ancestors, Upon Us All, Creating Life.
African secret societies were and still are common. They were an integral part of society and served several functions. Firstly they served as rituals of adulthood. It was these societies that would declare one a man or woman after having endured both mental and physical testing. An even greater task of these societies was the upliftment of the soul. It was through these societies that one's soul could seek salvation and rise from the dead level of a man to that of a living god. And thus in Africa's societies it was held that when the indwelling intelligence (soul) was allowed to extend its functions to the external life of the individual and society, harmony and prosperity was attained.
Though these secret societies can be found throughout all of Africa, no place better illustrates their greatest achievements more so than the ancient Nile Valley. Some of the oldest spiritual beliefs come out of the Nile Valley Region of Africa. Here is the land where golden pyramids and the great Her-Em-Akhet still stand as everlasting devotion to spirituality. Here is the land where great temples such as the Ipet-Isut were erected to Amen, Auset, and Ptah. It was here that Ta-Seti, Kemet, Puanit and Itiopi rose to glory. It was here that man and woman first learned that they could die, be resurrected and live again. Here was the land that gave birth to the most ancient and secret societies. Here is the "Land of Beginnings"---If-rui-Ka.




KMT: BLACK OR WHITE?

The racial make-up of the ancient Nile Valley and of the people of Kemet (Egypt) in particular, continues to be a topic of controversy. Within the media and scholarly world, there has been and continues to exist an attempt to make the ancient Kemetans anything but the Africans they were.
THE MEDITERRANEAN MYTH

Perhaps the most absurd yet widely upheld claim of the non-Africaness of the ancient Kemetans has been the myth of the Mediterranean Race. According to those who endorse and purport this claim, the people of ancient Kemet were not Africans but rather inhabitants of the Near East. These people, who conveniently fall into the category of Caucasian, are the creators and maintainers of Kemetan civilization. These Caucasians are known as Mediterraneans, Hamites, Dark-Whites, Eurafricans, and other confusing and contradictory names. This theory becomes even more ludicrous when one takes a glimpse at what is regarded as a typical Mediterranean.


Supporters of the Mediterranean Race or Hamitic hypothesis label this man a Caucasian for he does not fit the phenotype of the "true African"(i.e. his nose is too straight and his lips are not thick enough). In reality the "true African" does not exist as the continent holds a variety of different Black Africoid types. So ridiculous is the Mediterranean Race hypothesis, if globally applied it would label most Africans and nearly all Blacks throughout the Diaspora Dark Whites or Eurafricans. When all is said and done it is actually easier to prove the Kemetans Black Africans than anything or anyone else. Here are several items of proof regarding the peopling of Ancient Kemet.



Kemet can be roughly translated as the "Land of the Blacks."
It was the Greeks who would renamed it Egypt.
There was no 'Egypt' before the black king from whose name it was indirectly derived. Before that the country was called Chem (Khem) or Chemi (Khemi)- another name indicating its black inhabitants, and not the color of the soil, as some writers have needlessly strained themselves in asserting.
-Chancellor Williams,
African Historian-



The ancient Kemetans state continually that they originated in the south.

The Edfu Text is an important source document on the early history of the Nile Valley. This famous inscription, found in the Temple of Horus at Edfu, gives an account of the origin of Egyptian civilization. According to this record, civilization was brought from the south by a band of invaders under the leadership of King Horus. John G. Jackson, African Historian
Eyewitness accounts describe the people of Kemet as Blacks.


...several Egyptians told me that in their opinion the Colchians were descended from soldiers of Seosteris. I had conjectured as much myself from two pointers, firstly because they have black skins and kinky hair...alone among mankind, the Egyptians and Ethiopians have practiced circumcision since time immemorial.


-Herodotus,
Ancient Greek Historian








Click above to read Bro. Tony Brown's Commentary




Prominent Bro.Tony Brown, national bestselling author, television host & producer of his own show
(Source: The Divine Nine, Written By Bro. Lawrence C. Ross, Jr.)









STOLEN LEGACY
Greek philosophy is somewhat of a drama, whose chief actors were Alexander the Great, Aristotle and his successors in the peripathetic school, and the Emperor Justinian. Alexander invaded Egypt and captured the Royal Library at Alexandria and plundered it. Aristotle made a library at Alexandria and plundered books, while his school occupied the building and used it as a research centre. Finally, Justinian, the Roman Emperor, abolished the Temples and schools of philosophy, i.e., another name for the Egyptian Mysteries, which the Greeks claimed as their product, and on account of which, they have been falsely praised and honored for centuries by the world, as its greatest philosophers and thinkers. This contribution to civilization was really and truly made by the Egyptians and the African continent, but not by the Greeks and the European continent.


-George G.M. James,
Black Historian-
This excerpt was taken from the late George GM James' now historic work "Stolen Legacy. " In it James proposed that the origins of Greek philosophy lay within Egyptian theology, what the Greeks called the Mysteries. His objectives, as he clearly stated, were as follows: 1.)To prove that Greek philosophy was a misnomer; 2.) To demonstrate the African origin of the Mysteries Schools; and 3.)To create a social reformation through the new philosophy of African redemption. The far reaching implications of Professor James' brilliant work is staggering. For if the origins of Greek/Classical/Hellenist thought originated in Egypt then the foundation of Western Civilization (from Greece to Rome to Europe to America) lays in Africa. Further still do the implications go when one journeys to the heart of Africa to find the origins of Egyptian civilization. Pictured above is the Greek conqueror Alexander the Great. A student of the famed Aristotle, he invaded Egypt and plundered her libraries. So impressed was the young Alexander with Egypt that he renounced his own father and claimed descendancy from the Black Egyptian god, Amen. In this coin he goes as far as to wear the ram horns, symbolic of Amen.


Within ancient Kemet (Egypt) these institutions, which the ancient Greeks would call "Mystery Schools," flourished. Pictured above is the Great Temple of Abu Simbel built by the Pharaoh Ramses II in Nubia as a dedication to Amen.These age old African rights of passages were usually done in a gender segregated manner; men had their own groups and women the same. The initiates were separated from their family and society in general. Though the rituals varied, their multi-faceted purpose of preparing one for manhood/womanhood, the maintenance of societal structure, and the salvation/purification/upliftment of the soul remained ever present. Thus when one first began on this path of self transformation one was said to "die" in an effort to shed one's self of his/her former life. Selected teachers/elders took one through the rituals which may have lasted days, weeks, months, or years. During this period secrecy was a must. And the initiate was taught as much by obtaining a new secret name, handshake, passwords and the like which would help him/her along his/her journey. The rituals were of a mental and physical nature. Various tasks and obstacles were put in front of the initiated in an effort to strengthen his/her resolve. Thus was the initiate expected to overcome struggle, overcome fear, remain steadfast in his/her goal, find understanding, experience triumph and earn the right of manhood/womanhood, societal acceptance, spiritual salvation, etc.


It is from these great and ancient sarced and secret societies that the modern African-lettered fraternities and sororities were founded. Like George GM James stated of Greek philosophy, the Greek letters used by Black fraternities and sororities is a misnomer. For though the letters used were Greek, the founders of these organizations understood well their African lineage and origins. Thus the letters masked an even deeper meaning rooted in Africa itself. One need only look at the;


mystic Sphinx (Her-Em-Akhet) of Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity, Inc.;
the sacred ivy of Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Inc.;
the magical blue of Phi Beta Sigma Fraternity, Inc.;
the pyramids and elephants of Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Inc.;
the magical lamp of Omega Psi Phi Fraternity, Inc.
and a host of other sacred symbols shared by all Black Fraternities and Sororities.


When all is said and done we are Africans sharing in a heritage that reaches back to the beginning of time itself.
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Old 01-08-2011, 12:28 AM   #46
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Beware of Greeks bearing culture - African roots of classical Greek civilization
Science News, Dec 7, 1991 by Ron Bower

12Next
With the publication earlier this year of the second volume of his book Black Athena (Rutgers University Press), Martin Bernal assumed a major role in the ongoing scholarly debate over the roots of Western civilization. In a packed convention hall, Bernal, or Cornell University, elaborated his thesis -- buttressed with linguistic, archaeological and historical evidence -- that Egyptian and Phoenician cultures greatly influenced the rise of Greek civilization beginning around 3,000 years ago.

The notion that Greek gods, language, technology and political life derived from African and Semitic peoples, either through the borrowing and adaptation of ideas or through military conquest, held sway among historians until the 1820s, Bernal argues. At that point, the "ancient model" gave way to the assumption that white, Indo-European speakers from the north, known as Aryans, conquered Greece and endowed it with civilization. Several factors spurred the sudden academic change of heart, Bernal asserts: racism toward Africans; prejudice toward non-Christians; a widespread belief that Greece represented a formative stage of later European civilization, in contrast to the separate , more advanced Egyptian culture; and popular philosophical arguments that people living in cold climates achieved the greatest intelligence and morality. Racism still fuels academic neglect of Egyptian and Phoenician influence on Greek culture, Bernal contends.

In Bernal's opinion, ancient Egyptians did not belong to a "black race," although they lived in Africa. "Race is a social construct," he maintains. Egyptians carried a mix of physical features from Africa, Asia and the Mediterranean, making the title of his book somewhat misleading, Bernal acknowledges.

"My enemy is not Europe, but the concept of 'pure' civilizations," he contends. "The mixture of different influences has served as the creative force behind all civilizations, including those of Egypt and Greece."

COPYRIGHT 1991 Science Service, Inc.
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Old 01-08-2011, 12:35 AM   #47
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The Nigerian/Ethiopian Roots Of the Ancient Greeks – Edited By – Jide Uwechia

Ethiopian Greek
Genetic Evidence of the Nigerian and Ethiopian Origin of the Ancient Greek
Edited By Jide Uwechia from cited Sources

The Benin Haplogroup or Haplogroup 19 Common in Africans, southern Greeks, Sicilians, and Albanians

There are at least four distinct African, (known as Senegal, Congo, Benin, Bantu Hbs Haplogroups) and one Asian chromosomal backgrounds (haplotypes) on which the sickle cell mutation has arisen.

The Benin haplotype (which originates from Nigeria, West Africa) accounts for HbS associated chromosomes in Sicily Northern Greece, Southern Turkey, and South West Saudi Arabia, suggesting that these genes had their origin in West Africa. The Asian haplotype is rarely encountered outside its geographic origin because there have been few large population movements and Indian emigrants have been predominantly from non HbS containing populations. Per:Graham R. Serjeant, MD, FRCP, The Geography Of Sickle Cell Disease:Opportunities For Understanding Its DiversityRSITY: http://www.kfshrc.edu.sa/annals/143/rev9239.html

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Nigeria, west Africa appears the most logical origin of the sickle mutation in Greece evidence from beta S globin gene cluster polymorphisms (1991). It has been conclusively demonstrated that HbS in Greece is mostly haplotype #19 (the one that originated in Benin, Nigeria West Africa). See, Boussiou M, Loukopoulos D, Christakis J, Fessas P.; The origin of the sickle mutation in Greece; evidence from beta S globin gene cluster polymorphisms. Unit for Prenatal Diagnosis, Laikon Hospital, Athens, Greece.



Additionally, previous data suggest that the S/Bantu haplotype (from Southern Africa) is heterogeneous at the molecular level. Recent studies also report a similar heterogenity for the Benin Haplogroup. A study demonstrated the presence of the A -499 TA variation in sickle cell anemia chromosomes of Sicilian and North African origin bearing the S/Benin haplotype (from Nigeria). Being absent from North American S/Benin chromosomes, which were studied previously, this variation is indicative for the molecular heterogeneity of the S/Benin haplotype. Am. J. Hematol. 80:79-80, 2005.

A study was done in Albania (which borders Greece) relating to sickle cell anemia, sickle cell beta-thalassemia, and thalassemia major in Albania. The focus of the study was the characterization of sickle cell mutations. As one would expect, it was shown that the HbS mutation in the Albanian sample is the Benin (Nigeria)-originating haplotype #19. See, Boletini E, Svobodova M, Divoky V, Baysal E, Dimovski AJ, Liang R, Adekile AD, Huisman TH.; Sickle cell anemia, sickle cell beta-thalassemia, and thalassemia major in Albania: characterization of mutations. : Hum Genet. 1994 Feb;93(2):182-7.

According to a study done in 1973, before the availablity of the advanced data cited above, “the occurrence of the sickle-cell trait in southern Europe …. is believed to reflect gene flow from the Middle East.” See A. P. GELPI, M.D, “Migrant Populations and the Diffusion of the Sickle-Cell Gene” August 1, 1973 vol. 79 no. 2 258-264 http://www.annals.org/content/79/2/258.abstract.

The problem with this 1973 study is that it assumes that the sickle cell genes came with the Arabs. Alas, updated research work has proven beyond doubt that the sickle cell genes proven to exist in southern Europe are exclusively Sickle cell gene Haplotype 19 or the Benin Sickle cell gene from Nigeria.

Y Haplogroup E-M78 and YAP In Black Africans and Greeks

Y Haplogroup E-M78 a derivative of E3B is a signature African gene as confirmed in research studies over the last few years. The high frequency of this haplogroup in Greece suggests the presence of a substantive African population in that region during prehistoric and historical time periods.

A recent paper has detected clades of haplogroups J and E3b that were likely not part of pre-historic migrations into Europe, but rather spread by later historical movements. Greeks ….. [then there is] the marker J-M267, which may reflect more recent Middle Eastern admixture.”

(Semino et al., Am J Hum Genet, 2004) E3b originates from East Africa while there is a high frequency of J-M267 in the East Coast of Africa as well as the Red sea coast of Arabia.

A recent sampling of the Greek population comprised 36 Peloponnesian samples, 5 of which were J-M172(xM12) and 17 of which were E-M78 (R.K., unpublished data).

In spite of the small Peloponnesian sample size, the high E-M78 frequency (47%) observed here is consistent with that (44%) independently found in the same region (Di Giacomo et al. 2003) for the YAP chromosomes harboring microsatellite haplotypes A. (Novelletto, personal communication) (Cruciani et al. 2004).

The study by by Di Giacomo et al. found the following African haplogroups in Greeks: Haplogroup A which is highly specific to West Africa, R1a, DE, and J2*(xDYS413= 18)J*(xJ2). R1* which probably gave rise to R1a is found in Northern Cameroon. DE is found principally among Nigerians and it is suspected that it originated from Nigeria. J is very prominent in East, and North Africa.

High-resolution Y-chromosome haplotyping and particular microsatellite associations reveal … an East Africa homeland for E-M78.Origin. See Ornella Semino, Chiara Magri, et al “Diffusion, and Differentiation of Y-Chromosome Haplogroups E and J: Inferences on the Neolithization of Europe and Later Migratory Events in the Mediterranean Area” http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/art...medid=15069642

HLA Genetic Relationship Between Ancient Greeks and Black Africans

HLA genes are reliable markers of past population movement and are still used in laboratories today to establish genetic inter-relationship amongst seemingly diverse peoples.

HLA genes in Macedonians and the sub-Saharan origin of the Greeks (2001) was a study conducted by Dr. Arniaz and other scholars in a top flying Spanish University. This study uses HLA genes to establish the African dimension of the roots of ancient Greece.

According to the Arniaz study, …..Greeks are found to have a substantial relatedness to sub-Saharan (Ethiopian) people, which separate them from other Mediterranean groups. Both Greeks and Ethiopians share quasi-specific DRB1 alleles, such as *0305, *0307, *0411, *0413, *0416, *0417, *0420, *1110, *1112, *1304 and *1310. Genetic distances are closer between Greeks and Ethiopian/sub-Saharan groups than to any other Mediterranean group and finally Greeks cluster with Ethiopians/sub-Saharans in both neighbour joining dendrograms and correspondence analyses. The time period when these relationships might have occurred was ancient but uncertain and might be related to the displacement of Egyptian-Ethiopian people living in pharaonic Egypt. See Arnaiz-Villena A,et.al: HLA genes in Macedonians and the sub-Saharan origin of the Greeks. Tissue Antigens. 2001 Feb;57(2):118-27

There is a fraudulent claim (by those with idealogical investments in the topic) on the Internet that this study has been “retracted” or “refuted.” The study is perfectly valid. Sub-Saharan-specific and quasi-sub-Saharan-specific alleles were definitely detected in the Greek population at the DRB1 locus, and this is not open to question.

It would be helpful here to discuss the study that was retracted, and the reason why. It is the work titled: “The origin of Palestinians and their genetic relatedness with other Mediterranean
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Old 01-08-2011, 12:42 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Akzion View Post

I’m in white race (though I know you don’t believe me). I tried to find some tool in the internet, or some paper that measures or categorises the colour of the skin
Again, this has nothing to do with Modern Greece. If you in your imagination want to associate with Ancient Hellenes, Then be my guest. But you can't pick and choose what you take.

Just remember, at the end of the day, its only in your imagination. You are not related to the "Garamantes" or their descendants the "Carians". Nor would you be related to the new comers Arian Hellenes (who ever they were) that had to acquaint themselves with the original ocupiers "Negros". Just like you would need to acquaint your self to unfamiliar people at a party when you finally arrive.

Regarding the problem you have finding a tool or some paper that measures or categorises the colour of skin? well i think you are exaggerating. All you need is eyes and a mirror. But if you were to try and explain it on paper for future generations to understand, why don't you do it like the Ancient people did.

This below is work from Scholars who viewed and deciphered the original Ancient Writing. I don't expect you to understand the original script, (for your language has more Turkish and Macedonian words in it than Ancient Greek) But they do translate it, so we all can understand.


GREEK DESCRIPTIONS OF NEGROES

The Classical Greeks most commonly described Negroes as “Ethiopians”, or

In Diod. Sic. 3.8.2, Tetr. 2.2, and Strabo 15.1.24, Sext. Empiric. Adv. Ethicos, In Herodotus 7.70,43 for example, is associated with black skin, woolly hair, and a flat nose.

Herodotus even differentiates between the woolly-haired and the straight-haired Ethiopians, in relation to each other from West to East; which we today know is the result of Arabic/Semitic admixture.

In Arr. An. 5.4.4. Aristot. Probl. 10.66.698B., an Ethiopian’s skin is called the blackest in the world.

Lucian Adv. Indoctum 28. notes the proverbial

which means to “wash an Ethiopian white”.

When the Greeks wanted to illustrate blackness of color, they often selected the Ethiopian for this purpose. (Lucian Bis. Acc. 6. In which reference is made to tanning the skin until it resembles an Ethiopian’s, and Ach. Tat. 4.5.2, in which mention is made of a flower among the Greeks as dark as an Ethiopian’s skin.
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Old 01-08-2011, 12:42 AM   #49
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So after all that you can still deny & lie about it.The truth is you still keep doing the same thing & that is lying & denying that your roots are african.
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Old 01-08-2011, 01:11 AM   #50
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i am very sure that the population what is called by some sources "Ancient Greeks", was mixure of African and Asian settlers, mixed with small part of the Natives.

But i extremely disagree with some afro-centrists and other scientist and "scientist", that the Pelasgians were Black.

I mean, i dont have anything against any race, but to call "group of Black Tribes" those who in their name have the colour they had - Pel / Bel, is at least unserious...
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