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Old 09-10-2018, 08:10 AM   #1
Carlin15
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Default Non, the Gauls are the not real ancestors of the French

https://www.thelocal.fr/20160922/whe...ally-come-from

Nicolas Sarkozy reckons the real ancestors of France were the Gauls, but historians have lined up to put him in his place.

Immigrants granted citizenship in France must accept that their “ancestors are Gauls”, who inhabited the territory now known as France during the Iron Age and Roman period.

At least that’s what ex-president and possible future president Nicolas Sarkozy believes.

The man vying for France’s top job once again did not explain how exactly immigrants would be forced to accept their “Gaulois” ancestry. Possibly by swearing on a copy of an Asterix comic book?

But while his words were clearly part of his ongoing to campaign to convince voters, especially those on the far right, that he represents the real France, the comments prompted ire and ridicule among many.

Sarkozy, himself the son of a Hungarian aristocrat, was dubbed Sarkozix, in reference to the Asterix comic books that feature the village of Gauls fighting against the Romans.

Pictures were mocked up to transform the ex-president into a Gaul warrior and politicians happily jumped on the bandwagon.

“I also love Asterix but fortunately, France is a much broader concept than that particularly narrow vision,” said labour minister Myriam El-Khomri.

It was left to historians, politicians and newspaper editors to put Sarkozy right.

Laurent Joffrin, the editor of left wing Liberation newspaper said Sarkozy's comments were comic because: "Every serious historian knows that the Gauls are not 'our ancestors', but only our distant predecessors in the present territory of France".

One of those serious historians Benjamin Stora said: "Yes the Gauls are ancestors, but they are not the only ancestors of the French."

The word Gaul is a Roman invention which was used to designate certain areas,” he said. “Republican historians have shaped the representation of the Gauls as those resisting an invader, and it has been magnified.

“So it’s a fabrication, but then again what isn’t?” the historian added.

Another historian Mathilde Larrére was furious and gave Sarkozy a history lesson in around 30 tweets.

“At the beginning Gaul was a Roman invention to designate a certain people who actually had little in common,” she told BFM TV.

“The Gauls did not exist as such by themselves. It was Caesar who called them that. It was a group of people who occasionally united, who would believe in the same gods, who had druids, but they didn’t represent a homogenous group,” she added.

Larrere added that the Germanic origins of the people of Alsace-Lorraine in the east, which was part of Germany from 1871 to the end of WW1, and the interbreeding during French colonization were just two reasons to complicate Sarkozy’s view of the past.

Another historian Dimitri Casali said the Gauls were the “base of the French population because there were around eight to nine million around the time of Vercingetorix”, the king and chieftain who united the Gauls in revolt against Roman forces.

Casali said it would be more accurate to talk of “Gallo-Romans” because there were “successive waves of invasions and migrations”.

France’s own minister of education Najat- Vallaud-Belkacem weighed into the row and suggested Sarkozy was in need of a history lesson.

She pointed out the reality of the origins of the French population today.

“Yes, among our ancestors there are the Gauls, but there are also Romans, Normans, Celts, Burgundians,” she said.

“And in case he had forgotten, with time France has annexed other territories. The Niçois have joined us, the Corsicans, those in Franche-Comté, Guadeloupe, Martinique and then there’s the Arabs, the Italians and the Spanish.

“That’s what France is.”


Then there’s the Bretons, who mostly heralded from Celts who migrated from Great Britain, the Normans who came from the Vikings and the indigenous Basques in the south west of France.

And the Franks, the Germanic tribes that conquered much of French territory and gave the country it's name
.

"And those from the Antilles and Guyana are French through ten generations but their ancestors are not really the Gauls," tweeted historian and writer Claude Ribbe.

One historian Suzanne Citron was not surprised that Sarkozy might have uttered such a statement given that in one of the most important school history textbooks used in the past are the words: “In the past, our country was called Gaul and its inhabitants, the Gauls”.

Citron says the “fantastical” idea of a pure ethnic Gallic race being the founders of the true French is damaging as it “denies the racial and cultural diversity that constantly accompanied the historical creation of France.”

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Old 12-19-2018, 12:40 AM   #2
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In light of John Melville-Jones' "pamphlet/arguments" regarding Macedonians I will (may) be adding more quotes or articles here, time-permitting.



URL:
https://www.jstor.org/stable/1346655...n_tab_contents

Italy as a "geographical expression"... Sound familiar?

URL:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Padanian_nationalism

Padanian nationalism is an ideology and a regionalist movement demanding more autonomy, or even independence from Italy, for Padania or Northern Italy.

Lega Nord, a federation of regional parties of Northern Italy, is the main political proponent of Padania, although there are some other minor Padanian nationalist parties (such as Lega Padana, Lega Padana Lombardia/Padanian Union and the Alpine Padanian Union).

In 1996 a short-lived separatist-Padanist movement, the Padanian Independentist Movement, was formed in Veneto and the Federal Republic of Padania was proclaimed. Another one, Veneto Padanian Federal Republic, emerged in 1999 and lasted only a few years.

There are also some intellectuals (such as Gilberto Oneto, Giancarlo Pagliarini, Leonardo Facco and the late Gianfranco Miglio), who broke with the League but have continued to be keen Padanists. In January 2012 Gianluca Marchi, a former editor of La Padania, launched L'Indipendenza, an online newspaper, as the voice of independent Padanism and Padanian libertarianism. Oneto, Pagliarini and Facco were all contributing editors of the new paper.

Lega Nord unilaterally proclaimed the independence of Padania on 15 September 1996 in Venice, but since then has come back to its original federalist credo, although the party constitution continues to declare that the independence of Padania is the party's final goal. In that occasion Umberto Bossi, the leader of Lega Nord, while reading the Padanian Declaration of Independence, echoing the United States Declaration of Independence, proclaimed:

"We the peoples of Padania solemnly declare that Padania is an independent and sovereign federal republic. We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honour."

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Old 12-19-2018, 01:17 AM   #3
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URL:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwpItgjtRio

Spanish parliament from Sept. 2017.

GABRIEL RUFIÁN, a Catalan, states that "Catalonia, simply wants - no more no less - to recover the country that was stolen 80 years ago," (he said this about the Civil War and the Franco regime, a continuous reference of the independence movement).

Starting at about minute 2:00 he calls Spain a "country of countries" and exclaims "¡VIVA CASTILLA LIBRE, ANDALUCIA LIBRE, GORA EUSKALHERRIA ASKATUTA (Basque country), GALIZA CEIBE! (Galicia)" The most interesting part of the video is from 1:48 to 2:16.

Anthem of Catalonia:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aU7HVR6YX0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VG0SBkQUA-A

Anthem of Galiza (Galicia):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtZQKM4TjB0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79zQny2L1tk


A Basque finishes his parliament speech brandishing the Basque flag in his hand and shouting: "Monarchy out, long live free and republican Euskal Herria!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G949jKAU2q4


Manuel José García Caparrós was shot and killed by Spanish Armed Police (when trying to raise an Andalusian flag in the City of Malaga) during the mass demonstrations of Andalusians on December 4, 1977 in favor of the autonomy of Andalusia. The demonstrations were crushed by the Spanish Police. Song dedicated to Caparrós, and Andalusia:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGlYR8fYjKE

Old Video of mass demonstrations throughout Andalusia - 350,000 turned out in Sevilla alone waiving Andalusian flags:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVmulG5gbF8

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